I mean no offense...I am truly interested in some forthright responses.
I've been lurking for a while and I've come away with the impression that there are a lot of people here who are WAY outside the mainstream. Maybe that is the point of a site with "Extreme" in its name. I think I have seen people discuss living in a car, going without hot water, eating really strangely, compromising their hygene, giving up their pets...all on purpose just to be able to quit their jobs.
How bad were these jobs??!! I mean, I would rather ride my bike and play all day, but not if it meant living a nearly homeless lifestyle. I actually am saving a lot of my income with the plan of an early retirement, though I guess not an extreme one.
So....for those of you who are truly extreme...did you find NO satisfaction in your working years? Do you think it would have been different if you had taken a different career path. It seems like there are a lot pf people here who must be REALLY focused, yet they never figured out a way to be something other than miserable in their jobs/careers.
I'd like to hear what some of you did (or do) and whether you feel like your time spent working had (has) any redeeming quality at all.
Again, I mean no offense. I'm clearly pretty mainstream compared to you folks, though most Americans would think that MY rate of savings and my lack of consumerism are pretty radical. I just happen to like my career enough that I don't want to give it up if i have to live in the way that some folks here describe it.
Do (or did) you find NO value/satisfaction in working
@Mike,
Some (House) Rules for ERE:
1. Develop a very-thick skin (no, seriously!) - so relax, no offence taken.
2. Labels are funny: helpful when you're learning the walk but a hindrance afterwards. All I am trying to say is that labels vary (a lot) with context
. E.g: I personally find Jacob's approach to ER normal and not extreme (since I was already practising many of them even before I discovered his blog) but the blog's title is a reflection of how most others see it 
.
3. Speaking of labels: Most discussions on work in this forum invariably begin/end with "The Gervais Principle". I suggest you have a quick look at it. I've written a brief summary for quick comprehension, on my blog. The link to the original article on Gervais principle (which took on a life of its own) is on my post if you're further interested.
More on this story, later.
Some (House) Rules for ERE:
1. Develop a very-thick skin (no, seriously!) - so relax, no offence taken.
2. Labels are funny: helpful when you're learning the walk but a hindrance afterwards. All I am trying to say is that labels vary (a lot) with context
. E.g: I personally find Jacob's approach to ER normal and not extreme (since I was already practising many of them even before I discovered his blog) but the blog's title is a reflection of how most others see it .3. Speaking of labels: Most discussions on work in this forum invariably begin/end with "The Gervais Principle". I suggest you have a quick look at it. I've written a brief summary for quick comprehension, on my blog. The link to the original article on Gervais principle (which took on a life of its own) is on my post if you're further interested.
More on this story, later.
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George the original one
- Posts: 5406
- Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am
- Location: Wettest corner of Orygun
Interesting question...
I'm 14-yrs late for becoming extreme, but if I'd had understood how savings rate affects that freedom goal, my work-life was sucking badly enough that I would have begun a full-blown extreme lifestyle then.
What would drive me to that frame of mind? Incredible idiocy of management and the politics of internal customer support and dealing with a few incompetent coworkers.
At the moment, my immediate supervisor is good, a smart pragmaticist who picks his battles. The senior manager is savvy and not on a power trip. This helps me tolerate what I know are going to be a few more years of slogging since it's imperative that I be working at least until my mother passes away in case she outlives her money (she's 91) and needs financial support.
So why don't I go full extreme now? Because I have a precious spouse that I'd rather not create excessive friction... she'll go along with most any plan to see me retire soon and we've even considered living out of an RV, but decided it isn't for us since we like western Oregon and having indoor space during the rainy season to avoid getting cabin fever.
I'm 14-yrs late for becoming extreme, but if I'd had understood how savings rate affects that freedom goal, my work-life was sucking badly enough that I would have begun a full-blown extreme lifestyle then.
What would drive me to that frame of mind? Incredible idiocy of management and the politics of internal customer support and dealing with a few incompetent coworkers.
At the moment, my immediate supervisor is good, a smart pragmaticist who picks his battles. The senior manager is savvy and not on a power trip. This helps me tolerate what I know are going to be a few more years of slogging since it's imperative that I be working at least until my mother passes away in case she outlives her money (she's 91) and needs financial support.
So why don't I go full extreme now? Because I have a precious spouse that I'd rather not create excessive friction... she'll go along with most any plan to see me retire soon and we've even considered living out of an RV, but decided it isn't for us since we like western Oregon and having indoor space during the rainy season to avoid getting cabin fever.
I am just the opposite of your post. I am retired ( a full year now) and I am not all that sure I like it. This is because I have always "felt" retired. However, there is a law of retirement:
If one is going to retire from working, one must give up one's job sooner or later.
There is a reason for the law. We reach a point in life where "time" is of greater value than "money". I reached that point in age. But, as I said in another post, I don't spend my day pitching playing cards at a hat. So I "cheat" and work, either for, or not for, money. In other words, I do as I please, day in and day out. No concrete obligations. Money, in and of itself, is a non-governing factor in my life.
As to answer your question, I dearly loved all my working life.
I thought long and hard, and was in and out of giving it up. We don't run short of vigor, aggressiveness, desire, anticipation, eagerness, or want-to. We do, though, run out of time. Time left, is the "gold" of old age.
Nice to have you on the forum!
If one is going to retire from working, one must give up one's job sooner or later.
There is a reason for the law. We reach a point in life where "time" is of greater value than "money". I reached that point in age. But, as I said in another post, I don't spend my day pitching playing cards at a hat. So I "cheat" and work, either for, or not for, money. In other words, I do as I please, day in and day out. No concrete obligations. Money, in and of itself, is a non-governing factor in my life.
As to answer your question, I dearly loved all my working life.
I thought long and hard, and was in and out of giving it up. We don't run short of vigor, aggressiveness, desire, anticipation, eagerness, or want-to. We do, though, run out of time. Time left, is the "gold" of old age.
Nice to have you on the forum!
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dot_com_vet
- Posts: 603
- Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:07 am
I think people here are more mainstream than you'd think.
I love my current job, and wouldn't dream of giving it up. But I plan on ER when the next huge shift in the economy requires it. (I saw a lot of factory workers in the neighborhood have to go ER once the plants moved to Mexico.)
My previous job involved a ton of on call duty. I'd dream of getting paged and physically start to get dressed. That was pretty bad.
I love my current job, and wouldn't dream of giving it up. But I plan on ER when the next huge shift in the economy requires it. (I saw a lot of factory workers in the neighborhood have to go ER once the plants moved to Mexico.)
My previous job involved a ton of on call duty. I'd dream of getting paged and physically start to get dressed. That was pretty bad.
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jacob
- Site Admin
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- Contact:
@floridamike - After 10 years (depending on how you count) in the same career (nuclear astrophysics) I was getting bored just repeating variations of what I had already done. The challenge had reduced to ... okay, you spent 3 years developing a model for this kind of star, good for you; now spend the next 3 years developing another model for this other kind of star. And so on. For me, though, after having met a challenge, it wouldn't be much of a challenge to repeat a variation of the previous challenge. I would have found no satisfaction in continuing that exercise for the next 30 years. I wanted a new challenge.
There are few things worse than being in a rut. This is also the reason for all the idiosyncratic lifestyle choices. I don't take cold showers to save 5 bucks. I do it as a challenge and for the other benefits (cold tolerance). I didn't retire or become financially independent at 33/30 because I hated work---I saw it as a problem to be solved, and it was solved. I now live on $7k a year (6k needs, 1k wants); but my current self-challenge is to pay for nothing except rent and health insurance. It's not going to save me a whole lot of money, but it's interesting [to me]. It's an excuse to learn lots of different skills.
So no, I don't hate work---after all I was spending 100 hours per week when I designed my first stellar model. I hate being bored.
Note: I do hate careerism and the petty politics that often manifest itself once it becomes hard to differentiate value. Also, I'm more of a visionary/technician than a salesman/manager, so when my projects turn into the latter, I tend to abandon them for something else.
There are few things worse than being in a rut. This is also the reason for all the idiosyncratic lifestyle choices. I don't take cold showers to save 5 bucks. I do it as a challenge and for the other benefits (cold tolerance). I didn't retire or become financially independent at 33/30 because I hated work---I saw it as a problem to be solved, and it was solved. I now live on $7k a year (6k needs, 1k wants); but my current self-challenge is to pay for nothing except rent and health insurance. It's not going to save me a whole lot of money, but it's interesting [to me]. It's an excuse to learn lots of different skills.
So no, I don't hate work---after all I was spending 100 hours per week when I designed my first stellar model. I hate being bored.
Note: I do hate careerism and the petty politics that often manifest itself once it becomes hard to differentiate value. Also, I'm more of a visionary/technician than a salesman/manager, so when my projects turn into the latter, I tend to abandon them for something else.
I don't really view ERE as a means of getting to ride my bike all day. For me, there are a few reasons for pursuing FI at an accelerated pace:
1. I'm pretty risk averse. One thing I've figured out of the past few years is that employment in a steady job is not at all guaranteed, even if you love your job. I would rather be able to pull the rug out from under my job than the other way around.
2. I have a variety of skills/interests that have potential for income generation. To make a full-time (even ERE) living on any of them, I'd have to put in some time of no/close to no return on my efforts. Reaching ERE means I'd have the freedom to do that without having to take out a loan, max my credit cards, whatever.
3. I haven't quite hit the point of "not challenged" that Jacob mentions, but I can definitely feel it coming. ERE means that when that point comes, I can quit if I want to.
You'll notice also that people are all going about pursuing ERE in slightly different ways. If you really can't give up hot showers, you probably won't have to--it's all about priorities.
1. I'm pretty risk averse. One thing I've figured out of the past few years is that employment in a steady job is not at all guaranteed, even if you love your job. I would rather be able to pull the rug out from under my job than the other way around.
2. I have a variety of skills/interests that have potential for income generation. To make a full-time (even ERE) living on any of them, I'd have to put in some time of no/close to no return on my efforts. Reaching ERE means I'd have the freedom to do that without having to take out a loan, max my credit cards, whatever.
3. I haven't quite hit the point of "not challenged" that Jacob mentions, but I can definitely feel it coming. ERE means that when that point comes, I can quit if I want to.
You'll notice also that people are all going about pursuing ERE in slightly different ways. If you really can't give up hot showers, you probably won't have to--it's all about priorities.
Good points folks,
Yep, I like to reassure you that we (all) don't post our replies from a cold-war nuclear bunker in the middle of the woods. We have our own choice bones to pick about various things around us, but all of us all fairly mainstream (in a very qualified way).
This topic has been discussed fairly on and off in the forum. I will lay out the broad consensus on "work" here from my memory of those chats. Let me see how my memory recall works. Others may feel free to add more as they feel.
1. Most of us that gravitate to FI/ER start to view work as a means to an end. No more, no less.
2. "Work" (of any kind) loses its sheen with the passage of time - @Chad pointed out from personal experience somewhere that even the neglected yet 'interesting' "trades" jobs become as mind numbing as a cubicle job with the passage of time.
3. The concept/idea that dominates "Why one needs to work as per certain set of rules" is flawed to a large extent. Most of us don't drink this kool-aid.
a. Modern workplace definition likes to use "climb the corporate ladder" whereas it is really a "pyramid" :-O.
b. If you win the 'job lottery' you'll find yourself in the right place at the right time with promotions, perks, hikes etc.... else bad luck, matey! E.g: Early IT boom in Ireland, India, "Asian tigers" job boom, etc. So, don't pin too much hopes on what "they" tell you about work.
c. The dominance of Calvinist work ethic in the populace's collective conscious and successive brainwashing by the Druckers of this world ("building a cathedral"). This one's my pet peeve; If it's a consensus, well and good.
4. Everyone realises that their interests change every 10 years. Several factors conspire in keeping them from following up on their epiphany.
As George/Jacob point out, it is also a lottery if you find a workplace that isn't soul-destroying. Most if not all work environments are more about coffee-break politics, 'soft-skills', salesmanship about "how you do the same as everyone else, but differently!" etc., etc., than your doing any meaningful work. High specialisation and job automation has made this a more or less one-way street. But, YMMV. Recent news articles also confirm that bad job affects mental health more than unemployment does. "Success at work" if there is such a thing largely depends on cynically gaming the system. If you agree with this, do your best under your personal circumstances to lie low and escape with your heart and soul intact. If you do not agree with this, hey, good for you. Wish you the Best of Luck with your future endeavours.
The demographics of the forum ranges from those starting universities to those who finished their work life in the conventional sense. Good to know that people wake up to smell the roses before losing their health in the rat-race.
There's a very interesting recent thread on "talk me out of art school" that's also relevant to this topic. Search for it in the forums.
Personal note: I don't hold a 9-5 job any more and I am into social entrepreneurship now. The last two jobs I held were pretty miserable to the point of ruining my health. A lot of such jobs do exist - and they're reasonably well paying too! So, I appreciate it when others tell me they've had a good innings. But I still think that it is a lottery they've won.
Yep, I like to reassure you that we (all) don't post our replies from a cold-war nuclear bunker in the middle of the woods
. We have our own choice bones to pick about various things around us, but all of us all fairly mainstream (in a very qualified way). This topic has been discussed fairly on and off in the forum. I will lay out the broad consensus on "work" here from my memory of those chats. Let me see how my memory recall works. Others may feel free to add more as they feel.
1. Most of us that gravitate to FI/ER start to view work as a means to an end. No more, no less.
2. "Work" (of any kind) loses its sheen with the passage of time - @Chad pointed out from personal experience somewhere that even the neglected yet 'interesting' "trades" jobs become as mind numbing as a cubicle job with the passage of time.
3. The concept/idea that dominates "Why one needs to work as per certain set of rules" is flawed to a large extent. Most of us don't drink this kool-aid.
a. Modern workplace definition likes to use "climb the corporate ladder" whereas it is really a "pyramid" :-O.
b. If you win the 'job lottery' you'll find yourself in the right place at the right time with promotions, perks, hikes etc.... else bad luck, matey! E.g: Early IT boom in Ireland, India, "Asian tigers" job boom, etc. So, don't pin too much hopes on what "they" tell you about work.
c. The dominance of Calvinist work ethic in the populace's collective conscious and successive brainwashing by the Druckers of this world ("building a cathedral"). This one's my pet peeve; If it's a consensus, well and good.
4. Everyone realises that their interests change every 10 years. Several factors conspire in keeping them from following up on their epiphany.
As George/Jacob point out, it is also a lottery if you find a workplace that isn't soul-destroying. Most if not all work environments are more about coffee-break politics, 'soft-skills', salesmanship about "how you do the same as everyone else, but differently!" etc., etc., than your doing any meaningful work. High specialisation and job automation has made this a more or less one-way street. But, YMMV. Recent news articles also confirm that bad job affects mental health more than unemployment does. "Success at work" if there is such a thing largely depends on cynically gaming the system. If you agree with this, do your best under your personal circumstances to lie low and escape with your heart and soul intact. If you do not agree with this, hey, good for you. Wish you the Best of Luck with your future endeavours.
The demographics of the forum ranges from those starting universities to those who finished their work life in the conventional sense. Good to know that people wake up to smell the roses before losing their health in the rat-race.
There's a very interesting recent thread on "talk me out of art school" that's also relevant to this topic. Search for it in the forums.
Personal note: I don't hold a 9-5 job any more and I am into social entrepreneurship now. The last two jobs I held were pretty miserable to the point of ruining my health. A lot of such jobs do exist - and they're reasonably well paying too! So, I appreciate it when others tell me they've had a good innings. But I still think that it is a lottery they've won.
Are these articles relevant to this discussion here? I don't know. But, FWIW:
1. An article written by an Indian(*), on the morality of work/career choices, who's now gone on to work for grassroots education.
(*) He was a chartered accountant, he worked for various CA firms and an international auditing firm (it remains nameless). He went to work for an international NGO, then at a school near Pune and now works with tribals in Madhya Pradesh.
2. Bill Watterson's convocation speech on career/work etc.
1. An article written by an Indian(*), on the morality of work/career choices, who's now gone on to work for grassroots education.
(*) He was a chartered accountant, he worked for various CA firms and an international auditing firm (it remains nameless). He went to work for an international NGO, then at a school near Pune and now works with tribals in Madhya Pradesh.
2. Bill Watterson's convocation speech on career/work etc.
What's our motivation to do this? Here's mine:
The reason I do this is simple. I want freedom and I don't need much in life, materially. My biggest expense is still my meat-eating and I won't give it up. I guess it's about giving up pointless consumption and trading it for free time. Everyone will need to figure out what he's willing to give up for more time. It's an exercise in determining your values, when you boil it all down. It gives you more choice. Again picking me as an example. I chose to basically keep my student's expenses while earning an engineer's income. Apart from my excessive meat-consumption, I have very few expenses. And I would love to just spend a year lying on a beach and reading books and surfing. I would love to study philosophy, anthropology, psychology and, heck, why not even literature. I don't need a college or get a degree. Just give me the books and leave me alone. Let me do experiments in my basement. Let me talk to people in bars and pubs to figure out how they tick.
I'll have the rent-thing solved by the end of the year. Going from there I'll build my passive income more and more to cover food. The next thing is health insurance. Then come the few bullshit expenses I still have. I may or may not decide to quit my job once I've reached the point where my expenses are met by my passive income. The basic idea is for me is that this mode of living gives you more freedom from economic pressures.
I'd rather have that than a big-ass house with a big-ass car and fancy clothes, but - to be clear - that's just me. I simply don't see much value in wasting the only life I have working. Sure, my work is fine and I have great colleagues and a great boss. I'm in no place to complain, really.
Maybe my favourite youtube-video helps explain it a bit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4
It's not that I hate work, it's that I can think of better things to do with my life. I then just pick the sacrifices I'm willing to make.
The reason I do this is simple. I want freedom and I don't need much in life, materially. My biggest expense is still my meat-eating and I won't give it up. I guess it's about giving up pointless consumption and trading it for free time. Everyone will need to figure out what he's willing to give up for more time. It's an exercise in determining your values, when you boil it all down. It gives you more choice. Again picking me as an example. I chose to basically keep my student's expenses while earning an engineer's income. Apart from my excessive meat-consumption, I have very few expenses. And I would love to just spend a year lying on a beach and reading books and surfing. I would love to study philosophy, anthropology, psychology and, heck, why not even literature. I don't need a college or get a degree. Just give me the books and leave me alone. Let me do experiments in my basement. Let me talk to people in bars and pubs to figure out how they tick.
I'll have the rent-thing solved by the end of the year. Going from there I'll build my passive income more and more to cover food. The next thing is health insurance. Then come the few bullshit expenses I still have. I may or may not decide to quit my job once I've reached the point where my expenses are met by my passive income. The basic idea is for me is that this mode of living gives you more freedom from economic pressures.
I'd rather have that than a big-ass house with a big-ass car and fancy clothes, but - to be clear - that's just me. I simply don't see much value in wasting the only life I have working. Sure, my work is fine and I have great colleagues and a great boss. I'm in no place to complain, really.
Maybe my favourite youtube-video helps explain it a bit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4
It's not that I hate work, it's that I can think of better things to do with my life. I then just pick the sacrifices I'm willing to make.
I hated work.
I enjoy working on my own projects though, so I think it's more fair to say that I hated having a job, not work itself.
I would just feel like a prisoner when I was there. Doubly so when I would get an email or phone call when I was at home, usually for something frivolous, supposedly when I was supposed to be enjoying my free time.
I've worked as a prosecutor, utility lineman, freelance programmer, hotel night clerk, English teacher, tour guide, puppeteer, amusement park performer, lifeguard, landscaper and janitor. Maybe there's something else I should try?
Combine my distaste for work with an interest in monasticism, asceticism, environmentalism, cheap hobbies and simple living and you have a recipe for ERE.
There were some redeeming things about work. But only a few. Watching my savings pile up fast was fun. I enjoyed learning new things about how certain processes, technologies and business models work. But after the first year or so I stopped learning new things and started just going through the motions. I did enjoy a lot of the people I worked with. I'm still good friends with lots of them. I liked seeing them everyday and swapping stories.
I tried to intrinsically enjoy my work. Focusing on how I was helping people, doing good, taking pride in the care I would give my craft. But that didn't really work.
I'm now working on rehabbing a home and becoming a landlord. As a job, it's fairly enjoyable so far. No boss, no deadlines, no meetings, no set hours, and I'm still in the phase where I'm learning a lot. But soon I'm sure I'm going to find myself dry walling a new property and wishing I was out hiking instead. I am hopeful in the long run that I can keep my property management duties to fewer than 5 hours a week. I think I could enjoy being a relatively hands-off manager as a job. But even so, my long-term goal is to not even have to do that.
I enjoy working on my own projects though, so I think it's more fair to say that I hated having a job, not work itself.
I would just feel like a prisoner when I was there. Doubly so when I would get an email or phone call when I was at home, usually for something frivolous, supposedly when I was supposed to be enjoying my free time.
I've worked as a prosecutor, utility lineman, freelance programmer, hotel night clerk, English teacher, tour guide, puppeteer, amusement park performer, lifeguard, landscaper and janitor. Maybe there's something else I should try?
Combine my distaste for work with an interest in monasticism, asceticism, environmentalism, cheap hobbies and simple living and you have a recipe for ERE.
There were some redeeming things about work. But only a few. Watching my savings pile up fast was fun. I enjoyed learning new things about how certain processes, technologies and business models work. But after the first year or so I stopped learning new things and started just going through the motions. I did enjoy a lot of the people I worked with. I'm still good friends with lots of them. I liked seeing them everyday and swapping stories.
I tried to intrinsically enjoy my work. Focusing on how I was helping people, doing good, taking pride in the care I would give my craft. But that didn't really work.
I'm now working on rehabbing a home and becoming a landlord. As a job, it's fairly enjoyable so far. No boss, no deadlines, no meetings, no set hours, and I'm still in the phase where I'm learning a lot. But soon I'm sure I'm going to find myself dry walling a new property and wishing I was out hiking instead. I am hopeful in the long run that I can keep my property management duties to fewer than 5 hours a week. I think I could enjoy being a relatively hands-off manager as a job. But even so, my long-term goal is to not even have to do that.
I actually have a job with fulfilling work and a great work environment. I am getting to make the world a better place while I work at home with genuinely nice coworkers and direct supervisors (company politics is dumb sometimes, but you can't have everything). I think my problem is what Jacob said: I'm bored. I've been doing this 10 years. Now that I'm good enough to have a dream job in my chosen career, I no longer want it. I have several interesting hobbies I've put on hold for years to pursue this career. Suddenly I wonder if I'll ever get to explore my other interests while I'm still young enough to do so.
In the meantime, I'm paid more money than I can fathom spending. Why would I want the hassle of maintaining a big house when a small one fulfills my needs? I really do find riding my bike more pleasant than driving. I feel wasteful buying crap I don't need. I feel weak when I use a/c or too much heat. I enjoy cooking my own food.
ERE makes more sense to me than the default consumerist lifestyle does. Why should I consume things I neither want nor need?
In the meantime, I'm paid more money than I can fathom spending. Why would I want the hassle of maintaining a big house when a small one fulfills my needs? I really do find riding my bike more pleasant than driving. I feel wasteful buying crap I don't need. I feel weak when I use a/c or too much heat. I enjoy cooking my own food.
ERE makes more sense to me than the default consumerist lifestyle does. Why should I consume things I neither want nor need?
Really great thread here.
I grew up in a working class family of seven so frugality is like a second nature to me. I was always a big saver and when it occurred to me that if I saved enough money I could exit corporate America I was off and running; and I've never looked back.
Among the non mainstream things I do to keep from going back to corporate are having three drivers in our family and only two cars. Our daughter communtes to college in one vehicle and my wife and I share one. We both work part-time; her job carries health benefits for our family. I often bike around town and our cruising, Disney World days are done, thankfully. We paid off our house in a nice part of town very quickly and never moved into a McMansion like all of our peers. We've stayed married for soon-to-be 32 years and, with only a 6 year respite, have continued to live in our Great lakes town. We are definitely out of the "normal" lifestyle when compared with our peer group of college educated individuals. We don't even really go out to eat. People respect and like us but consider us a little odd.
The biggest hell in my life was being involved in corporate banking. Everything was predicated on increasing sales of bank products on a yearly quota of 15%-20%. Just undoable. Also staffing was constantly being cut so work loads were going up and free time was very limited. Add to the fact that I really didn't care for the people I was around all day made for a very good case to exit ASAP.
I really like work----I just hate jobs.
djc
I grew up in a working class family of seven so frugality is like a second nature to me. I was always a big saver and when it occurred to me that if I saved enough money I could exit corporate America I was off and running; and I've never looked back.
Among the non mainstream things I do to keep from going back to corporate are having three drivers in our family and only two cars. Our daughter communtes to college in one vehicle and my wife and I share one. We both work part-time; her job carries health benefits for our family. I often bike around town and our cruising, Disney World days are done, thankfully. We paid off our house in a nice part of town very quickly and never moved into a McMansion like all of our peers. We've stayed married for soon-to-be 32 years and, with only a 6 year respite, have continued to live in our Great lakes town. We are definitely out of the "normal" lifestyle when compared with our peer group of college educated individuals. We don't even really go out to eat. People respect and like us but consider us a little odd.
The biggest hell in my life was being involved in corporate banking. Everything was predicated on increasing sales of bank products on a yearly quota of 15%-20%. Just undoable. Also staffing was constantly being cut so work loads were going up and free time was very limited. Add to the fact that I really didn't care for the people I was around all day made for a very good case to exit ASAP.
I really like work----I just hate jobs.
djc
Im like many others on this site.. I have very little material needs in life. I dont get pleasure in owning objects.
I could sum up my work life, which has lasted 6 years. I started late, 19, helping a farmer, that lasted a year. Though work, I miss the physical aspects.. you felt fit after a weekends work.
Worked 6 months in a small factory, doing rutine stuff.. kind of enjoyed it because I could stand there and do menial jobs and just think about other stuff... moved up to running CNC machines, more or less a button pusher..looking out the window and thinking while the cycle ran out. I kind of wished I had that type of education. I could have my own little shop, turning out trinkets that nobody else could because they would have to make a living doing it.
Installing AC units.. Ok job. Payed very well but seasonal. Meaning, everybody buys them Oct-Mars, usually very cold when we are trying to install them. This job is open if I want it back.
Last job.. working in oil services, catering. Working 2 weeks, 4 weeks off. Which has given me the oppertunity to go to a University... and not getting a degree. Pays $100K+ a year, but its not a dream job. Lots of free time, letting me discover these kind of websites, to think more, be less stressfull. I did not intend it to become my permanant job, but since I just dropped out of Uni, it would take me 3-4 years to find another job that would let me earn close to this, or give the same benefits.
I dont hate to work, if they give me reasonable returns without demanding to much from me.. or, the job is meaningfull, or flexible ( I would never go back to 8 hour work days ) or working for myself. I want to live a simple life, in a small house, with only the bare minimum living expenses and just enjoy this life, through nature, books and the internett.
I could sum up my work life, which has lasted 6 years. I started late, 19, helping a farmer, that lasted a year. Though work, I miss the physical aspects.. you felt fit after a weekends work.
Worked 6 months in a small factory, doing rutine stuff.. kind of enjoyed it because I could stand there and do menial jobs and just think about other stuff... moved up to running CNC machines, more or less a button pusher..looking out the window and thinking while the cycle ran out. I kind of wished I had that type of education. I could have my own little shop, turning out trinkets that nobody else could because they would have to make a living doing it.
Installing AC units.. Ok job. Payed very well but seasonal. Meaning, everybody buys them Oct-Mars, usually very cold when we are trying to install them. This job is open if I want it back.
Last job.. working in oil services, catering. Working 2 weeks, 4 weeks off. Which has given me the oppertunity to go to a University... and not getting a degree. Pays $100K+ a year, but its not a dream job. Lots of free time, letting me discover these kind of websites, to think more, be less stressfull. I did not intend it to become my permanant job, but since I just dropped out of Uni, it would take me 3-4 years to find another job that would let me earn close to this, or give the same benefits.
I dont hate to work, if they give me reasonable returns without demanding to much from me.. or, the job is meaningfull, or flexible ( I would never go back to 8 hour work days ) or working for myself. I want to live a simple life, in a small house, with only the bare minimum living expenses and just enjoy this life, through nature, books and the internett.
Two things. First, I work in the software world where fortunes rise and fall on a time scale of 5 years. To stay employable one must constantly stay ahead of the curve by learning new technologies, and making decent predictions about which technologies to learn. So far I've found the learning process fun, and have made good enough calls to stay in the game. However I worry that I'll run out of steam or make a series of unlucky predictions and lose my livelihood. I've seen it happen to others and it isn't pretty. Once I'm financially independent I won't have to worry about this any more.
Actually I think this risk exists in every field. It's just more apparent in high tech because product lifetimes are so short.
Second, I have three interests that can hold my attention for days on end: software development, playing and designing games, and music. Software is the only one I can support myself with, so I've made a career out of that. However someday I might want to work on the other two full time. Or work on software that isn't commercially viable. With FI I could do that. Right now I don't have that option.
Actually I think this risk exists in every field. It's just more apparent in high tech because product lifetimes are so short.
Second, I have three interests that can hold my attention for days on end: software development, playing and designing games, and music. Software is the only one I can support myself with, so I've made a career out of that. However someday I might want to work on the other two full time. Or work on software that isn't commercially viable. With FI I could do that. Right now I don't have that option.
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I have seen people discuss living in a car, going without hot water, eating really strangely, compromising their hygene, giving up their pets...all on purpose just to be able to quit their jobs.
How bad were these jobs??!! I mean, I would rather ride my bike and play all day, but not if it meant living a nearly homeless lifestyle.
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Firstly, I'm not really retired or even on any kind of moneyed early retirement track. I actually have no idea what kind of future is in store for me.
My problem is I was ruined by something I decided to do. I decided to live out of a backpack and hike in the wilderness for 6 months.
During that time I learned a lot of things about happiness and true wealth. I slept on the ground, I was dirty, I did scary things I didn't think I could do, I was alone and sometimes saw no other people for days. Everything I had was on my back and it wasn't much. I carried only 12 pounds of gear and enough food to get me to the next town. I looked and sometimes felt like a homeless person but deep down I knew I found the secret. I was the wealthiest woman in the whole world. I had all the wildflowers I could ever want. I saw beautiful places the wealthiest people will never see. Time went on forever and every moment was fully and completely LIVED.
I sometimes went hungry or thirsty but I survived. I sometimes was hurt or tired or cold and wet but I learned the difference between discomfort and danger. I found my body was far capable of more than I ever thought possible. I learned that being uncomfortable made me appreciate small comforts more. That hardships and inconveniences made me stronger. That my true status is that I'm insignificant but that I matter so much that a beautiful sunset was given just to me, or that a kind stranger was provided to help me when I needed it most. I know what it's like to truly love a mountain stream. Has anyone ever felt love for a faucet?
In short, I came to understand that there is more to life than commerce and that our society is on this insane pursuit of comfort, convenience and status that is going to drive human existence to the brink before it ever stops. And while it's doing that, it's not even making us happy. I have a hard time playing along.
I really ought to get back on the insane path of "normal" life if I ever really hope for an "early extreme retirement" but honestly, I've fallen so far down the Gervaise continuum below the "losers" I have to look up to see them.
I have a perfectly loser job. When I talk to the boss, I know that he knows that I know it's all just a stupid pointless game to make him rich at my expense. I give him only exactly what he asks for and not a bit more and he's fine with that. I simply can't go back to the corporate world. I know too much and they know it. They'll never take me back unless I somehow learn how to hide whatever it is that shows enough to scare the heck out of them.
I keep a toe in. I'm taking classes. I try to update my resume sometimes. Maybe I'll find a way back, if only to earn enough to get out again. Maybe someday I'll snap out of it and join in "normal" society with gusto again. Like I said, I have no idea what the future holds for me.
I have seen people discuss living in a car, going without hot water, eating really strangely, compromising their hygene, giving up their pets...all on purpose just to be able to quit their jobs.
How bad were these jobs??!! I mean, I would rather ride my bike and play all day, but not if it meant living a nearly homeless lifestyle.
-----
Firstly, I'm not really retired or even on any kind of moneyed early retirement track. I actually have no idea what kind of future is in store for me.
My problem is I was ruined by something I decided to do. I decided to live out of a backpack and hike in the wilderness for 6 months.
During that time I learned a lot of things about happiness and true wealth. I slept on the ground, I was dirty, I did scary things I didn't think I could do, I was alone and sometimes saw no other people for days. Everything I had was on my back and it wasn't much. I carried only 12 pounds of gear and enough food to get me to the next town. I looked and sometimes felt like a homeless person but deep down I knew I found the secret. I was the wealthiest woman in the whole world. I had all the wildflowers I could ever want. I saw beautiful places the wealthiest people will never see. Time went on forever and every moment was fully and completely LIVED.
I sometimes went hungry or thirsty but I survived. I sometimes was hurt or tired or cold and wet but I learned the difference between discomfort and danger. I found my body was far capable of more than I ever thought possible. I learned that being uncomfortable made me appreciate small comforts more. That hardships and inconveniences made me stronger. That my true status is that I'm insignificant but that I matter so much that a beautiful sunset was given just to me, or that a kind stranger was provided to help me when I needed it most. I know what it's like to truly love a mountain stream. Has anyone ever felt love for a faucet?
In short, I came to understand that there is more to life than commerce and that our society is on this insane pursuit of comfort, convenience and status that is going to drive human existence to the brink before it ever stops. And while it's doing that, it's not even making us happy. I have a hard time playing along.
I really ought to get back on the insane path of "normal" life if I ever really hope for an "early extreme retirement" but honestly, I've fallen so far down the Gervaise continuum below the "losers" I have to look up to see them.
I have a perfectly loser job. When I talk to the boss, I know that he knows that I know it's all just a stupid pointless game to make him rich at my expense. I give him only exactly what he asks for and not a bit more and he's fine with that. I simply can't go back to the corporate world. I know too much and they know it. They'll never take me back unless I somehow learn how to hide whatever it is that shows enough to scare the heck out of them.
I keep a toe in. I'm taking classes. I try to update my resume sometimes. Maybe I'll find a way back, if only to earn enough to get out again. Maybe someday I'll snap out of it and join in "normal" society with gusto again. Like I said, I have no idea what the future holds for me.