What is the most economical car?

[M]

I'm proposing this as a question to all of you guys/gals. I'm afraid that my current vehicle, which I paid $2300 for 7 years ago and gets 40 mpg, may be on the fritz. It's burning about a quart of oil every month, it smokes, it's rusting in several different areas, and I have reason to believe that one of the cylinders may be losing compression. I plan on running it until it becomes inoperable or uneconomical - which may be anytime now.
So - this is a question for you guys. What is the most economical car that you can own in the long run? Specifically, I'm looking for cars that have:
1.)Low maintenance costs/will run forever (I do my own maintenance, so it has to be easy for a person to work on)

2.)High fuel efficiency.

3.)Low initial capital costs.

4.)Seats at least 4 people, preferably 5.
My ERE date is still 7 years out , so I need it to last at least that long. I drive about 50 miles everyday to get to and from work, mostly highway, and the public transportation is non-existent, so riding a bicycle is not an option for me. I simply don't have that kind of stamina.
So - what do you think is the most economical car in the long run? What do you currently drive, and why? What kind of fuel mileage/maintenance costs do you have?
The current used car market is...interesting, which is why I'm bringing this up.

[Christopherjart]

perhaps the engine needs to be rebuilt?

[dot_com_vet]

A quart of oil/month isn't all that much. I'm guessing you could keep it going a while. There are reports of new cars from Volkswagen Auto Group burning oil right off the showroom floor that is considered "normal".
A used Honda Civic or Fit would probably meet your requirements. Five people comfortably would be a stretch, though.

[m741]

MMM had a post about recommended cars:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/03/ ... rt-people/
For commuting/errands I was pretty happy with my Hyundai Accent. Small & cheap, but it got the job done. If I had a need for a car now I'd probably get a Honda Civic, 4-5 years old, and keep it in good shape. One of the things I'm thinking about post-ERE is doing some car camping in National Parks all over the US and Canada. For that I'd probably get a crossover or station wagon so I could sleep in the back.

[Ralphy]

I was in a similar situation about a year and a half ago. I spent about 3k for a 1999 Chevy Prizm with ~100,000 miles, and I've been very happy with it so far. Very reliable, good mileage (~35 highway, 40+ when hypermiling), no repairs yet other than new tires and oil changes.
I recommend Car Survey to help research car purchases.

[KevinW]

My views are well represented on the Driving wiki page:

http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wiki/ ... le=Driving
Having talked to a lot of "car guys" and seen a lot of plans in action, I think the overall cheapest approach is to maintain a fleet of compatible beaters. In the 90s I had a coworker who did this with Chrysler corp. K-cars. At any moment he'd have 4 running for his family, 1-2 in need of work, and a large stock of parts. He'd buy totaled cars when he saw personal ads for them, or at auctions, keep the parts he needed, and sell the ones he didn't on eBay. He turned a slight profit on the whole thing.
I also had a neighbor who seemed to be doing this with retired Crown Vic taxi/police cars, and an acquaintance who did it with Geo Metros.
If you want a more conventional approach where you buy running cars and mechanic service on the retail market, I would go the "Lifer" route with a Honda, Toyota, or Nissan. Buy a 5 year old, 4-cylinder, versatile model, from a reputable dealer. Maintain it well and drive it until it is truly worn out. Not until "it's ugly" or "I'm sick of it" or "it's incompatible with the latest electronics," but until it stops working as transportation. Those cars can easily make it 10 years and 20 years is not unusual.

[M]

@ChristopherJet - I've considered an engine rebuild, but the cost seems somewhat prohibitive to me. I do most maintenance work myself, in my front yard. But since I don't have a garage, I draw the line at doing engine/transmission rebuilds, welding the frame back together, etc. Thus I would need to pay someone else to do the rebuild. Does anyone know how much it would cost to rebuild a 1.3 liter, 4 cylinder engine?
@dot_com_vet - I've seriously considered the Honda Civic, but I keep wondering if the premium that I would have to pay for one on the used car market would really be worth it. Are they really that much more reliable than your typical chevy or ford?
@m741 - That's a good post by MMM. It's nice to see that most of the cars I'm considering are in the recommended list.
@KevinW - This is kind of the approach I took. I have two identical 12 year old metros. One for my daily driver, and one as a backup. The one I drive daily is the one that is starting to get worn out, rusted, etc. I can simply drive the other car, but I prefer to have a backup car, considering the cost to rent a car.
I'm tempted to simply buy another metro, but I get a lot of, err, social pressure not to, due to safety concerns, etc. Also - the metros I have are both autos, so they don't get the fuel mileage one would expect from a metro. Since they stopped making the metro in 2001, they are also starting to become somewhat difficult to find. In general I think this is a good approach to vehicle ownership, I think I may just need to switch my car of choice.

[dot_com_vet]

"...@dot_com_vet - I've seriously considered the Honda Civic, but I keep wondering if the premium that I would have to pay for one on the used car market would really be worth it. Are they really that much more reliable than your typical chevy or ford?..."
I think you have to look at total cost of ownership, factoring in your needs. That's key. As a commuter, I think a Honda would well be worth the premium. They tend to be pretty easy to work on too, saving you time and money. It makes sense if it is a "lifer vehicle".
If you needed a non-commuter, then maybe an old cop car would work for occasional driving. Taxi companies buy these, don't do much maintenance, and drive them until they die. (They don't even bother changing air filters.) Fuel costs probably wouldn't be great though.
My personal goal is to keep depreciation/maintenance under $1k/year. That's been pretty easy with Japanese cars. (I drive 10k miles/year on average, although I'm starting to scale that back as much as possible.)

[KevinW]

IMO the spiritual replacement for your Metro is a used, 5-door, manual transmission, Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, or Nissan Versa. These are designed for practical everyday use and are in the sweet spot of being cheap enough to be economical yet expensive enough to be durable. They are produced in large volumes by major manufacturers so parts should be easy to find for decades to come.
The smartcar, Scion xA, and Scion iQ are all smaller. But they seem rare so I worry about parts. And their price and fuel economy don't really seem much better than the Fit/Yaris/Versa.

[M]

@dot_com_vet - I will do some more research into the Honda Civic, especially with regards to the purchase price. Several different people have said that this is the way to go. My own dad drives around in a 1998 Honda Civic that he bought brand new 14 years ago. It has ~330,000 miles on it and still runs like a champ, despite him changing the oil "every three years, or whenever I get around to it." and generally neglecting the vehicle in every way possible. Sometimes I'm surprised that he remembers to put gas in the car.
@KevinW - You hit the nail on the head. Those cars have been my primary considerations thus far. I've heard very favorable things about the Toyota Yaris, especially in regards to fuel economy and maintenance. The Honda Fit has great cargo space and reliability, and the Nissan Versa is roomy and cheap.
The biggest question in my mind that I have yet to answer is: Given proper care, how long can I reasonably expect the drive train to last in various different vehicles? I have done research to figure out the fuel economy, expected maintenance costs, etc, but I have thus far been unable to figure out how long a car's drive train should last. In my spread sheet, I've been using 300,000 miles as a general rule of thumb for Japanese cars, and 200,000 miles for US/Korean cars. But I haven't been able to find any junk yard statistics, or crusher statistics, etc to back up these assumptions. All I have been able to find is a lot of anecdotal evidence. When calculating the cost per mile, knowing how long the vehicle is expected to last plays a huge factor in determining the total cost/mile. Can you comment on how long you would expect the drive train in a vehicle to last? Are you aware of any statistics on this anywhere?
Thanks.

[irukandjisting]

30 dollars a fortnight gives me around 300 ks - sometimes I might have to do a 40 a fortnight - but my little buzzbox averages 10 Aussie dollars for 100 ks (thats around $1.50ish p litre)
~~Iru~~

[JohnnyH]

I think a Geo Prizm (re-badged [less expensive] Toyota Corolla) is very hard to beat. The 1993-1997 models are very well reviewed, inexpensive, easy/inexpensive to work on. Many of the reviews said 300k+ miles on some of these cars.
Only difficultly is finding one with less than 200k and in decent shape... I would also consider a Chevy Prizm (1998-2003), but many of that generation of Toyota engine has oil consumption problems. Insist on a 200 mile test drive before you buy one. Also, the body and interior was made by GM and more prone to problems. But the 98-03 has a timing chain, rather than a belt, which is a big plus (doesn't require preventative changing).
My manual 95 Geo Prizm was purchased for under $2k with 120,000 miles. 12k problem free miles so far. Only had to replace alternator ($40 and 15 minutes) and thermostat ($8 and 20 minutes). 4k miles will burn about 30% of the "full" to "fill" oil dipstick mark. It gets about 35 in the winter and 40 in the summer. Insurance is $17 a month and licensing costs are as cheap as they come.

[KevinW]

@M

Consumer Reports and TrueDelta collect reliability information, but it's intended for typical consumer research and not questions of the form "how long will the drivetrain on a 2011 Toyota Yaris last?"
There's a difficulty in modeling an entire drivetrain as something that wears out all at once. As you probably know, different parts fail at different times for different reasons. Some related to miles and some related to age. I imagine that the first time a coolant hose or spark plug wire wears out, you wouldn't consider the whole car worn out. But then where do you draw the line? It's a slippery slope.
Around the 1990s there were many technological shifts that should make drivetrains more durable: self-tuning ECMs, knock sensors, detergent gasoline, distributorless ignition, and solid state electronics. Since then the worn-out drivetrains I've heard of, have all been due to design flaws such as the oil sludge fiasco. You don't really hear about engines throwing rods or spinning bearings very much anymore.
So, it's probably reasonable to assume that a drivetrain that is established to be flaw-free, could last until the reciprocating mechanical parts wear out of spec. Probably somewhere around 300,000 miles like you said. Maybe even more.

[Shandi76]

I second the recommendation for a manual transmission Toyota Yaris. I have a 5 year old one and I love it. Haven't had any major problems with it, except one that was covered under warranty.

[Ego]

Three times now we've purchased the cheapest model Honda sells... right now that's the Honda Fit. We buy the base model, stick with no options, brand new. Typically we sell them about three years later. These cars hold their value remarkably well.
Look at a 2009 Fit on Kelly Blue Book. Just under $13,000 for a car with 30000 miles. Brand new 2012 MSRP is $15,325. Who pays MSRP?
My wife is really good at selling cars so we always get bluebook and once we got above. People want that Honda name but get sticker-shock when they browse the dealership so it is much easier to buy from someone who seems trustworthy (my wife) than the scamming dealer.
I write off mileage for my small-business so we end up making money on the car.

[M]

@KevinW - Good observation. I suppose I should qualify the question as how long can someone reasonably expect a car to last before it is no longer economical to repair/restore it, compared to buying another whole car? I know there are a lot of variables in this, and it's somewhat subjective because it depends on how one drives, the engineering of the car, how expensive it is to repair the vehicle both in terms of time and/or money, etc. So for me I try to define this by asking, how long will a well maintained car last before it needs an engine/transmission rebuild/replacement, or when the frame rusts out? Because, for me in my current situation, these are the things that would be very costly to do.
I've ran across some statistics on this (I love statistics). See here. I realize the numbers aren't perfect, as it doesn't take into account car crashes, maintenance, technological advances, etc. I think taking these things into account I may raise my expectations for a newer GM/Ford vehicle to 250,000 miles, and a newer Toyota/Honda to 350,000 miles.
@Shandi76 - A few questions for you. Do you have a sedan Yaris or a Hatchback? What kind of mileage do you see on the Interstate? Do you use any kind of hypermiling techniques, etc?
@Ego - That. is. awesome. I wish I could make money on my transportation.

[dot_com_vet]

Ego, I'm an '09 Honda Fit owner too. It's a fantastic car, very frugal, extremely practical.
Shortly after the Japan earthquake, it was actually appreciating in value. I've never had a car do that.

[Shandi76]

@M- My Yaris is a Hatchback. I was not aware you could get them as a sedan? I'm in the UK so we may have slightly different models available. It's a 1.33 tr 5 door hatchback. I get about 55mpg (UK gallons) on the motorway. I don't really do any hypermiling.

[JohnnyH]

"This is what the average interior of an old Geo looks like — a rolling storage unit that pays tribute to the owner’s disappointing personal and professional life. Rear seat passengers get a reasonable amount of space, on par with some midsize cars."


lol, so true... From a funny article on Geo Prizm:
http://jesda.com/2011/09/09/buy-here-pa ... or-people/

Convinced someone to buy one of these, a 97 manual 1.6 that recently got them 42 mpg on the highway at 70... Even better than mine avg about 38 @ 70... However, when I pulse and glide an entire tank I can get over 50 mpg (suck it Prius owners!).

[Kriegsspiel]

I traded my BMW 328i for a Scion XA earlier this year and couldn't be happier. It checks almost all of the boxes people mentioned in this thread. It was pretty cheap to buy, probably depending on where you live, but Around $5,000-$10,000. Japanese reliability. I get about 55mpg in mine (it's a manual). I just took a road trip to a national forest and slept in the back (I'm 6'). MMM has one too, and he wrote the bo... post on cars.