Actualization!- Level 7 towards level 8

[xmj]

First task might be reading or re-reading the Systems!- Level 6 towards 7 thread, which of course starts just the same way, and perhaps the Yields and flows!- Level 5 towards 6 thread as we build scaffolding towards higher and higher Wheaton levels.

[jacob]

Good initiative. I made the other threads "sticky", which means they appear at the top of the given index. Lets see what we can fill in together here.

[jacob]

The first thing to understand with this thread is that as far as the ERE forum is considered, WL8 is heading into thin air. Unlike previous WLs, we don't have enough forum threads to generalize and turn it into proper statitics. Here be dragons!

In many ways, the current (2024) misunderstandings/work-in-progress is similar to the earlier (2018) misunderstandings/work-in-progress when some forumites started to see the world in more terms than money, optimized money, and systems of money and began to transition for WL5 to WL6 and WL7. First including other kinds of capital and then integrating them into a system.

Remember how frustrating those threads were? But also remember the results from working through it. The forum took a huge leap forward once those issues were resolved!

With that in mind, most of what I have to say on this is NOT built on ERE forum experience. Rather it leans on personal experience (I consider myself WL8 or 8.5 tops) but more importantly on the parallels of adult ego development researchers who have studied this in detail---also relying on aggregating and generalizng thousands of individuals "journals".

I see the difference between WL7 and WL8 as going from conscious-competence when it comes to the various skills that are hightlighted by the various forums (and the list in the ERE book) to unconscious competence. You transition from thinking actively about WOGs and perhaps drawing diagrams and flowcharts as part of the learning process (WOGs are really a study-tool more than anything else, just like a barbell is a strength-tool but not something anyone would need to lift for real world problems) to having full internalized them to the point where you just don't think about them anymore---you just use them in the same way you use your legs for walking instead of stumbling around while constantly contemplating how best to moves your muscles and bones.

At this point, the focus changes more from the "outer work" of understanding how the world works---that's the key challenge of WL6 and WL7 to the "inner work" and understanding how _you_ work. What makes you happy/content/satisfied? What is a meaningful existence for you. What is it that you want to do in life.

Basically, at WL1-5, you've been trying to fit into a role that society metered out for you without understand that this is even what we happening. Instead you were just trying to live up to expectations and if you did, you were deemed successful.

At WL6-7 you figured out how the system actually worked and began to work it yourself. You understood the machine well enough to take it apart, rebuild it, and make it work for you. Instead of capitalism making a living off of you, you now make a living off of capitalism. Instead of being slave to gadgets and technology, you now understand how to build much of it yourself. You might not choose to, but you know it well enough to fix it when it breaks. You also understand how to make laundry detergent at a going rate of $200/hour instead of paying for it---something that people who don't see the DIY angle are completely blind towards.

Every level is about seeing something more about the world than the previous levels. So what more do you get to see from WL7 to WL8?

I think the good news is that WL7-8 is much easier than WL5-6 and also easier than WL6-7. WL5-6 essentially represents the break between the conventional and post-conventional in adult ego development. WL6-9 is all post-conventional work.

Since it's post-conventional, you're basically on your own wrt the general population. However, there are still seekers. And they're more easily found on the internet.

As I see it, WL8 is about what you actually want to do with your life on your own now that you understand how the world works well enough that you can pretty much do anything you want. (You can become wealthier than most. You can try a second career. You can get in great shape. You can win at sports. You can build stuff. You can grow food. You can cook meals for yourself better than what you can buy. You can travel. You can publish. You can get famous or at least notorious. I've done all these. There's more...) But which direction do you actually want to take?!? That's a BIG question. Nobody can tell you, so you have to figure it out on your own and that means having to understand yourself. This is why there are several "inner work"-threads of the forum.

WL9, as I see it, is what you want to do with others who also know what they want to do with their life. But that's another story.

Anyhoo ... this is my framework for the issues around WL8. (It's 2+ Wheaton levels removed from living in an RV, picking stocks, or talking about Roth conversion ladders already.)

[mountainFrugal]

Jacob beat me to the first post! Lightly edited to remove redundancies.

viewtopic.php?p=277205#p277205

I do not want to clutter this thread with a large image so please see my link, but I think that I did a decent job explaining the different capital stacks with the analogy of being able to shoot through increasing numbers of capitals with each of your individual actions. If you are moving from seeing all the capitals as individual systems and being able to shoot through all them individually and then stacking multiple capitals and shooting through multiple capitals with each of your actions then that would be WL7. As one practices aligning multiple capitals and shooting through them one can internalize them. I think this requires conscious alignment of multiple capitals on a regular basis for lots of practice. It also requires working on skills/deficiencies for each capital/subsystem (hence focus on internal work! YOU are now in the way of YOU!) so that they are more easily aligned with one another for any given situation. Indeed life is not static, but a dynamic thing! Eventually one internalizes all of these by stacking the different forms of capitals and successfully shoots arrows through multiple capitals consistently for their personal WOG. WL8. When that WOG/internalization of systems expands beyond the personal and begins to focus externally on community (broadly defined, not to be confused directly with ERE2.0, but there are lot of overlaps) this is moving towards WL9.

WOG tutorial reference that is consistent with above (at least from my perspective): viewtopic.php?p=279690#p279690

[jacob]

I would also suggest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNZmJpQcmO4 (4 minutes)

Worthwhile as a summary for ERE and also touching on some WL8 aspects near the end.

[daylen]

Seems that reconciling how the world is perfect the way it is with how the world is utterly broken is important here. If you have done the inner/outer work and decide that retreating into a mountain for the rest of your life and forgoing modern conveniences is the right path for you then that's fine. If you decide to dedicate 80 hours/week of your life to servicing society in whatever way you can then that's fine too. Doing nearly nothing for society might actually be the best "work" you can do for it, whereas doing everything you can for society may be the best form of "play" you can engage in. Probably there is some balance of participation that each person must strike on their own at various stages of their arc.

I personally lean towards the retreating into my cave to await potential social transformations that lure me out. Doing my best to prevent harm while working on a project that I believe will help blur the work/play boundary for others someday. Being an INTP with a lifelong interest in gaming and futurism, this will likely involve participation in the indie gaming development scene with the intent to explore possible futures biased towards human flourishing.

[7Wannabe5]

At this point, the focus changes more from the "outer work" of understanding how the world works---that's the key challenge of WL6 and WL7 to the "inner work" and understanding how _you_ work. What makes you happy/content/satisfied? What is a meaningful existence for you. What is it that you want to do in life.

How does this differ from the Values Clarification piece that is baked into the cake of "YMOYL?" beyond the fact that you are now choosing which activities you value enough to spend your time/life-energy on rather than which financial expenditures you value enough to spend your money/life-energy on? For example, many temperament and values based lifestyle design books such as "The Renaissance Soul" and "It's Only Too Late If You Don't Start Now" start from the premise that you own all your time with the money-piece deemed of secondary although necessary importance*. I believe "Renaissance Soul" offers the tactic of finding a J-O-B that primarily provides cash flow (as opposed to passion work) but also contributes to WOG in other practical ways, such as you can use the copy machine to make flyers for your political action group.

*Tiny lightbulb moment realizing that these book were written by women even older than me, so of the era when middle-class women often structured their own time in the role of homemaker and made later-life decisions about assuming a role in the workplace. Younger men and women who grew up with assumption that they would work 40/hrs week for 40 years as employees/earners are now making the opposite/same transition.

[jacob]

How does this differ from the Values Clarification piece ...

The point of WL6-8 is that it doesn't differ. YMOYL very much starts with values but the book itself never makes it into systems theory (even though VR herself understands systems theory).

OTOH, WL6-8 actually does have a realistic understanding of how the world works as opposed to just YOLOing their personal values or desires and blaming the world when they fail. The pre/trans-fallacy.

The WL table as a whole is a fine dance between the objective and the subjective and the interobjective and intersubjective as well. So far, the priorities between the four change according to the table. But it is not the only path. Some may deal with the intersubjective before the interobjective or the objective before the subjective.

The ERE WL table as it is going from succeeding at the interobjective system as it is (WL1-5) to developing objective skills (WL6-7) to questioning the subjective values of what one wants to do now (WL8) ... and moving on connect intersubjectively with others on the same path (WL9). This is not the only path.

[7Wannabe5]

@jacob:

Gotcha. That makes sense. Being a fully functional conventional (or unconventional) homemaker requires mostly a mix of objective and inter-subjective skills. So homemakers often suffer from either a lack of subjective (care for self as opposed to others) functioning or a lack of inter-objective functioning (bored, need more challenge and/or access to power.) A reading of some of the popular feminist literature of the mid-20th century might actually be enlightening to those who are experiencing malaise post early retirement. OTOH, I still recall the descriptions of the slow decline into near insanity suffered by highly intelligent educated middle-class females stuck in the suburbs with 4 kids under the age of 6 and a dick-head for a husband, which would make most anybody on this forum feel relatively chipper about their current circumstances.

[ertyu]

V interesting. The part that's curious to me is that wl7-8 is where jacob sees the inner work begin. To me, the inner work is the work. It's only after the inner work is done that it unspools out into "reality." And without the inner work, no action taken in reality will be persistent or stable. Thus I often find myself on the other side of what's considered "success" in this forum: why do you keep navel-gazing? Why aren't you taking action, action, action?? Because action without the navel-gazing is pointless striving, threading water. Effort for the sake of efforting. I also mostly talk about navel-gazing - mostly because the outer action isn't that complex; the "right things to do" might have been a major original contribution on jacob's part but once the system's been explained, it's not rocket science. Once the inner work is done, the outer action follows and it's almost pointless to talk about, it's a natural, effortless result. Not that I consider myself a wl7+, I guess I'm just sharing.

[xmj]

V interesting. The part that's curious to me is that wl7-8 is where jacob sees the inner work begin. To me, the inner work is the work. It's only after the inner work is done that it unspools out into "reality." And without the inner work, no action taken in reality will be persistent or stable. Thus I often find myself on the other side of what's considered "success" in this forum: why do you keep navel-gazing? Why aren't you taking action, action, action?? Because action without the navel-gazing is pointless striving, threading water. Effort for the sake of efforting. I also mostly talk about navel-gazing - mostly because the outer action isn't that complex; the "right things to do" might have been a major original contribution on jacob's part but once the system's been explained, it's not rocket science. Once the inner work is done, the outer action follows and it's almost pointless to talk about, it's a natural, effortless result. Not that I consider myself a wl7+, I guess I'm just sharing.

That's what makes both your and daylen's posts interesting and add a special, if enigmatic quality to them.

I've navel gazed before becoming aware that there is such a thing as early retirement (even if I don't share most insights in here), such that jacob's musings up there seem ... crucially late. As in, I've been trying to answer these ever since before leaving high school. Which is, of course, the best discrete moment to ask what you should (or, better, should NOT) do with your life.

But I do understand that after reaching some milestone, one should occasionally ask "now what?", take a moment to reintegrate things learned and re-evaluate previously acquired knowledge in light of new circumstances, and only then proceed.

So revisiting these questions might make sense, especially given you now have more, better, and hopefully more interesting models to view them in.

[AxelHeyst]

I’m not seeing wl8 as “and now you may commence with the navel-gazing”, I see it as “and now that you possess a high level of mastery over your environment and agency, things that you lacked when you had just graduated hs/uni, you may commence integrating self-knowledge for the purpose of fine-tuning and aligning your mastery with your unique attributes, gifts, proclivities, etc.”

Getting to wl7 requires a fair amount of self knowledge, inquiry, and inner work for sure, to be able to pursue such a culturally misunderstood path among other things. But you’re still working out the basics of the craft (of resilient renaissance living etc).

Actually that might be a good metaphor? Up to wl7 is somewhat akin to learning the fundamentals of a craft like painting. Wl8 is where you possess adequate technical mastery of craft to begin expressing your own unique style of art and Creativity to the work in a truly focused, deep, masterful etc way. Masters don’t think about brushstrokes because those are so deeply embodied by that point: their focus is on the sensation or experience they’re trying to convey with their piece, which is a function of deep inner processes.

[jacob]

V interesting. The part that's curious to me is that wl7-8 is where jacob sees the inner work begin. To me, the inner work is the work. It's only after the inner work is done that it unspools out into "reality." And without the inner work, no action taken in reality will be persistent or stable. Thus I often find myself on the other side of what's considered "success" in this forum: why do you keep navel-gazing? Why aren't you taking action, action, action?? Because action without the navel-gazing is pointless striving, threading water. Effort for the sake of efforting. I also mostly talk about navel-gazing - mostly because the outer action isn't that complex; the "right things to do" might have been a major original contribution on jacob's part but once the system's been explained, it's not rocket science. Once the inner work is done, the outer action follows and it's almost pointless to talk about, it's a natural, effortless result. Not that I consider myself a wl7+, I guess I'm just sharing.

The inner work in this regard is resolving the freedom-to issue. WL1-7 is increasingly about casting off the chains in Plato's Cave. They will be fully off by WL7. However, I don't think very many have a good idea about what they will do with freedom-to, because they've never really been free before. Most people to a large extent follow expectations or pick between a series of options that society or their environment gives them. "You can choose any education you want, but you're definitely getting a degree!"

At WL8 you're now in a position to create your own choices instead of choosing those made available by others. It seems like actualization is doing this in and informed and deliberate way. I'll stipulate a lot of people have a difficult time separating their own opinions from those of their social circle or their culture at large. They may think they're making their own choices but are they really? In any case, from WL7 onwards, it's all on the person, because there's basically no excuse like "I'm just doing what I have to in order to make a living" or "wouldn't my status or even society collapse if I went in a different direction".

I think there is a lot of inner work done in therapeutic safe spaces resolving trauma or what have you. For WL8 it's specifically the inner work of actualization---which is a rare thing, because not very many people actually self-actualize(*). In order to self-actualize, you have to know who the "self" is you're trying to actualize. It's not self-actualizing when someone is just copying or following someone else. Basically, self-actualization follows the good old CCCCCC-chain with the majority of people basically just copying or comparing. Some compile. That's what I've been doing a lot of since retiring. Trying many different things. There comes a point of Calculating where you understand yourself really well and what you can and can not do. For example, I know that I should not try to "organize community". It seems like a good idea, but my heart is definitely not in it and as such, me trying to organize people is not self-actualizing.

(*) In particular, even fewer do it in an informed way seeking good consequences. I'm thinking of the stereotypical spiritual bypassers who figure they're going to reinvent themself on a farm in Nepal and thus cash out their 401k only to crash and burn. Next year, they're off to art school, except they end up serving fries to afford it. The year after, they marry a rich banker, but that doesn't last long. Self-actualization w/o skill capital is but an ongoing train wreck.

[jacob]

It's worth having at least some understanding of ego development theory. I did not learn about EDT until AFTER constructing the WL table. In that regard, it's remarkable yet not surprising that the WL table lines up with the various EDTs that have been proposed. They also more or less line up with one another, so the ERE WLs just add yet another to the collection.

Here's an intro https://www.sloww.co/ego-development-th ... k-greuter/ ... and this seminal paper (97 pages) is worthwhile: http://onesystemonevoice.com/resources/ ... 5B1$5D.pdf If you still want more get a hold of Loevinger's book to see how it all started. Cook-Greuter is a more nuanced expansion of the Loevinger stages.

In EDT terms, WL1-5 comprise the conventional ego group ending up with WL5 as the most advanced stages being self-determining (within the conventions). WL6+ are all post-conventional. This is why the break between WL5 and WL6 is the hardest one, because it breaks with conventions and establishes new conventions... or rather WL6 transcends and includes the previous convention---it's not just imagining things or making shit up. WL6 is actually rooted in reality.

WL6 and WL7 are the self-questioning stages. You're asking yourself---your conventional thoughts---why are we doing it this way and not that way. Do I really need to spend money on this. Do I really need to do it that way. Why work 40 years in a job just to buy stuff and have material status? This line of inquiry is essentially post-conventional education in how the world works and how to work the world.

WL8 is the self-actualizing or "autonomous" stage. This is the stage where individuals can do (any)thing independent of [questioning] conventional ideas. They just know without having to ponder skills or theory. See @AHs example of painting. WL8 does not focus on technique. The focus is on informed self-expression. In that regard, WL8 is making real art---conveying a feeling---cf. a 5th grader's painting. We might generously call that art, but they're not really conveying a feeling about anything as much as they're just splatting paint on paper.

To the uninformed [conventional] ego, they can't tell the difference. It basically takes one to know one. It's either "despair" or "screaming balloon-head?".

This is also where the "infinite game" begins to take focus. Everything conventional is a finite game. You figure out the answer. You specialize in becoming good at answers. WL8 is about asking questions (and answering them correctly). Not in the idiot-way but asking the right questions (in terms of how does one keep all this sense-making machinery going. Scientists might think of it as doing original research on life's meaning. Liberal arts people might think of it as self-authoring their own script instead of following someone else's.

[7Wannabe5]

In particular, even fewer do it in an informed way seeking good consequences. I'm thinking of the stereotypical spiritual bypassers who figure they're going to reinvent themself on a farm in Nepal and thus cash out their 401k only to crash and burn. Next year, they're off to art school, except they end up serving fries to afford it. The year after, they marry a rich banker, but that doesn't last long. Self-actualization w/o skill capital is but an ongoing train wreck.

OTOH, this could actually be a good description of self-actualization for an ENTP (The Enthuiastic Generalist Explorer) if approached in a self-aware manner. The conventional social pressure on an ENTP is the notion that you have to stick with something for 40 years in order to be successful/fulfilled/actualized. Maybe an ENTP could stay in the same career, married to the same other human, living in the same place, and engaged in the same hobbies for 40 years, but it seems highly unlikely unless under extreme duress. IOW, self-actualization for an ENTP requires the art of the graceful exit and/or the construction of the orthogonal tunnel of interest.

I mean, if you as Totalitarian Leader were reaching into a hat and handing out randomly assigned 10 year lifestyle designs/challenges to the members of this forum, and the slip you handed to me read "Explore agriculture in Nepal for 3 years then go to art school for 3 years then become the primary polyamorous partner of a banker for 3 years.", I would be like : Yay! Whew! Thank the Goddess I didn't get the slip that says 'Work full-time job in IT for 9 years."" I actually experienced a small hit of dopamine just reading that small list of possiblilities. For an ENTP, inhabiting the delusion that you are going to stick with wearing the same costume day in and day out for 10 years in a row is the dysfunctional, non-self-aware practice that inhibits self-actualization.

For example, for me serial monogamy was kind of an ongoing train wreck, but polyamory hasn't been. It's like during the 3 years in Nepal I made a lifelong friend with whom I keep in regular contact and learned some skills which I still apply to my current community gardening practice, etc. etc. etc. And in general all these experiences contributed to my primary NeTi purpose which is explore-> update the map. As far as saving money goes, I really only care about having enough roll to finance my next exploration, although obviously it would be very useful to have as much as I could possibly need towards access and optionality, just like it would also be super-super-useful to still have the physiology I possessed at age 21. However, it has been my experience that being very frugal/creative usually provides enough access/optionality without the need for larger fund. OTOH, I can empathize that an INTJ who actualizes towards Mastery and seriously does not enjoy Hustling would need/want more of a clean white framed canvas towards self-actualization.

[xmj]

Seems like another ladder that might map, but the mapping will only go so far.

Judging by the EDT Stage Overview GoogleDoc I recognize my past-self in the later years of university and early years of self-employment (ca. 2014/2015) as self-questioning. Would classify as actualizing (per EDT) by 2019, 2020 at the latest. Have been thinking along Construct-aware frames and questions for ~2 years now.

As mentioned... I've had a lot of time for navel-gazing.

Be aware that ego development and the related inner work is decoupled from financial aspects for most people who take a more 'live and let live' approach to finances - most of mine happened at savings rates between near-zero and highly negative.

You don't *need* a perfectly harmonized homeotelic Web of Goals to self-actualize. It helps, but that's a very different question.

And the "infinite game" may start way earlier.

Addendum: As an afterthought, I attribute a lot of the navel-gazing and time for thinking about this to ... pumping iron.

[jacob]

I'd suggest going to page 51 of the Cook Greuter link (pdf page #53), the page with the arch diagram.

Note the pre-conventional ("Don't tell me what to do, I do what I want") and the conventional ("I do what I'm told to do") are described as the "self" being "socially programmed" (or not programmed at all(*)).

(*) The "Don't tell me what to do, I do what I want"-demographic of society tends to continually struggle getting into trouble but it's generally a case of doing it to themselves due to not thinking about the consequences of their actions. They tend to be stupid about consequences often hurting themselves but also randomly hurting others. This demographic has a strong habit of projecting their personal faults onto others.

The Loevinger/Cook-Greuter arch is much like the FIRE/ERE sample but sampled across the entire population.

The post-conventional side is self-programmed. A pluralist begins to take their own societal programming apart(**) learning that there are other perspectives. Conversely, a strategist puts different perspectives together to form new strategies. To actually succeed requires doing both. Likely an iterative cycle.

(**) Boomeritis is when this misfires and people just repeat slogans that deconstructs other people's societal programming. Also see pre-conventional.

In terms of "lived experience", it might be that the liberal arts focus on taking things apart (postmodernism/deconstructionism) whereas STEM is more focused on putting things together in a way that works effectively (modernism/post-postmodernism). In the ERE WL table, pluralism is WL6 (realizing that there are many different skills, not just money skills). Strategism is WL7 (being able to put these skills together into a coherent system).

As we saw in previous discussions (WL6->WL7) it's a really bad idea to try to speed-run this. If speed-run, pluralists may end up with nonsense strategies because they suffer from the belief that any belief or approach is as good as any other. This ultimately leads nowhere even if it's great fun [to themselves]. Conversely, strategists may end up with weak strategies if they do not (first?) root them experientally by questioning and pursuing different skills and perspectives. Software engineers tend to be a particularly guilty lot here ... believing that "knowing about" something is the same as "knowing" something #toomuchabstraction

In reality, good self-programming depends on both!

Or as Kant liked to say: "Theory without practice is empty; practice without theory is blind."

In other words, just asking questions and experiencing creativeness passively without actually doing any creating actively is "empty". OTOH, doing stuff while ignoring other perspectives is blind.

The self-actualization or autonomous behavior is what Cook Greuter (and I forget which other guy .. begins with T IIRC) calls the "magician" stage. Not in the "woo"-sense but being able to quickly see the underlying principles of an issue and proceed to resolve it.

Maslow had some suggestions about the self-actualizing person, including but not limited to:

• An efficient perception of reality. Seeing reality, as it is, not as societal programming defines it, nor as the self-serving ego would prefer it to be. (No ego projection allowed!)
• Acceptance of oneself and others.
• Believing in a task that is greater than the ego or personally fun fulfillment. They have a purpose greater than themselves.
• Autonomous. Their purpose is not subsumed in someone else's structure. They're on a mission on their own first and foremost. Not caring to be cog in someone else's system.

I think Boyd is also an example of WL9. See https://www.amazon.com/Boyd-Fighter-Pil ... 0316796883

[7Wannabe5]

Believing in a task that is greater than the ego or personally fun fulfillment. They have a purpose greater than themselves.

Gotcha. So, for example, creating a model of a frugal lifestyle that other humans might actually copy because it seems like it might actually be fun could be towards fulfilling a purpose greater than oneself, whereas complaining about the reality that most humans like having fun would be in violation of:

An efficient perception of reality. Seeing reality, as it is, not as societal programming defines it, nor as the self-serving ego would prefer it to be. (No ego projection allowed!)

J.K. Obviously, the general model you created in "ERE" the book allows for personal fun fulfillment flexibility. One can even have one's free time pudding simultaneous to one's work-for-money meat with the part-time or intermittent work variation. I just believe this should be advertised more widely. Unfortunately, I am currently too decrepit to volunteer as Super-Fun Super-Frugal Lifestyle spokesmodel.

[jacob]

Insofar the purpose of humanity is "higher ego development"---involuting the universe, if you will---is whether your purpose/what you're doing/the example you're setting (and thus the purpose of humanity or the universe writ large) inspires the next lower level.

IOW, if you're self-actualizing, are you inspiring the strategists? If you're strategizing, are you inspiring the skill learners? If you're learning skills (the DIY threads) are you inspiring the 401k-bucket-optimizer people? And so on. (I'm aware how this does not exactly defines a direction as much a just a progression of forward movement towards greater understanding.)

If not, maybe you've falling off of the great chain of change. Or perhaps the great change of being. Static. Dynamic. There may be two chains here. Afterall, what's the end point. Being, change, back, forth. Tit for tat. They both interact.

This prescriptive structure might be overly normative, but it definitely suggests a direction and a way to go forward. OTOH, it might create too much pressure in terms of spending a lifetime setting an example "pushing forward" [towards a local minimum] as opposed to playing around and discovering something new at random or unlocking a local minimum. Keep in mind that a random strategy has a cost too. Leaning back and enjoying life might serve the purpose of retrenching the position.

[7Wannabe5]

maybe you've falling off of the great chain of change. Or perhaps the great change of being.

Yes, that's it. Like a Teletubby who DIY'd herself a pair of wax wings out of crayon nubbins and popsicle sticks and then had to release all 3 of her cellophane candy wrapper parachutes before landing "oof" upon her plush bottom at Ground Zero once more.

Of course, the good thing about being a Teletubby is that at least you aren't a Porcelain Figurine...


Seriously, thanks for this reply. I nominate as one of your best posts ever. Also one of your most humorous, although the original Teletubby comment had me chuckling for hours.