Spending higher end to force less usage/lower cost

[KRUMPn]

Has anyone had luck with purchasing more expensive versions of items to trigger a cut back in usage of said item (and therefore decrease overall cost)? In my case I'm wondering if I order fresh frozen green Kava from Hawaii (probably about double the price or more of what I have been drinking), if that would limit my usage or if I would just end up blowing more money attempting this strategy. I don't want to limit this to just Kava since I'm guessing there an few if any on the forum that consume it regularly, so feel free to include experiences with any item that is a regular consumption item. I think alcohol would be an obvious comparison, but again I don't want to limit this to just one set of consumption items.

[Blackjack]

I’m not sure I understand the logic of this. Do you just want to blow through your allocated budget more quickly for this good, and then assume your budgeting will (that wants to keep your budget items inline) exceeds your want to use the substance (on which I think you are associating happiness and relaxation with, due to the chemistry and usage of said compound)? Because I think I know which part of your brain is going to win out in that game.

[basuragomi]

I do this with eating out. Buying extra dishes or higher-end dishes. It reinforces that restaurants are solely for stuff I can't make myself, and the oodles of leftovers makes the experience both last longer so it becomes a multi-day affair which takes more planning. 150% cost < 2*100% cost kind of thing. I could also never eat out at all but that's hardly fun.

Another thing is only buying fresh produce when it's locally in season, since that's the only time it tastes good. I only buy fresh watermelon, nectarines, asparagus, strawberries etc. when they are locally in season because it's the only time they taste like they should. Do that long enough and the expensive bland imported winter stuff is too boring/disgusting to even consider eating.

Final method is to get high-end stuff that is materially different in composition than low-end stuff. Things like 95% dark chocolate, 10% milk fat yogurt, full-fat custard-base ice cream, unhydrogenated peanut butter, the expensive cannabis strains that are like 25% THC. Things that leave you equally sated with much less consumption. You can train yourself to consume less of the cheap stuff using the good stuff too.

[jacob]

The constraint against higher spending does not appear to be built in, so it relies on some kind of additional personal discipline or rule. The experiment should be cheap to run.

I did do something similar, which did a built-in structural constraint, during my "buy the best"-phase (later to be replaced with "buy appropriate to usage", see ERE book). "Buying the best" eliminates the consumer-driven desire to upgrade or replace because there's nothing better to upgrade to + why would one replace anything with an inferior product.

[Scott 2]

I would frame this as prioritizing quality of experience over quantity.

The shift may include consumption of more expensive inputs. However - it is a lower Wheaton level way of problem solving. Using money as the primary resource, cost often reflects a lack of resilience in the solution. Hopefully, we can find ways to introduce inputs of skill, knowledge and time.

Taking beer as an example, moving from lower to higher wheaton levels:

1. Getting drunk on light american pilsner - miller light, bud light, etc.
2. Getting drunk on Pseudo craft beer (adding money) - blue moon, Guinness
3. Tasting craft beer from local breweries (adding skill and knowledge, the process starts to take center stage)
4. Brewing for yourself (adding skill, re-allocating money towards growth, process even more important, maybe use some relationships from tastings)
5. Brewing to share with family / friends (beer bought for ideas only, starts producing net gain of social capital, identity is built, experiences no money can buy)

For me personally - I tend to hang out in the "tasting" level of things. Consume a little less overall, but focus on maximizing the experience. I am very aware this falls short of an ERE mindset. I struggle to take the next steps - producing for myself, and especially producing for others.

Trading social capital with someone brewing for others would be another ERE tier approach to the problem, IMO.

[KRUMPn]

@Blackjack Maybe I worded this poorly. The intent would be to spend the equivalent amount, but end up with less (albeit higher quality) of said item. With less on hand controlling consumption may be easier. My thinking is a long the same lines of groceries, where it seems easier to limit myself at the point of sale (i.e. don't buy it) than to limit myself once I have it. Dark chocolate would be another thing that I struggle with in this regard. If I have a couple bars on hand I can go through them in a day or two. If I don't have them on hand I don't have the urge to order or run to the store to get them.

@basuragomi I think we are of the same mind. I generally don't enjoy eating out when it's something I can make myself, since I usually make it better tuned to the way I like it. Things I can't or won't make are a whole different matter like you say since it allows an addition of new flavors without the upfront cost to make a single complex dish (I'm looking at you Crab Cake Benedict!). The Kava I'm referring two appears to be in a whole different realm from what I have so I think it fits what you are saying about higher end goods. So maybe looking at it is a good training tool is the way to go?

@jacob I have very much adopted the buy the best (and avoid the single use items) recommended in the book. My only concern is if this would apply to consumption items (coffee, tea, alcohol) since it's not something you "upgrade" through replacement, although I guess buying up when current stock runs out may be considered upgrading. Unfortunately I have too much left in my stocks, so I'm not sure I can run this experiment until after I run out, otherwise I'll just have high-end and regular quality stuff and more than likely just go overboard. I'll bee sure to report back when I get around to it.

@Scott 2 Maybe alcohol isn't the best analogue. I made it up to number 5 on your list back when I was brewing mead and drinking regularly. I switched to Kava since the effects dissipate fast enough to allow me to drive home after a night of indulgence (if kept to a semi-reasonable amount) and I have come to enjoy the effects more than alcohol. Unfortunately, I'm not going to have any luck growing my own, since it is a very finicky tropical plant. I have tried sharing brewed Kava with others, but it is definitely an acquired taste (tastes like peppery dirt water). Maybe all of this is a reason to move away from this and switch to limited consumption of alcohol since it's easier to find/make and I don't seem to have a self control issue with it.

[mountainFrugal]

My friend is really into tea and orders a lot of high-end stuff through tea import clubs to try a variety without being stuck with a high-end product he does not like. At the same time he has been cultivating a pretty good tea ceremony so his high-end consumption is tied to a meditative ritual for maximum enjoyment of smaller, but higher quality amounts.

[Blackjack]

My friend is really into tea and orders a lot of high-end stuff through tea import clubs to try a variety without being stuck with a high-end product he does not like. At the same time he has been cultivating a pretty good tea ceremony so his high-end consumption is tied to a meditative ritual for maximum enjoyment of smaller, but higher quality amounts.

If you are talking about gong-fu, I do a similar thing, especially with friends, though I still consume a large enough volume of tea that I have separate selections for tea with friends (higher quality) vs daily drinking (lower but still good quality and highly keyed in to what I specifically like to consume). There is also a japanese tea ceremony, but it generally only uses matcha, which you don't necessarily need to trial many different types from different regions, as the taste is generally very close (and I'm sure a small amount of highly selective people will get very mad at me for saying that).

[mountainFrugal]

If you are talking about gong-fu...

Yes! It has been fun to see how as the depth of his knowledge grew the descriptors and specification of how the tea was prepared also grew. I think that he has also learned Japanese Tea Ceremony, but I have not partaken in that with him. He does consume less now and treats it as a meditation even if just serving himself.

Care to share your daily drinker variety? It could be a nice change from coffee.

[WFJ]

Higher priced goods can often result in a higher utility per dollar consumed. Maybe a rich cheesecake? I will usually buy better ice cream in smaller containers as one taste will grow old quickly rather than buying one flavor in larger containers and believe I get more utility from small batches of different varieties. The same could be said for interacting with the opposite sex, but might result in other, more costly side effects that must be estimated before engaging in this logical activity.

[Toska2]

I have a set of either machined or polished smooth cast iron pans (only one griswald). They cost 2-3x of cheap cast irons and will outlast nonstick pans by 100 years*. Food will stick sometimes and its a bear to clean but imo its a good mix of longevity and nonstick.

* Electric ranges will shorten the lifespan as they provide too much local heat causing warping.

I have several higher end wool sweaters that are home use only. Its my ritual to put them on and lower the temp when relaxing. I wear cheap clothing at work and doing chores. Its probably a mental thing and not a money thing (that I can measure).

I have a brooks spring saddle for my bike. I ride more because I dont have to wear bike shorts on 10-15 mile rides.

[KRUMPn]

Just wanted to throw a quick update on this:
I realized after all of these discussions that I am already doing this heavily with tea and coffee and I can definitely agree with @WFJ that higher end definitely brings more utility per dollar. The same goes for a nice Tequila, for me that is. I had a chance to test this out with the fresh frozen kava, however I don't know if it holds true. I believe this is most likely because there is a certain amount required before I can be satisfied with a session. Add to that the varieties I can get fresh frozen are less "potent" at least for me, so the cost per session is astronomical compared to dried. So my conclusion is that this would not work with consumables that require a set amount to acheive the desired utility. Tea and coffee don't have this issue because I can savor the flavor and get as much out of larger servings. I have less interest in alcohol lately and therefore it can actually start to require less to get the desired utility due to lack of tolerance and irregular consumption. Kava seems to be the opposite in both regards (especially since taste is very low on the things that impact a session positively/negatively). So for kava, I believe the best route to minimize cost and maximize utility is to find sources that are inexpensive, but have enough quality to create minimal cost sessions. This has definitely clarified my thinking as far as consumable goods and quality/price/utility ratios.

@mountainFrugal I'm not the OP you were responding to, but I used to be into gong-fu style tea before I switched over to mostly matcha and I was a big fan of Golden Monkey black tea, most any Oolong tea (I couldn't tell you the exact varieties I preferred) and I had a Taiwanese GABA green tea that was super tasty.

[Sclass]

There’s a chapter in Infinite Jest where David Foster Wallaces’s autobiographical character buys the most potent weed he can afford. Plans to smoke it all in isolation over a weekend. The intent was to get so sick with hyperemisis he will convince himself to quit his addiction.

It seemed like a strange approach to quitting. Reminded me of this thread.

Anyone recall that one? It was strange. He debates having sex with his female dealer out of politeness because she usually insists on it but it doesn’t fit his methodical plan to over intoxicate himself so he brushes her off. It was pretty clear that his character wants to hurt himself as a form of discipline. I try not to remember such nonsense but this one hangs around in my mind.

I cannot say I’ve ever thought of buying good stuff to discourage myself from using too much. The logic doesn’t work for my mind.