Burnout

[EdithKeeler]

So many people on these forums seem to really like their job function, but not the politics, etc.

I am just sick of both. I've come to the realization that, after 25 years in my career, I'm completely burned out. I'm hanging on by my fingernails, because my job pays really well and I'm not ready to ERE yet, but if had another job that I felt more jazzed about, even if it paid less, I'd do it.

Problem is, absolutely NOTHING interests me. I know that this is a symptom of burnout. One of the cures for burnout is to cut back, take more time for yourself, and I've been doing that, but so far, I really feel the same about my job. I drag myself there daily. Another cure is to immerse yourself in something else you're interested in... but I got nothin'.

I took a week of vacation last week and bummed around town and the house and was perfectly happy hanging out with the dogs, doing a little hometown tourist thing, doing some stuff around the house. I think I could use about 9 more months of that.

Just curious how others on this forum have dealt with burnout, if you've suffered it, what you did, how it resolved.

[jacob]

I retired.

My particular burnout was caused by having lost faith in the system I was working under. There was really no way to escape that and regain faith by taking time off or finding a hobby, etc. I found that it just got worse and worse and eventually it was hard to drive myself to think about work when I'd rather be thinking about something else. It was time to get out.

I think FI can be an obstacle to overall happiness in that regard. Golden handcuffs are no fun, especially not the self-imposed FI kind in which the argument is "just 3 more years".

We hang onto the known factors and plans because of fear of uncertainty thinking that something else won't materialize. Yet some consider having a mere two years of savings enough to completely rediscover their spirit and change course. In reality, it probably is.

[workathome]

Are you dedicated to ERE? How much time do you have left to achieve your goals? Are you seeking career advancement or just a paycheck? Is it a public sector or private job? Could you take a longer vacation and try to see how you feel? Can you slack off, or make free time at work and do personal projects? I hear public sector employees have more lee way.

Before I went rogue, I had a job I hated. I started taking longer lunches. Then I'd go home for 4 hours at a time. Then I'd just drive over twice a day show up for about 20 minutes or so each. I did that for a few months. Eventually I was moved to a different position and couldn't do it anymore. So instead I just showed up and read all day, but I couldn't even bring myself to pretend it anymore. Management told me to stop and I ended up yelling at them about how stupid the job was and walking out. I still used them as a referral on my next job. I should have quit before then, but felt trapped. My position was useless, and the job wasn't important. You might be able to get away with a lot. Your situation may be widely different, so probably not a good strategy. But the burn out happens to a lot of people, and every situation seems to be different.

[Dragline]

When in a rut, I tend to make lists of goals or other things I'd like to do. And focus on other aspects of life than work, such as health or relationships or spirituality. Making plans usually improves my mood.

I also keep a journal and re-read it. I find sometimes that my moods change for no good reason at all.

[JohnnyH]

There was a good thread months back about how to not focus on [lousy] market returns that had many suggestions like these... Anyone remember which thread that was?

[Sigmund]

I had it once and it was a nightmare. I worked at a company I disliked and I was looking for another job for half a year to no avail. I hated waking up in the morning, I hated to go there, I started hating my life. I was easily angry and flipped out. Finally I got sick for like a month, it looked like flu, but was definitely psycho-based.

Most dangerous when having burnout:
1. one starts thinking differently. Like a junkie who can think only of getting the next shot. One dreams only of being left alone and starts planning his life accordingly,
2. it's difficult to act "normal" for more than an hour. Especially cumbersome during job interviews. If it takes more than an hour, HR guys will find out one has burnout and won't employ him. So it's difficult to go away from the "toxic" job to a healthy one.

Solutions - Write a script for yourself how to answer job interview questions "normally", get another job using answers from the script (honest answers will kill the interview) and spend time in a friendly work environment. Or retire if you can afford it. Both will cure your burnout.

[A Brit]

I retired.
I think FI can be an obstacle to overall happiness in that regard. Golden handcuffs are no fun, especially not the self-imposed FI kind in which the argument is "just 3 more years".

We hang onto the known factors and plans because of fear of uncertainty thinking that something else won't materialize. Yet some consider having a mere two years of savings enough to completely rediscover their spirit and change course. In reality, it probably is.

ERE and FI are as much a state of mind as a measure of money or an (S)WR number.

My experience is that the state of mind is far harder to acquire than a stash of wonga and a seemingly appropriate WR value. I'm still shackled to me desk - partly with golden handcuffs (of both the final salary pension and the FI "just another year or two" varieties) but, if I'm honest mainly by the "mind forged manacles"[1] of fear.

To compound the problem - much of what of you call "the known factors" are non-financial positives that we're wary of putting in jeopardy with a large life change. Relationships and marriages being the prime example. While I hope and expect my marriage to continue to thrive in a nenyw context, I can never *know* that it will to them same extent that I *know* that it works now.

[1] William Blake.

[thebbqguy]

I've gone through periods of being unhappy with my job at various times. I think it's a very common thing. We all have a vision for our lives and for many of us our job is tied a great deal to our feelings of personal worth and valude.

I have been fortunate because many, many of my former co-workers and some friends lost their jobs during the 2005-2008 downsizing period. That usually puts things in perspective for me. I'm very thankful I have a job. I can't imagine how unhappy I'd be if I didn't have one.

Some things I have done to get out a rut from time to time:

--Volunteer for a high profile project
--Relocate to a new city (I've done this for promotions and for lateral opportunities)
--Interview for new opportunities
--Make your wishes known to your management team (I told mine I want to continue learning new things man times at various points in my 17 years)
--Volunteer for charitable committees (we have a lot of these at my employer)
--Volunteer to train/teach others
--Read more
--Go to church more
--Meditate more
--Exercise more
--Eat healthier
--Learn a new hobby (for me I've learned contest quality bbq and recently took up carp fishing)
--I bought a motorcycle about 12 years ago and rode it work when I needs a "change"

There's a lot of things you can do.

The best thing that helps me is to get my mind off of it and stop dwelling on unhappiness. I ask myself if it's something I can control or not? If yes, then make an action plan; if no, then let it go and try to focus on something else.

I used to get uptight and worry all the time. I've trained myself not too. Believe it or not, you can condition your mind to change the way it views situations. I am no scientist, but I've read about it enough to know it works and I've done it myself without even realizing.

My .02 cents worth of suggestions. I hope things get better for you.

[Tyler9000]

Burnout is a tough problem. I've historically solved that by switching jobs every few years, but in retrospect (8 employers later) that isn't necessarily sustainable. The problem with "following your passion" is that your greatest work passions tend to ignite the greatest burnouts. The brightest stars have the shortest lives before going supernova. And one can only survive so many of those with their soul intact.

So from my perspective, the feeling of having no idea what comes next isn't necessarily a bad thing. Taking the opportunity to enjoy the present rather than always planning for tomorrow is a healthy change of pace. And remember you don't have to be retired to do that. When I feel burned out at work, wishing I was retired already only makes it worse. But reflecting on what I really do enjoy in the here and now usually helps quite a bit.

The ultimate cure for burnout is the feeling of total personal agency. Identify where you lack control in your own life and seek out constructive ways to regain it, but strive in the meantime to always maintain agency over your emotions.

[ICouldBeTheWalrus]

I knew I was really burnt-out when after a couple of week-long vacations many months apart, each time I returned to work with a sense of dread. When I wasn't burnt-out, I always had at least some enthusiasm for returning to the challenges of work.

My experience is that if it's bad, you just gotta take some time away from working, or at least working on anything that is remotely similar. Fortunately this spring when I was feeling the most I've ever felt burnt-out, I was in a position to comfortably stop working for an indefinite period of time.

I'm actually just now starting to consider doing some part-time work for my former employer on a fairly challenging and higher-profile project if they can pay me enough. I fortunately left on such good terms that it seems they would love to have me back, and I think this will be a good exercise in keeping some more emotional distance from what I'm working on.

[retiredat47]

In my case, it was a career that had rapidly mutated into something I no longer recognized, and on top of it, the support I've gotten from other people in that field for my decision not to return to it has been 100%.

Looking at my investment portfolio, I don't have to work right now, so I don't, and it's doubtful that I could find a job anyway.

[before45]

Just found this thread. I hope you're doing better. I think I'm experiencing burnout. I notice I space out in meetings and have not idea what someone just asked me. I also have more anxiety than I ever have before. I wonder if I've just reached my quota of stress chemicals and have become hypersensitive to them.

I do try to focus on other parts of my life, but it's hard. I agree in theory with those who say that a person can start developing the activities of their ER life while still working, using their free time, but I don't seem to be able to do that. Which makes me nervous about my ER life, that there aren't other things I want to do, but I'm pretty sure that I just need to be free for a while to rest before new passions can surface.

How I am handling burnout currently is a combination of mindfulness meditation, music-making, exercise, and planning my ER. I keep thinking I should try therapy, but I can't bring myself to spend the money, as frankly I don't think it would really help.

[EdithKeeler]

@before45--I can really relate. I got so incredibly stressed out and overworked I ended up in the hospital last year. Worst and scariest experience of my life, and while I'm much much better now, I know I'm not over it. I feel like the whole experience was a--perhaps THE--defining moment in my life, and I'm still processing it.

And--I went to therapy a good bit before the wheels came off. I found the process enjoyable in a weird way, but not especially helpful.

[Tyler9000]

@EdithKeeler -- I can relate to your body reacting to stress. Over the past year, I've become more aware of physical manifestations of anxiety in my life. A full anxiety attack made it obvious, but I now understand that even things like the recurring neck pain I've suffered for years is also a symptom of when anxiety levels are too high. The funny thing is that in both cases I didn't necessarily feel consciously stressed at the time my body was saying otherwise. So I've started to be more attuned to my body to recognize when my subconscious is trying to tell me to ease up.

As an aside, my personal burnout is at a peak today. Following up on my previous post, it's hard to feel in control of your own life when you're sent half way around the world on business doing things you don't particularly care for. I know it'll pass, but I can't help but spend my free time thinking about what I need to put in place in order to be able to walk away. The trick is not allowing that thought process to cause more anxiety. :/

[retiredat47]

In my case, it was a career that had rapidly mutated into something I no longer recognized, and on top of it, the support I've gotten from other people in that field for my decision not to return to it has been 100%.

Looking at my investment portfolio, I don't have to work right now, so I don't, and it's doubtful that I could find a job anyway.

Last year, I applied for a job at a local department store, and was turned down, although they didn't say why. Even though I realized during the interview that I didn't want to work there, it still stung. Yesterday, there was a big news story about a local lawyer whose license was suspended a couple years ago, and revoked as of yesterday. This guy did some stuff that really ought to land him in prison! Guess where he works - as a cashier, no less. They had to have known who he was, because the story was all over the news at the time. Go figure. I guess I DEFINITELY didn't want to work there, if they hire people like this.

[SimpleLife]

Burnout is a tough problem. I've historically solved that by switching jobs every few years, but in retrospect (8 employers later) that isn't necessarily sustainable. The problem with "following your passion" is that your greatest work passions tend to ignite the greatest burnouts. The brightest stars have the shortest lives before going supernova. And one can only survive so many of those with their soul intact.

So from my perspective, the feeling of having no idea what comes next isn't necessarily a bad thing. Taking the opportunity to enjoy the present rather than always planning for tomorrow is a healthy change of pace. And remember you don't have to be retired to do that. When I feel burned out at work, wishing I was retired already only makes it worse. But reflecting on what I really do enjoy in the here and now usually helps quite a bit.

The ultimate cure for burnout is the feeling of total personal agency. Identify where you lack control in your own life and seek out constructive ways to regain it, but strive in the meantime to always maintain agency over your emotions.

Sorry to resurrect your post but it was relevant to something I am dealing with recently. I too have found changing jobs to be helpful, but not as much as it used to be. Now, looking back at it after several years, I realize it was for the most part the same characters with different faces.

There is always someone who takes credit for your work, someone who is incompetent, someone who thinks they are your boss when they really aren't, etc. In general it felt better initially, until I started to recognize the same problems are in most places. Sure, some jobs are better than others. I liked my last job better than most of my others, and turned down several good offers to stay there at the time; ultimately, I realized that there are people issues EVERYWHERE. Some are more tolerable while others are intolerable, but you never truly escape the BS.

What I've determined is important to me, is working reasonable hours, getting paid well, treated well overall, and having work life balance. In house promotions, jockeying for position, the general rat race; I have learned that really it's all moot. Focusing on learning new skills, certifications and education made me skyrocket past my peers by changing jobs - securing 20-40% pay raises each time. I've surpassed most if not all of them and they are still jockeying for the same low level positions. I've als found that almost every place I left ended up eventually disbanding in one form or another due to all the turmoil.

I think the one mistake I will say I may have made was not trying to get promoted with each job change. I think doing so would have helped prevent burning out. I've essentially moved laterally for the past few years because it's so much easier to land a technical job when you have a really techie resume, vs landing a management job with a lot less experience that was some time ago...and when you are trying to escape a bad situation, you aren't thinking of a career path you're just trying to move away from the pain as quickly as possible, so you go with what recruiters are beating down your door for: technical work.

It sure would have been nice to go from IT Engineer to IT Manager to IT Director, etc. I would have had to learn new things in each role. Instead it's been an up and down cycle and lately it's been technical lead roles across the board, mostly just for the money. Don't get me wrong, the pay is good, but what I determined today was that my next move really should be for a management position unless I need the money due to a change in finances. Sure, I might take a pay cut for now, but I will work my way back up there again just like I did in IT. Or I can always take the recruiter/HR route and tell people about the time when I was an IT professional making 150K a year before I retired from my career and went onto something more fun.

I think that also should solve the debate about the definition of retirement. Going from an IT professional role to a low level office worker with a huge pay cut, is an argument I can make. Going from WM greeter to Target Greeter wouldn't be retirement. The former is a professional career that one can retire from and go do something less stressful for a lot less pay as a "retirement job".

[jacob]

Crosslinked to another burnout thread for future reference:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6519

[Tyler9000]

Nice post dig. It's interesting to read my own thoughts at a time when I was struggling, too. One post-script I would add now is that in retrospect my burnout "cure" of personal agency is probably a unique motivation to me. Everyone will have different core issues that cause the things they enjoy to eventually wear them out. You've got to be honest with yourself.

I agree that job-hopping is really only a temporary burnout band-aid. My theory is that the same work BS exists everywhere not simply because people are the same everywhere but also because you always bring your personal issues and pet-peeves with you. When the fun new projects fade, you're left with the same you. And if you're not happy it spills into your perceptions of everything else. You have to change something more fundamental than your surroundings to break the cycle.

[Stahlmann]

Interesting problem. Looking for cases of people who overcame given issue.

[retiredat47]

I had totally forgotten about this website, until I got an e-mail about this thread. I'm still retired at 56, with a home-based online retail business and a preliminary hire at the U.S. Census.

I STILL get 100% support for my decision from professional colleagues.