Anxiety about money and buying property

lilacorchid · Post by **lilacorchid** » Sat May 18, 2013 3:37 pm

With all the collecting of cash into our savings, I'm starting to feel like it's gone beyond collecting into hording.
A property has come up that if we bought it would require us to get another vehicle and up my current commute from walking to work to driving about 30 minutes. I would also not be coming home for lunch anymore. I'm guessing I would lose around 5 hours of time a week.
We own our house free and clear right now. I'm thinking there is a $30-40K extra price tag in purchase price alone, plus adding in selling our old house and buying a commuter car.
I can easily see that for cash flow purposes, it makes sense to stay in this house. But I am having trouble quantifying the quality of life. It's noisy here in the city; our cats don't have enough room (they regularly have screaming cat fights if they cross paths), and I'm tired of keeping the curtains shut all the time so the neighbours can't see into our house.
If I were freer with money, I would just buy the damn thing and move. I've been watching the market for some time, and this appears to be a good deal (if there is nothing wrong with the house) and it is pretty much what we have been looking for over the last two years while I've been watching the market.
To add to the pot, my job has really been pissing me off, and if we buy this house, I'm guaranteeing I have to stay longer, not that I had an exit date in mind yet.
I need help!

secretwealth · Post by **secretwealth** » Sat May 18, 2013 3:59 pm

I understand the desire for privacy a lot--but getting another vehicle, being unable to come home for lunch, and losing 5 hours per week sound like pretty significant downsides--not monetary downsides, but quality of life downsides. Plus, shackling yourself to a miserable job even longer is another pretty significant negative.
Is being able to keep your curtains open worth that sacrifice?

chenda · Post by **chenda** » Sat May 18, 2013 4:02 pm

I would try and quantify the extra costs and years to FI by moving to this house compared to staying put, it might make the decision easier.
Are there other locations you could look to buy in which have a better compromise between housing quality and location ?

jzt83 · Post by **jzt83** » Sat May 18, 2013 4:39 pm

You could probably find someplace quieter and more private near work. A well-insulated unit can be nearly sound-proof.

JamesR · Post by **JamesR** » Sat May 18, 2013 4:53 pm

Any chance that you're just feeling stressed out? How about eliminating some sources of your current stresses.
For example, the cat fights, is that stressful? How can you solve it?

lilacorchid · Post by **lilacorchid** » Sat May 18, 2013 5:17 pm

I am totally stressed out... sleep deprived to be more specific. It's not just the curtains, it's living in a freezing house in the winter and a hot house in the summer. We have a 1.5 story house and have done extensive upgrades to the insulation and venting and it's better, but still annoying. 5C difference between the upstairs and downstairs is normal when it's either summer or winter. Colder in the winter, hotter in the summer. I try to leave the windows open in the summer, but then I'm hearing the neighbours partying until all hours or the kids wandering around in the summer. The furnace is on the main floor (no basement) and the fan runs all. the. time. and it's making me nuts.
The asshole cat belongs to my husband, and I can't get rid of it even though he harasses my little princess. Marital harmony and all.

Add in a toddler who occasionally wakes up in the night... I'm miserable. I haven't had a good nights sleep in over two years.
When I think of living in the country, I think of the quiet, the darkness, a few chickens for eggs, a garden, and a whole lot of space for my son to run around in.
The commute and having to borrow money on the new place are holding me back. That and my anxiety about change. What if this is an awesome place to live and I'm not seeing it because I'm stuck in this optimize/hord cycle. :/

theanimal · Post by **theanimal** » Sat May 18, 2013 5:24 pm

Have you looked at possibilities for a new job near the house you'd like to purchase? It doesn't sound like you are in a healthy situation. If you decided to stay (at both your house and job) I think you'd be somewhat miserable and likely not satisfied in the long term. If you can find a job that's closer, I'd take the new house.

lilacorchid · Post by **lilacorchid** » Sat May 18, 2013 5:41 pm

If I leave this job, I will make less then what I do now. I work for the government fixing computers and have no papers (I got in before they required college, etc) so I don't think I'll find anything comparable.
To clarify, I live less than 1/2 mile from work so I walk. The place we are looking at is 2 miles from a village outside of the city limits. It's all farmland outside city limits, so it's not like a large city that has grown into the towns and smaller cities next to it.
And yes, I am pretty miserable. I'm frustrated with my "family friendly" company f-ing me around with my family responsibilities, and I'm frustrated with all the work that needs to be finished around the house and all the giant, expensive things that broke over the last year.

chicago81 · Post by **chicago81** » Sat May 18, 2013 5:58 pm

I can sympathize with you. I have been living in the same condo in the city of Chicago for the past 8 years. It is paid off, close to work, close to good public transportation (train stop), close to the beach, etc. I can walk to the grocery store, gym, the park, etc. It is great in these aspects.
But the noises of the neighbors, the people in the ally when I have my windows open, the car alarms, the police and ambulance sirens at all hours of the night -- all of this drives me crazy. And it is worse in the summer time, obviously. Throw in the fact that the place is small. One bedroom place that my partner and I share, and it is about 600 square feet in size.
We have thought about moving to the suburbs, but it would require paying a lot more in transportation/commuting expenses, and would take a lot more time out of my day to commute to work. Not to mention the higher cost of a house in the suburbs (and higher property taxes) when compared against the relatively low cost of living in my paid-off condo.
It would definitely push out my ERE time-frame to move out of the city. But I do experience many of the same "urban frustrations" that you have mentioned. I think I am staying put for the time being.

chenda · Post by **chenda** » Sat May 18, 2013 6:14 pm

@Lilac - how far are you from FI ? Sounds like you could really do with a change. If your getting close then delaying FI a bit longer might be worth it if you get a better quality of life beforehand.
Maybe you need some time off to think things over

spoonman · Post by **spoonman** » Sat May 18, 2013 7:52 pm

This is a very interesting post, because we’re in the opposite situation. We have a condo in the suburbs that is fairly quiet with good neighbors...but we have sizable commutes (in wonderful, LA traffic) and always have to drive to places for just about everything. The closest walkable place is a 7-11 and it involves a 45 minute walk (both ways). We feel we just sleep and rest in our condo, but we “live” in other cities.
The positive aspects of urban living that chicago81 mentioned are the very things that we yearn for. In fact, I wouldn’t mind a bit of noise.
We’ve thought very hard about selling the condo at a slight loss and push our FI horizon by 6 months in order to move closer to where we work, but we’ve decided to hang in there. Although boring, the situation we are in is not painful (not counting the commutes).
As others have suggested, I think you should do a serious cost benefit analysis of moving to a suburb. The journey to FI is a marathon, so if you’re finding that you are burning out then it’s best to delay things a bit in order to remain sane.
I would also add that as long as you have a rational goal in mind (FI), what you are doing is not hoarding.

bluejoey · Post by **bluejoey** » Sat May 18, 2013 10:05 pm

I empathize. As spoonman noted, this is a marathon, not a race. Do what it takes to stay sane while remembering and refining your goals.
For example, we decided this week to shut down our wedding photography business once this year's weddings are done in order to lower my wife's stress levels. It means saying goodbye to several extra k per year, but it also gives us back several Saturdays per year while keeping my wife from feeling as if her summers get sucked away with weddings.
Cut out the stuff that doesn't matter so you can get to the stuff that does.

JamesR · Post by **JamesR** » Sun May 19, 2013 2:25 am

Lilac,
I ended up leaving my home city just because of weather, so I can understand how annoying that can be

Perhaps there are some simple changes in habits/behaviors or basic solutions that could make a big difference in your current quality of life?
For example.. what about wearing earplugs at night so the noises bother you less, and you can leave the window open more often?
From your first post, it also sounds like you're getting a bit of an itchy finger about your savings.. You have a "hoard" now that feels weird and makes you want to spend it.
Getting another car, plus giving up lunches at home sounds like it could easily reach $300-400/mo in extra costs.
Are there any big purchases you can make right now, to make your current house more comfortable? For example, it might make more sense to spend $5,000-10,000 or more and improve the insulation and sound proofing and perhaps furnace.
That would all depend on how close you are to FI and how much longer you would live in that place if it was fixed up nicely..

C40 · Post by **C40** » Sun May 19, 2013 2:58 am

As others have said, make sure you weigh the pros and cons and also the financial differences.
I also want to give you a bit of a nudge to make sure you're being realistic about some of your expectation. For example, I'd guess that your cats don't fight because you live in a small home - they fight because they don't like each other. They'll still fight in a larger home.

BeyondtheWrap · Post by **BeyondtheWrap** » Sun May 19, 2013 5:17 am

Another more realistic expectation I'd like to point out: I'm guessing that chickens are not quiet. They'd probably increase your stress by giving you more animals to take care of, especially since you'll be spending most of your time away from home anyway.
Anyone who has actually owned and cared for chickens, please chime in.

bluejoey · Post by **bluejoey** » Sun May 19, 2013 5:52 am

^ That's a good point. We've talked about keeping chickens before on our path to self-sufficiency, but frankly, I vastly prefer the idea of gardening our way toward sustainability. Our cats already take up a lot of my attention.

celliott · Post by **celliott** » Sun May 19, 2013 1:43 pm

There's a big difference between man-made noise and nature's noise. We humans learn to tolerate and even appreciate nature's sounds much better.
This is a quality of life issue you're facing now. I say move. Move for your sanity and peace of mind. When you are FI, you'll be in a much better place to enjoy it for the long term.
We came back from 3 years in Costa Rica and would've been content with our studio apt., were it not for the drunk college kid next door who had no regard for his neighbors. All hours of the night yelling and carousing in the parking lot below our window. It was a nighmare! Before our 6 month lease was up, we found a small house in a quiet neighborhood and bought it.
GREAT DECISION!!! Peace and quiet are worth the price.

graciouslady · Post by **graciouslady** » Sun May 19, 2013 5:36 pm

Taking on a commute is not something to do lightly. Before making a decision on that score, I would suggest that you find a route from your current home to drive to work that takes 30 minutes. Drive it every day for a week without walking home for lunch and see how you feel about it. Sometimes a different perspective on a problem can help crystallize better solutions. I personally endured a 40 minutes one-way commute for almost 3 years and it just about drove me insane. One of the things I hated the most was that I could never easily participate in my kids' school activities plus trying to schedule teacher conferences without taking vacation time was always a big stress factor.
Good luck on the decision!

lilacorchid · Post by **lilacorchid** » Sun May 19, 2013 5:38 pm

To answer a few questions:
We are far enough from FI, that I will need to work a few more (fiveish?) at our present rate of savings. This is due to marital harmony. Although I can deal with dialup and beans, the husband can not.
@chigaco81 - I'm glad I am not the only person dealing with this frustration! Makes me feel less crazy.
@JamesR - We just spend 15K on the house in the last year because of ants, end of life for a roof, and our unfortunate water emergency this winter. We are still trying to clean up the mess and do some improvements that we were putting off, so probably another couple thousand to make the outside more comfortable. At this point, we have pretty much done everything we can inside over the last ten years. New windows, insulation, drywall, wiring, furnace, hotwater tank, roof... the only place we haven't touched is the kitchen and I'm too chicken to do it. And yes, I am getting itchy. I'm very very good and staying focused when I owe money. Not so much at just watching it grow, especially since it doesn't feel like we have that much to watch right now. I feel like we are in savings purgatory.
Cats and chickens: Both good points. They fight because they don't like each other. I'm just hoping a larger house means they would be able to avoid each other, but the larger one is a jerk and I suspect he would just search out the other cat.
@celliott - Totally hear you on nature vs city noise. I grew up in the country outside of a very small town. I moved here to go to school, and I've been here 15 years and it's really starting to grate on my soul.
And finally, we took a drive out to see the house last night. It's really really nice. Pretty much exactly what we are looking for, minus one thing. I live in a very flood prone area, and I am thinking this property is so cheap and been on the market so long because it's probably been flooded (explains the shiny new basement bathroom!) I could deal with 40K in debt and a commute. But that plus the possibility of being flooded out... I'm just not sure.

Riggerjack · Post by **Riggerjack** » Mon May 20, 2013 3:29 pm

Contact an insurance salesman, give him the address, ask about flood history.

look on zillow to follow the past decade's values for both houses. Upgrade houses when the market is down, downgrade when the market is up.

If your heat isn't consistent throughout your house, that is a ducting or operator issue. If you want to be more specific, I might be able to help with that.

A white noise generator, and electric blankets are the world's greatest sleep aids.

The best solution for fighting cats is a dog that doesn't allow cat fights.

I read a long list of complaints about your current situation, make sure that if you move, you solve the problems, rather than trade for new problems. Good luck!