Saving 10 years (exploring retirement) journal

Where are you and where are you going?
saving-10-years
Posts: 554
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
Location: Warwickshire, UK

Saving 10 years (exploring retirement) journal

Post by saving-10-years »

Where am I going? Not too far as I am pretty much there on the FI front, but I hope to share some of the details of the rest of the journey.

I am inspired by the ERE journals here, all of them but particularly in awe of those who are still in their 20s and 30s and so disciplined about all this. Please keep at it the payoff will be fantastic. Please keep writing as I love to read all this. I have a 16 yo (still at school and planning to go to university in a couple of years) and am teaching him the tenets of ERE. I've loaning Jacob's book or passing along links to the blog to all those I know who would benefit. Yes, you guys have turned me into an ERE bore. Thank you. ;)

Some context for my own story. I suppose one of the important advantages I have is that I never been in debt. In part because I am a worrier. So I want all the debt sorted asap (paid off mortgage early ... saving for the next car now (due for replacement in five years) ... went to university at a time when there were still grants and on top of this obtained an employer guarantee of employment in the holidays and a bursary besides ... extra contributions to pension for past 20 years). Unfortunately this does not mean that I have used money effectively. I have accumulated many missed credit card charges, overdue library fines, book club purchases that I forgot to cancel and was too busy to return. I have also bought loads of things that seemed a good idea at the time but I did not end up using much/at all. All because we were too busy or distracted to pay attention to what we were doing. You need time and some sort of incentive to be frugal. We have just wallowed around for decades now in a relatively wasteful state. Not a great thought.

On the plus side I quite like frugal living (the challenge, the creativity, the ethos) and have some experience there from the early days of living alone and our marriage. For example when DH was a student and I was working in the charitable sector (job satisfaction great, pay rather less so) we took in lodgers, this was considered well weird by work colleagues (mutterings about privacy and sanctity of home life). I saved money when I was a student and was the only one I knew who did this. Having a bursary helped but I made clothes or bought from jumble sales and charity shops and my bean stew was legendary :-) DH was frugal and taught himself to sew before I knew him (this was a big draw - the only guy I knew who would not be asking me to mend or customise his clothes).

It is easy to fall out of the habits of economy when you have no plan and no 'need' to be frugal. So although when we paid off the mortgage in 2005 we thought it might be a good idea to buy a property to rent out we were too busy to pursue this and we just wasted that money on little things to ease life (two cars, more holidays, even more stuff). I would say that we were wasting money on simply not thinking very hard about what it was being spent on. It did not feel like a priority as we were already saving more towards pension and in better financial position than most people we knew. We drifted. There was probably a sense that we were 'entitled' to waste money as we'd worked hard for it. Often - for me anyhow - too hard and too long to get much time for pleasures other than spending online at the stores that never close. :-(

When DH was made redundant in 2011 at 55 we had several months advance notice so I started acting like our income had plummented by 40% before this actually happened. I cancelled plans for a trip to visit neice in Japan in 2012 only to find that I had managed to save enough to cover this well before DH's job disappeared. So we went and had a great time. We found that the economies that we had expected to need were not necessary to survive. We could survive on one income with small amounts of consultancy on top. Eventually just on one income.

I like metaphors and would say that at this stage we had shut off the obvious waste, so almost eliminated the water pouring in bucketloads from the tap we forgot to shut off. But we were far from conserving water or thinking about ways to reduce the number of times that we opened up the tap. Not exactly frugal then, but a lot less wasteful.

In the past two years a happier DH has been living at his own pace and with time to do things he's put off for years as well as starting up new interests. I on the other hand have been working more manically and unhappily and unhealthily (putting on weight, teeth grinding and general stress). We've explored various options for me to work part-time (I am not sure I could work part-time in current job even if paid part-time so probably best that this plan did not work out). What has eventually (unexpectedly) happened is that I am able to take my pension in 2014 instead of waiting to past 2023. By 2023 that pension would be worth a lot more, but I don't reckon we need a lot more and I don't see more money as making me happier than more time would.

The pension I will be drawing in a few months time is equivalent to 49% of my current take home pay. It will be the only guaranteed income but I expect - by being a lot more frugal - we three can live on this alone. I know that my son is worried about how far this economising might go but as we also have sufficient savings to buy some rental property that is an extra buffer. An important one as son will be off to University in a couple of years and two households will cost more than one. We also don't intend that he carries loan debt forward from that so will try and stay clear of student loans. DH and I have sufficent craft skills (and also consulting skills if need be) to make income on top of this and we have a houseload of clutter to sell on eBay. As we have further pensions (state and small work pension for DH) coming on-steam over the next 10 years we will not need to carry on working beyond mid-60s but we hope that by doing at things we love and taking our time over them (no more rushing!) we will be able to live and work comfortably for a couple of decades. Retiring in a 'do nothing/live without effort' sense has no appeal and we will delay that as long as possible. Working at least some of the time in the charitable sector holds appeal once the finances are settled and I've taken on an unpaid large project for 2015 already.

I expect this journal to be one where I share little discoveries about living frugally for the long term while having a much better quality of life. Finding income generating things to do that we really enjoy, without having to make income that more than covers the costs of doing the thing. Hobbies that more than pay for themselves as Jacob would put it. We both find investment very scary so not sure that one is for us. But we finally have time to research that topic so that we can reach an informed (not gut) opinion on that one. Property rennovation/management is something we should be able to do as we've done this on past two houses (we love bringing a wreck of a building back to being somewhere desirable to live). With 4 acres of land growing much of our own food should be very possible. Balanced against that is not having public transport so having car costs. One of those decisions we need to make in the coming years.

I suspect that all my posts will be quite long ones ...
Last edited by saving-10-years on Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

saving-10-years
Posts: 554
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
Location: Warwickshire, UK

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by saving-10-years »

Trying for a slightly shorter post this time ...

Good and unexpected start to the year. DH has acquired a new substantial freelance job, starting in a few weeks, almost all at home and at his own pace, doing something he is very good at for fair reward. With this and other freelance income we now expect DH income to equal c.25% of our current net income. As his total paid-for work should amount to approx. 70 days annually then it should feel pretty much like ERE for him. (5.5 days for play and 1.5 days for pay, with a lot of flex). Plenty of time for home renovation and craft projects in that equation.

We have also had offers accepted on two small houses locally. Translating UK speak that means we are going through the tortuous paperwork to buy these. Both need work done, which we will do mostly ourselves, both should be pretty rentable and although neither are beauties we could see ourselves being happy to rent either if we were looking for small places on a budget. We hope to make some tenants pretty happy by late Spring. One house paid for with savings and one paid for through my tax-free pension fund. We are much happier investing in property than other things, its something we think we understand. We plan to keep these for the long long term.

The income from my pension + rental income + DH income will almost equal what I currently bring home. As we already need less than this to live on, all my spreadsheets show the same encouraging thing. I really am ready to retire.

This is quite scary. I now face the prospect of not having to bring home any money, ever again. Its all covered. I have been in some level of employment constantly since I was 14 and in full time work since graduating in 1978. Yes I know most readers here weren't born then and its taken me far to long to get to this stage. But - although I need to let it sink in - seems like I am ready to retire. Am I repeating myself here? Have to go and lie down and think calming thoughts before I freak out.

Hope you all have good starts to the year.

Gilberto de Piento
Posts: 1950
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:23 pm

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

Welcome! Thanks for posting. Are you already landlords or will these be your first rental houses?

saving-10-years
Posts: 554
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
Location: Warwickshire, UK

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by saving-10-years »

@Gilberto Thank you.

We own our own home (outright, no mortgage) but this is a new venture, buying property for other people to live in. In the UK it is very popular right now to invest in buy to let (BTL) property. Usually this is done using an interest-only mortgage. You can also claim tax relief on the interest part of the mortgage (which with interest-only is of course 100% of the mortgage). We are running a different approach in buying using our savings. If interest rates rise we are not exposed to the same risks as other BTL landlords (in fact we are likely to see higher yields if this drives rises in rents). Also we intend to keep our income very low (the ERE part of our retirement) so we will not be paying much tax. Tax relief if one of us expects to be below the threshold for paying any is of limited appeal.

The other ERE thinking applied here is that although its great to get tax relief on interest its better not to pay interest at all (especially when interest is a lot higher on BTL mortgages than for any savings account).

If we were more clued up about investments we'd use the money, or at least part of it differently. But we feel that we know what we are doing with a) property rennovation/maintenance, b) tenancies - we have been tenants ourselves in the past, c) treating tenants reasonably (we had lodgers for many years before son came along). There is a lot of legislation around letting and it changes all the time, but we are actively researching and drawing on experiences from those friends who are already doing it. Although not all experiences ... they all think that we are nuts not to have an interest-only mortgage.

Property prices in the UK are on the rise (again) with the cheaper properties selling very quickly as government helps people to buy houses (its a national obsession). We're happy with the houses that we have chosen. Although neither are outright bargains the prices are fair. If we had caught up with ERE a decade ago we could have been much further down the road to having a great income from property investment and could have helped our tax bills as well. This is pretty Just-In-Time property investment on our part.

Storapa
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by Storapa »

Hi STY,

Man, you've got a lot going on at the moment, but it sounds as though you are heading in the right direction.

I like your approach to the rental properties. We are also nervous about investing and find property more appealing / less frightening.

What part of the UK are you from? We are right in the middle, in Warwickshire.

saving-10-years
Posts: 554
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
Location: Warwickshire, UK

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by saving-10-years »

Well that is VERY interesting .... Warwickshire for us too. Sounds like a Midlands-based UK ERE meet-up might be worthwhile? Any others in the UK within reach of us? PM me if interested.

(For non-UK readers bear in mind that Warwickshire is not a populous county (c.546,600) so less than (say) Vancouver or Baltimore.)

Storapa
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by Storapa »

That is a surprise. We are very close.

We are on The Fosse just outside Leamington. Yup, an ERE meetup sounds like a plan.

I'd PM you but for some reason I'm unable to at the moment, but I can receive them.

saving-10-years
Posts: 554
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
Location: Warwickshire, UK

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by saving-10-years »

This is seriously spooky. Sounds like you live within 5-10 miles of us and have similar interests in DIY camping vehicles. 8-)

I'll PM. I think you may need to have been active a bit longer before you get permission. This is this first time we have tried.

Storapa
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by Storapa »

Sounds like a cup of tea is in order. Let us know it's suitable. We can bring the camper along.

Do you own a teardrop btw?

saving-10-years
Posts: 554
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
Location: Warwickshire, UK

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by saving-10-years »

Yes we built a teardrop and blogged about it (may be worth putting something on this up on the DIY thread here at some stage - although lots ). In a way that I (like to think) that Jacob/ERE would approve of it has an aluminium roof which was reused form an old caravan that someone dumped at the end of the drive. Be very happy to show you it and talk through plans for the next one (after all we have the chassis for the dumped caravan to start again).

Tea. How British is that? Yes we're tea drinkers too. :D

saving-10-years
Posts: 554
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
Location: Warwickshire, UK

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by saving-10-years »

In email contact now. Confirmed that we live c. 7 miles away and definitely be in contact to arrange a meeting. Anyone else who happens to be into ERE and in the area get in contact and you can come to tea too!

Storapa
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by Storapa »

Looking forward to the meet-up.

I'm looking forward to looking at the teardrop. We'll bring the camper along.

Anybody else out there close to Warwickshire fancy it?

saving-10-years
Posts: 554
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
Location: Warwickshire, UK

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by saving-10-years »

No numbers (quite honestly they are embarassing at the moment - accuracy and in other respects) but something to show what I mean about addressing balance in 2014 (my New Year theme). I've done two charts to show how income flowed in during 2013 and how we expect it to come in in 2014.

Image

The second chart is future gazing, showing anticipation of a much more balanced spread of income sources as the year goes on. DH is bringing in more in this scenario. That will let me wallow in the prospect of bringing in no wages. :shock: I'll be pretty busy getting the rental projects up and running (project manager), decluttering the house including via eBay sales, tackling my big crafts-based voluntary project and fighting to minimise every cost.

Image

Yes, that pension looks very healthy, but bear in mind that I've worked in a sector where pension prospects have been sold as part of the financial incentive and as much as 30% of earnings of the package has gone into that good pension for almost 25 years. (A risk averse/tax minimising investment, or lack of financial knowhow?).

Its been obvious for the past year or so that the amount we would need to bridge the gap between pension and take home pay was surprisingly modest. However I would like pension to not be quite so dominant as an income source. Now I have time to learn more about it I may start investing, at least in a minor way. With the savings from being more frugal I anticipate that there will be some extra income to invest.

So 2015 could be even more balanced (aka fragmented).

DutchGirl
Posts: 1659
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by DutchGirl »

I do NOT live in the area (ha, funny to see that conversation), I just wanted to say that I've stumbled across your journal and have read it. Good luck for 2014; sounds like you and your husband can do this thing...

saving-10-years
Posts: 554
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
Location: Warwickshire, UK

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by saving-10-years »

@Dutchgirl. Thanks. I am enjoying your journal. Struggles with PhD brings back memories (as well as a warm happy feeling that it was eventually done and dealt with).

Storapa and LM and myself and DH are planning a get together within the next month. Not only will we meet in person but we will also bring his homebuild campervan and ourhomebuild teardrop trailer together. Should be fun.

Storapa
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by Storapa »

It's going to be interesting swapping thoughts. LM will be back from her travels on Monday evening and will give you a call early in the week if that suits.

Looking forward to checking out the teardrop.

saving-10-years
Posts: 554
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
Location: Warwickshire, UK

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by saving-10-years »

Adapting questions from Spoonman's idea.viewtopic.php?p=68797#p68797

Here are my questions for future self to check how retirement is panning out ... to be candidly answered in Dec 2014 (after 9 months of retirement).

Former Self: Can you please describe how you feel right now about this retirement lark?
Future Self:

FoS: It’s easy to assume that you are less stressed now than in your previous life, would you say you experience significant stress these days? If so, what are the dominant stressors?
FuS:

FoS: Are you managing to stay within budget? How has your expenditure changed post-work?
FuS:

FoS: Is income sufficient/as expected (rental and other sources)? Do you wish you had worked another year or two?
FuS:

FoS: What has the been the most surprising aspect of your adventure thus far?
FuS:

FoS: Do you miss the job? Are you experiencing some sort of existentialist crisis because you’re not spending most of your waking hours at work?
FuS:

FoS: Have you noticed a change in your sleeping patterns?
FuS:

FoS: How about eating and exercise? You meant to improve those - have you managed to?
FuS:

FoS: Are you thinking about taking on a new project? Regretting any new projects already taken on?
FuS:

FoS: How is the rest of the family feeling about this (esp. DH and DS)?
FuS:

saving-10-years
Posts: 554
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 am
Location: Warwickshire, UK

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by saving-10-years »

I am not that good at updating my journal it seems. I would rather read those posted by some of the more interesting and extreme retirees. I suspect that posting will continue to be an irregular exercise prompted by *something happening*.

The news I would like to record now is that I am now really really near retirement. The big (last) day for me is 31 March i.e. less than two weeks of part-time working (taking some annual leave) so only 7 days of work. Put another way its only four more commutes as I work at home part of the time.

Taking leave right now comes in handy as we now have a property to renovate in hope of letting it over the next month. We ended up buying only one property (which helps with finances) because there was a problem with access to the other house. The one we now own we really like and what has been impressive is that although some big rental-related bills are already coming in (solicitors fees, carpets and other stuff) we have managed to save money each month since October (around £500 per month on average) while also paying these bills. So although we are still not monitoring expenses closely we seem to have activated an extra-frugal switch.

We are using the pressure cooker and eating a lot of beans. But we know these savings aren't all down to that. :roll:

DutchGirl
Posts: 1659
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by DutchGirl »

I'll see your new posts come up anyway, whether they're on a regular schedule or not. So, 31 March, wauw! That's really soon and really cool. I was thinking you could then relax a little, but it sounds like you'll be terribly busy the next few weeks anyway, with the renovation.

Storapa
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: Saving 10 years (near the end) journal

Post by Storapa »

Wooohoooooooooo.

Not long now.

We should catch up soon. We've been flat out at this end, moving things forward. We're not as close as you guys though.

I'll drop you a PM shortly. I think a cake and cuppa are in order.

Keep us all posted.

BM

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