Stuff --- A cluttered life

[jacob]

The author is also of the floor-sitting, floor (mattress<-I think this one or similar)-sleeping variety. He specifically discusses going beyond "Spark of Joy" as a reason for keeping things around. I'd compare him to Peter Lawrence.

There's a talk by Fumio Sasaki here.

I mainly found it interesting to see what minimalism looks like from a Japanese perspective. (Apparently Japan has its own minimalist blog community which is as large the US one as far as I can tell.) Apparently the pressure to perform (and there's lots of that) is commonly expressed via the things one buys, owns, and displays. For example, he was buying books (that wasn't read) to show himself off as a well-read man); ditto, antique cameras, kitchen appliances, etc. so a lot of effort trying to maintain an image via stuff.

I think some people can relate to that. I couldn't really. I came more at it from my tendency to start new hobbies and acquire all the associated stuff only to abandon them after 6-12 months. I have a history of that (I've spent years dealing with the sins of my past behavior... stored in my parents' attic, finally cleared out some years ago) and although I've curbed my enthusiasm significantly, I still have that drive. I've channeled it into a maker/repairer culture for ERE and it definitely saves loads of money (as well as the environment for future use), but like how FS felt he spent too much time focusing on maintaining/building an image, I sometimes feel like I spend too much time fixing shit.

Example: Neighbor offers me a free new slightly-broken slow-cooker (not really known in Danish cooking, but supremely useful---if I couldn't have a pressure cooker, I'd have a slow cooker) from his mother's soon-to-be estate. Value, maybe $20. She was prone to buying stuff off from QVC (a late-night home shopping channel for people with credit cards ) and has lots of stuff like that sitting around. I stupidly do not say no. After leaving it sitting in the basement for many month, it finally reaches the front of my mental "queue". I bring it up and take it apart. It's not designed to be repaired so I have to bodge it. After lots (hours) of research, I figure that the easiest but most expensive system is to get a 3D printer to create the broken plastic part. I also research various plastic glues. I try to make a wood replacement that breaks. Eventually, I figure that I can rig it with some aluminum DOM tubing, a 6-32 bolt, and a 6-32 nut. But while I have 6-32 bolts, I'm out of 6-32 nuts (I gave all of mine away to another ERE guy a couple of years ago)... what's the cheapest way to get that? I went to Harbor Freight (the Harald Nyborg of the US) but they don't sell any assortment with small nuts anymore. ARGH! So maybe buy 10lbs assorted nuts for $20 on eBay and hoping the best. Or vastly overpaying to get a few aerospace graded nuts at some specialty store. Or finding 100 6-32 nuts at eBay for $5 out of which I'm going to use 1. In short order, I will have a fully functional slow-cooker that I don't actually need because I have one already.

So in some ways I have similar issues ... I'm not trying to show off, but I am trying to rescue things in the same way that some people are always trying to rescue pets. Anyhoo ...

In the kitchen, FS is down to the standard set of a couple of bowls, plates, no more than what can fit in a bucket or a backpack... so pretty much where I was in grad school/junior postdoc minus the ability to cook with heat. I only saw bowls and plates in the picture (the book has a dozen pics) but that doesn't mean that they aren't there elsewhere.

In my experience with minimalists (at that level, sample size 4-5 persons, so enough to do rule-of-thumb t-tests), they're all willing and eager to shell out (typically renting or borrowing) or capable of saying no when it comes to more complex problems. I've come to expect that you can't take extreme minimalists sailing, fishing, hiking, ... because they simply lack the equipment to go where yoga mats, purple tank tops, and five-finger shoes won't go.

Also eating. Many eat out constantly. But that's okay. While minimalism often highlight its inherent money-saving qualities, it's not as effective as the "ERE maker"-attitude.

To contrast and compare, his book has sold 150k copies. The ERE book has sold 32k copies.

[Campitor]

Minimalism for its own sake isn't appealing. Watching the Peter Lawrence video, I can't help but feel that minimalism is his form of "porn". He has no furniture except for his sleeping bag and desk but continues to live in this excessively large space. He could be renting a smaller space at less cost or leasing that property (does he own it?) while living in a small RV/trailer. He can put the savings in investments to help him generate income.

And the little possessions he has are kept, in my opinion, in disarray. His equipment has no cable management, his clothes are organized poorly. Despite the paucity of items in his space, his home looks messy to me. Compare it to this tiny house: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VckbqU4kK2I. The spaces feel completely different and I attribute that to the organization and order of the items within the tiny space - the lines are clean, cables are hidden, things are situated logically and discreetly. Minimalism doesn't require an absence of order and beauty. Traditional Japanese minimalism incorporated beauty and simplicity in order to achieve a state of zen. There is nothing zen about Peter Lawrence's place.

I understand the concept of minimalism - hence my 4 rules I mentioned earlier. But I'm a strong believer in organization and beauty as well - and minimalism should incorporate this otherwise you wind up with the frumpled homeless decor that Peter Lawrence seems to be enraptured with.

[Jason]

I watched the Minimalism movie which now that I'm writing that sentence seems somewhat of an oxymoron.

Western minimalism is a response to Western consumerism which implies the usual Western hypocrisy: you have to have had a lot of unnecessary shit in the first place which means you have a job, a home, etc. Our concept of minimalism is insulting and condescending to anyone living in a less prosperous society. It's easy to say I don't want things when I can afford those things in the first place. Not that it's wrong, I find it helpful. But just spare us the self-righteous, Dalai Lama bullshit.

[ducknalddon]

I watched the Minimalism movie which now that I'm writing that sentence seems somewhat of an oxymoron.

Pretty much everybody in that movie seemed to be dealing with some emotional problem in their life, the minimalism always followed excess consumption driven by whatever issue they had.

[JWJones]

Western minimalism is a response to Western consumerism which implies the usual Western hypocrisy: you have to have had a lot of unnecessary shit in the first place which means you have a job, a home, etc. Our concept of minimalism is insulting and condescending to anyone living in a less prosperous society. It's easy to say I don't want things when I can afford those things in the first place. Not that it's wrong, I find it helpful. But just spare us the self-righteous, Dalai Lama bullshit.

Pretty much everybody in that movie seemed to be dealing with some emotional problem in their life, the minimalism always followed excess consumption driven by whatever issue they had.

Also saw that movie. It felt to me mostly like a promotional film for those two guys and their book. It also struck me as mostly people coming from a "I had a six-figure income and consumed/owned a ton of shit, but felt like an empty douchebag" perspective.

[Jason]

Leave it to the Swedes to bring death into the equation:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... b259bb2b67

[7Wannabe5]

@Jason:

I actually thought about starting something like a "death cleaning" business based on my current experience of trying to help my aging mother maintain independent living situation. It's not just that having too much stuff or too much house leaves more work for others after your death, it creates more work for other people if/when you become too enfeebled to clean or maintain all your stuff yourself.

[Jason]

I think there is another side to this as well: in a world of mass produced cheap products, there really are no longer heirlooms that are valuable enough for aging selfish children to fight over anymore. Nobody wants their parents shit anymore.

[7Wannabe5]

True. I have become something of an expert on how to do everything expected of a Midwestern Mom using only as much stuff as I can store in one medium-large hard-sided thrift-store suitcase. I whip out the Ugly Santa candy dish, cute picture of my kids at cute age wearing cute red pajamas, the multi-purpose strand of white mini-lights, ruffled apron,and tiny mistletoe from my sentimental storage suitcase. Then grab scissors and tape from my portable office suitcase. Rustle up scrap papers and snip-snip-snip some snowflakes and chains. Festoon whatever most resembles a tree in the vicinity. Dollar store box of peppermint candy canes. Arrange anything resembling evergreen boughs around anything resembling candles on anything resembling a hearth. Chop up veggies, rip up bread, and fill the cavity of a vegetable and/or bird. Bake some kind of pie. Text boyfriend to remember to pick up some eggnog on his way. Bing Crosby loop playing on laptop. Voila! Home for the Holidays!! 3 hours max not counting roasting/baking time.

[jacob]

@7 - It's called a "senior move manager" See http://www.nextavenue.org/senior-move-m ... -relocate/ ... Regular dehoarding services also provide such services although perhaps with less psychological support. Another problem here is that once you reach that age, people around you start dying regularly. Unless you're careful, this can result in merging households. If you're the one "who got the room", then you'll end up with parents' and uncle's complete households in your attic/garage/ ...

I was once hired to help out for a weekend in a two story home + garage + RV. Everything was filled due to two family members dying in short order. I mean filled; every horizontal surface was covered to about waist height. It took us an hour to make it to the back of the living room.

jacob: "What about this stack of old USA Today papers, can I just throw them out?"
owner: "Nah, I gotta go through them first to see if there's something interesting."

jacob: "So there's this thing called freecycle and craigslist. We can just list it there and start moving excess stuff onto the front lawn and people will come and pick it up."
owner:

I didn't have the personality for it. After two days, I don't think anything was actually gotten rid off, but we did beat a path to various rooms and recovered some artifact that the owner was sure was left over in the bottom corner of a room. I think it was a stapler.

@Jason - The other reason children (we're really talking 30-50 yos here) don't want the mahogany credenza ("But it would look nice with your VCR, honey?!") is because they've gotten used to how they can buy matching/decent-looking furniture from Ikea for some hundred bucks per room; then throw it out and rebuy for their next career move. Unlike the solid wood, it's only designed to last <0-2 decades or 1-2 moves before the veneer falls off, but that doesn't matter since it's not coming along anyway; and consumers have come to expect furniture to be matching, so the odd antique end-table is not going to fit in anyway. Similarly no interest is rubbing the samovar and candle holders with brasso every month or dusting off the giant figurine collection.

Another issue is the time-bombs that parents prepare for their 20-30 yos. They're sitting on your old toys and middle school essays only waiting for the day when you have enough space because surely you want to read your 6th grade efforts and surely modern children in case you have any would love to play with used toys from decades ago.

Denmark industrialized in the 1930s (reached parity with agriculture) and my grandparents were still in the mode of starting a "collection" of towels and utensils so that I would have them for when I moved out (20yos) instead of suffering through years of need until I could afford good linens. That was the time when the definition of having made it into middle-class living was a set of 12 utensils with each knife and fork and odd kinds of spoons (3+) lined up and polished on some kind of green felt tray... keeping it in your damn credenza .. and taking it out for special visitors. By the time I became aware of it, I managed to stop the utensil collecting, but I ended up with a lifetime of towels and dishcloths (I'm still working my way through them.) When I moved out the first time, I did exactly what the consumer generation did at that time. Went to Target/Ikea and spent a <thousand bucks for everything.

Basically the world is drowning in stuff. The issue is that the "family-market" is inefficient/not-clearing (not enough customers) even if it's free.

[Jason]

I was having a discussion yesterday at the sheer size of warehouse requirements - 500K to 1 million. Why? Cheap shit manufactured overseas with limited life spans need to be warehoused and distributed before being purchased by consumer.

This also extends to office furniture. Most offices when they move, leave their furniture behind. Most movers now have an ancillary used office furniture business on the side because in actuality, they are not moving but only removing.

[slowtraveler]

I loved this book. Checked it out at my local library. Noticed the kitchen being the most used space in every single country I go to. Bedrooms and bathrooms were used sparingly. A whole family could realistically share one of these and be fine, assuming some decent social skills.

Some family members of mine hoard. It's sad to see they have so much clutter and still go to flea markets seeking more. I never understand why they want a 5th high quality jacket.

[SustainableHappiness]

Currently about halfway through the Japanese Minimalism book. Some things come to mind;

1) This guys life sucked regardless of the amount of stuff he had, a lot of the issues he describes are behavioural (alchohol abuse, job dissatisfaction). While I am glad that he realized the uselessness of stuff and how his ego was tied to it and he used stuff cleansing as an impetus for life cleansing... This is good, but the feeling of non-attachment from things can be achieved without physically removing things from your life. That being said, I 100% agree that "clutter" (whatever your definition of it is) is a -1 to the happiness of life, NOT a 0 or a +1 affect.

2) Simplification priorities in my mind are, Primary = simplify life activities (i.e. don't overschedule, don't overwork, leave lots of free time). Secondary = simplify stuff...This is also due to my life circumstance where simplifying life, actually results in less arguments than simplifying stuff (easier to lead through activities than through trying to convince DWs family + friends to stop giving/receiving gifts with little function)

3) I've spoken with my friend from South Korea about these sorts of things and he and his wife both agree that social symbolism via stuff is actually MORE important in Korea than in Canada and he in particular was concerned about the amount of virtual vs real connection in South Korea (e.g. Starcraft = a national sport). Not trying to conflate Korea and Japans value systems, but with the concept of "face" being high in both cultures it would make sense if this was similar in both countries.

Anyways, it's a good read and led to good conversations with DW. But it also fired me up with passionate emotional energy to "cleanse" our apartment to achieve our emotional goals. This is a dangerous place to be when only one member of the family is charged with it and after about a 12 hour cool-down from one particularly invigorating conversation with my father-in-law I realized that the futility of passionately maximizing is akin to the futility of passionately minimizing and both have negative implications.

[jennypenny]

Sasaki's book is the deal of the day on audible today (10/23) for $1.95 ... https://www.audible.com/pd/Bios-Memoirs ... 0929179LNL

[7Wannabe5]

@jacob:

My business would be more like a Senior Stay Facilitator. Assisted Living is so expensive, there are many intermediary solutions that could prove to be happier and less expensive. For instance, maybe an elderly man owns a three bedroom house and has a pet dog, but now his knee is blown. The Senior Stay Facilitator could clean out the clutter in the two extra bedroom, convert them into spare high-tech spaces in which young people would feel comfortable, and then find a grad student who would be happy to acquire one free room in exchange for lawn mowing and dog walking, and another who would be happy to barter very light housekeeping. The core of the system would be a key-keeper program shared by elderly client and next-responsible-decision-maker(perhaps 50 something year old daughter who lives 300 miles away) in conjunction with the Senior Stay Facilitator. The program will be modular and flexible, so if, for instance, the elderly client experiences successful physical therapy of knee-function, the need for light housekeeping provider/house-mate can be downgraded from Code Red to Code Yellow, and the spare room previously bartered for service, can now serve as source of cash flow towards potential future needs.