As a result of my thinking about hardening the failure points (viewtopic.php?t=2586), I realize it's time to question the need for frozen foods.
What do we gain by using a freezer and storing frozen foods?
1) Ability to store home-grown seasonal food for later use, with a more desireable taste than other food preservation techniques.
2) Ability to stock up when food is on sale.
3) Ice on demand.
4) Foods eaten in their frozen state, like ice cream.
I have some doubt about the financial gain of #2 as storage costs might easily offset the sales price. #3 can be dealt with in an unconventional manner (something like an icemaker using a tank of compressed CO2). #4 is a want, rather than a need. Which leaves #1 as the main serious use and, frankly, a minimally used one as we usually eat the home-grown items ASAP...
Why frozen foods?
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George the original one
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Fred Tracy
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Yeah,
#1: If you're going to preserve food I think canning, cellaring, and drying are better since you make a one-time energy investment rather than an ongoing one. And the equipment is dirt cheap.
#2: IMO it's better to stock shelf-stable staples such as grains, flour, and beans. Again, no ongoing energy cost.
#3: The ERE answer is probably the old-school method of cutting an ice slab out of a river or lake in the winter, storing it year round, and cutting out ice balls with knives and picks.
#4: Is indeed a luxury. Perhaps ice cream should only be bought in single servings.
That said, we do still have a freezer.
@Fred I've never seen that. But you could buy your own freezerless mini-fridge and unplug the combo fridge. Or fill the freezer with water containers and never open it, which will cause it to use practically no energy.
#1: If you're going to preserve food I think canning, cellaring, and drying are better since you make a one-time energy investment rather than an ongoing one. And the equipment is dirt cheap.
#2: IMO it's better to stock shelf-stable staples such as grains, flour, and beans. Again, no ongoing energy cost.
#3: The ERE answer is probably the old-school method of cutting an ice slab out of a river or lake in the winter, storing it year round, and cutting out ice balls with knives and picks.
#4: Is indeed a luxury. Perhaps ice cream should only be bought in single servings.
That said, we do still have a freezer.
@Fred I've never seen that. But you could buy your own freezerless mini-fridge and unplug the combo fridge. Or fill the freezer with water containers and never open it, which will cause it to use practically no energy.
Designs differ, but many refrigerators basically end up using the cold air from the freezer in the fridge one way or another. If you never opened the freezer I'm not sure how much energy is really being wasted.
Yeah, you could get a fridge-only but I'm guessing you are talking about something that is already included in your rent.
Some fridges have separate thermostats -- you could set the freezer as high as possible and use it as an extra cold fridge.
Yeah, you could get a fridge-only but I'm guessing you are talking about something that is already included in your rent.
Some fridges have separate thermostats -- you could set the freezer as high as possible and use it as an extra cold fridge.
The budgetary failure point for many is convenience. With regard to meals it is often a health failure point as well. Unexpectedly busy days leave little time to make an inexpensive home-cooked meal. That's when the temptation to eat an expensive/unhealthy restaurant meal is strongest.
When we cook a meal we make a lot, package it in individual serving sized containers and freeze it. Our freezer is packed full of these healthy, cheap meals. This saves us far more than the cost of running the freezer.
When we cook a meal we make a lot, package it in individual serving sized containers and freeze it. Our freezer is packed full of these healthy, cheap meals. This saves us far more than the cost of running the freezer.
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futuredoctor
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jennypenny
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I have a huge freezer (my friends call it the "morgue"). It's almost always full. It's mostly foods I store for the winter months and foods I've prepared. I also keep things like my extra flour in it to prevent bugs. Having a freezer allows me to take advantage of good deals on meat and produce.
To be honest though, it's mostly convenience and a cheaper way to maintain a fairly high standard of living. I guess I'm addressing futuredoctor's point. Having a freezer lets you take advantage of good deals on meat, but of course eating no meat at all would cost the least.
I think I'd be more willing to give up my refridgerator.
To be honest though, it's mostly convenience and a cheaper way to maintain a fairly high standard of living. I guess I'm addressing futuredoctor's point. Having a freezer lets you take advantage of good deals on meat, but of course eating no meat at all would cost the least.
I think I'd be more willing to give up my refridgerator.
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George the original one
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@futuredoctor - So how do deal with the family packs? Are you breaking them up into smaller packages before freezing? Or do you cook all the pieces in one session and then refreeze? Does having a freezer increase your consumption of fat to an unhealthy level? How much meat are you buying at a time when you stock up?
For my wife and I, we might buy a family pack and then cook the entire package at some future date. In reality, I think my small family shouldn't bother storing the meat any longer and just cook it when we buy it... two people just shouldn't eat as much meat as we have available to us as it leads to us getting fat.
When I look in our freezer, we might have as much as 10 pounds of meat plus the occasional turkey. 10 pounds of meat is really not very much... the rest of the freezer is full of convenience foods (including the occasional leftover).
For my wife and I, we might buy a family pack and then cook the entire package at some future date. In reality, I think my small family shouldn't bother storing the meat any longer and just cook it when we buy it... two people just shouldn't eat as much meat as we have available to us as it leads to us getting fat.
When I look in our freezer, we might have as much as 10 pounds of meat plus the occasional turkey. 10 pounds of meat is really not very much... the rest of the freezer is full of convenience foods (including the occasional leftover).
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Freedom_2018
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In my case.
Advantages:
- Freeze berries, cherries when in season
- Freeze Ground Turkey from Costco and some sausage/meatballs
- Ice in summer is nice.
- Hence reduced trips to store for these items (gas + time)
Disadvantages:
- We tend to eat a lot of fresh veggies
- So trips to the store still happen
Advantages:
- Freeze berries, cherries when in season
- Freeze Ground Turkey from Costco and some sausage/meatballs
- Ice in summer is nice.
- Hence reduced trips to store for these items (gas + time)
Disadvantages:
- We tend to eat a lot of fresh veggies
- So trips to the store still happen
How about just reduce the amount of frozen goods and use solar power?
http://www.sunfrost.com/vaccine_refrigerators.html
http://www.sunfrost.com/vaccine_refrigerators.html
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George the original one
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Solar power is probably not the answer in my case of residing in NW Oregon... output in the winter months is only 1/6 of summer months!
See http://www.mysolarcity.com/Kiosk/SolarG ... eType=Year
[Note that you can click on the word "Previous" just below "Year" to see the previous full year]
See http://www.mysolarcity.com/Kiosk/SolarG ... eType=Year
[Note that you can click on the word "Previous" just below "Year" to see the previous full year]
Agree with above Freezer is useful for homegrown foods especially berries. And if theres a disaster, its worth having some extra sausages, chops or thin cut meat, bacon and bread. also a freezer pack to keep things cool when power is off. I also buy meat in bulk and separate it into small packs.
We do have a very small freezer/fridge though because we worked out it stops us from buying unnecessary items like ice cream.
We do have a very small freezer/fridge though because we worked out it stops us from buying unnecessary items like ice cream.
There's a lot of things I don't miss when spending time without electricity (during power outages, camping, boating, etc...)-- a freezer is something I'd miss.
I eat freshly cooked meat on most days (not smoked or dried meats), and without a freezer, that would be a lot more trips to the store. We buy large amounts of chicken at once, and then cut it into portions and freeze it, cooking each portion as needed. I think this helps reduce over-eating because the portion size is determined in advance, rather than an eat until you're full and save the remainder strategy. Once I eat my 6-8oz of chicken, my only option for more is to thaw another package out and cook it-- it's far easier just to eat some more salad.
Other meats, like ham, are often more economical bought as a large piece, prepared all at once, and then the leftovers frozen as portions.
Also I tend to like the flavor and texture of things like frozen peas and corn over canned peas and corn.
Beyond the meats and veggies-- life without ice, ice cream, frozen goodies (I rarely eat sweets)... I'm not going to pretend its an unimaginable suffering, but it seems to be an unnecessary suffering for me.
I eat freshly cooked meat on most days (not smoked or dried meats), and without a freezer, that would be a lot more trips to the store. We buy large amounts of chicken at once, and then cut it into portions and freeze it, cooking each portion as needed. I think this helps reduce over-eating because the portion size is determined in advance, rather than an eat until you're full and save the remainder strategy. Once I eat my 6-8oz of chicken, my only option for more is to thaw another package out and cook it-- it's far easier just to eat some more salad.
Other meats, like ham, are often more economical bought as a large piece, prepared all at once, and then the leftovers frozen as portions.
Also I tend to like the flavor and texture of things like frozen peas and corn over canned peas and corn.
Beyond the meats and veggies-- life without ice, ice cream, frozen goodies (I rarely eat sweets)... I'm not going to pretend its an unimaginable suffering, but it seems to be an unnecessary suffering for me.
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Christopherjart
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I wish I had a larger freezer section. Eating for one when supermarkets usually sell packs for families, makes life difficult. I don't really have space to store frozen meat and make ice cubes.
If I had a larger freezer I could cook batch meals and store them for later taking to work. Frozen food lasts for months. Meat will go bad in just a few days in a fridge.
If I had a larger freezer I could cook batch meals and store them for later taking to work. Frozen food lasts for months. Meat will go bad in just a few days in a fridge.
@George TOO
From all the reactions you see that answering is depending on circumstances, a one or two family has different needs as a bigger family, living in a moderate climate (me) has advantages over a subtropical or tropical climate. Eating habits have a lot of influence: meat included requires earlier a freezer than people who eat no meat (me).
But a wider perspective is the question why we use frozen food as it uses more watts (energy) to keep it good than i.e. dried food or using fresh.
So if one lives in a moderate climate, on walking or cycling distance from shops it is perhaps better not to use frozen food.
From all the reactions you see that answering is depending on circumstances, a one or two family has different needs as a bigger family, living in a moderate climate (me) has advantages over a subtropical or tropical climate. Eating habits have a lot of influence: meat included requires earlier a freezer than people who eat no meat (me).
But a wider perspective is the question why we use frozen food as it uses more watts (energy) to keep it good than i.e. dried food or using fresh.
So if one lives in a moderate climate, on walking or cycling distance from shops it is perhaps better not to use frozen food.
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jacob
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It's said that fridges/freezers are mainly used to store condiments and compost. This is probably true for a great deal of fridges.
They contain things like ketchup, dressing, mustard, ... and things that will never get eaten or could/should get composted.
Fridges/freezer essentially allows one to hook into the industrial food system. It brings part of the supermarket at home so we don't have to go and buy all the time. If ketchup is not made on demand but bought in quantities that are substantially larger than what's eaten within a few days, it must be stored. This hookup comes at price of technology and electricity.
So why frozen foods?
Because that's essentially what the agroindustry delivers. They don't deliver salted or smoked meats. Consumers largely don't know how to make ketchup or mayo on their own. Pickling takes too much diligence. Vegetables don't stay fresh for long unless kept cold (or genetically modified, hello tomato) and that's a problem when they no longer come from the backyard but from 2000 miles away.
Also, and this is the most important reason: As long as you got electricity and Home Depot, cold is much easier compared to all other food preservation techniques. You buy the fridge (very cheaply) and you buy the electricity and then you just put the food in and you're done. Conversely, once supplying electricity and technology becomes hard (e.g. boat refrigeration where you have to burn limited fuel or rely on solar and the fridge is a fickle $2000 system the size of a small cooler), other preservation methods are preferred.
They contain things like ketchup, dressing, mustard, ... and things that will never get eaten or could/should get composted.
Fridges/freezer essentially allows one to hook into the industrial food system. It brings part of the supermarket at home so we don't have to go and buy all the time. If ketchup is not made on demand but bought in quantities that are substantially larger than what's eaten within a few days, it must be stored. This hookup comes at price of technology and electricity.
So why frozen foods?
Because that's essentially what the agroindustry delivers. They don't deliver salted or smoked meats. Consumers largely don't know how to make ketchup or mayo on their own. Pickling takes too much diligence. Vegetables don't stay fresh for long unless kept cold (or genetically modified, hello tomato) and that's a problem when they no longer come from the backyard but from 2000 miles away.
Also, and this is the most important reason: As long as you got electricity and Home Depot, cold is much easier compared to all other food preservation techniques. You buy the fridge (very cheaply) and you buy the electricity and then you just put the food in and you're done. Conversely, once supplying electricity and technology becomes hard (e.g. boat refrigeration where you have to burn limited fuel or rely on solar and the fridge is a fickle $2000 system the size of a small cooler), other preservation methods are preferred.
Also, and this is the most important reason: As long as you got electricity and Home Depot, cold is much easier compared to all other food preservation techniques. You buy the fridge (very cheaply) and you buy the electricity and then you just put the food in and you're done.
DW is going to be firing up our deep freezer tonight which we bought at a garage sale for $80. We have had it unplugged and unused for 2 years now, very happily. Suddenly she wants to freeze fruit + a load of paper towels (to help keep the food cold(?) since freezer will not be full).
WTF ever. We were better off with just our small freezer part of our refrigerator, imo.