Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Health, Fitness, Food, Insurance, Longevity, Diets,...
Smashter
Posts: 545
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:05 am
Location: Midwest USA

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by Smashter »

Dave wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:53 pm
All of the things I am most embarrassed of occurred under the influence, but to be honest a good portion of my most fun times did, too.
I feel similarly! What if, on balance, those peak experiences are just worth the downside? I guess each person has to answer that for themselves. I got to a point where the hangover was just not worth it. And I wanted to set an example for my family members who struggle with alcohol abuse, though that hasn't had nearly the effect I was hoping it would.

If the pharmaceutical companies ever develop a pill that instantly cures a hangover I could see myself drinking again on special occasions.

I've been buoyed along in my journey by the fact that I repeatedly have awesome sober experiences doing things I at one point heavily associated with being drunk — dancing like a madman at weddings, having deep and uninhibited talks with friends, going out to dinner with a group of coworkers for the first time, etc. I feel like each time it happens it drives home the point to my brain that while the experience might not be quite as awesome as when I’m drunk, it’s still pretty great. And I feel even better when I see my hungover friends the next morning while basking in the glory of my good nights sleep.

I love hearing about everyone else’s dream experiences, haha. I was talking to a friend who is on a break from alcohol who has a different type of dream. In his, he goes out with friends, and when he refuses to drink they get mad at him. Then he feels bad. Psychoanalyze that at your leisure :)

ertyu
Posts: 2921
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by ertyu »

Smashter wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:34 pm
I've been buoyed along in my journey by the fact that I repeatedly have awesome sober experiences doing things I at one point heavily associated with being drunk — dancing like a madman at weddings, having deep and uninhibited talks with friends, going out to dinner with a group of coworkers for the first time, etc. I feel like each time it happens it drives home the point to my brain that while the experience might not be quite as awesome as when I’m drunk, it’s still pretty great.
Hahaha poor friend of yours :lol:

The pleasure of being drunk for me is alcohol making me exist in a disinhibited state. From there, it's not a long jump to concluding that to enjoy the same experiences as much sober, one must let go of one's inhibitions. At this point, there's some work to do: well, what am I inhibited about? Why am I inhibited about it? What am I scared is going to happen if I weren't inhibited about it? Stay with the answers, experientially in your body (would that be Fi or Ni?? maybe a combo of both) rather than analytically/in your head. Let go of the inhibitions that are unnecessary and enjoy life. Have that convo with your buddy. Dance like a madman at the wedding. Etcetera.

What's interesting to me about alcohol is that many alcoholics have intense amounts of shame that they're very afraid and incapable of confronting. No one likes facing shame and being with shame, but alcoholics seem to react to having to confront shame w an almost kneejerk sort of terror. This centrality of shame (vs other negative states one might be avoiding) seems to be a disproportionately common theme that emerges when I hear people report on the behavior of alcoholic relatives. Why, who knows. It's probably a chicken and egg situation, in that a drug that lowers inhibitions is probably going to result in a higher proportion of actions one is ashamed of, but I don't think that's all. I think there's something about alcohol's effects that makes it the drug of choice when one self-medicates shame.

User avatar
fiby41
Posts: 1616
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:09 am
Location: India
Contact:

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by fiby41 »

ERE way out would be to drink when it is free. This usually happens when in a social setting and there is a host involved.

Co-worker: We are going to that other city for work over the weekend. Let's drink at night.
Me: I don't think so.
Co-worker: I'll pay.
Me: ok.

True story.

The only time in my lifetime I've paid for alcohol was to 1. support a local start-up Seven Rivers which started brewing in 2020, 2. the alcohol shop was right next to where I work, 3. it was selling at the maximum retail price, 4. I wanted to try the new flavour. Which I did so I don't see myself buying alcohol again.

I've averaged drinking once after more than every 6 months after turning 18 with the most recent occasion being 3 days ago.
I'm prone to addictive behaviours and if I get over the cost as inhibition or if alcohol becomes cheaper than water/non-alcoholic drinks I can become a habitual drinker/drunkard in no time.

Scott 2
Posts: 2859
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:34 pm

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by Scott 2 »

Funny - I went dry most of this year. What got me back into drinking, was free beer at a vacation rental. I've had maybe a dozen drinks over the past 2 months. My best amount is somewhere between a couple drinks per week and nothing.

IMO the "if it's free, it's for me!" strategy is especially dangerous with alcohol. Some of the worst binge drinking I've seen is at office parties, weddings, etc.

Dave
Posts: 547
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:42 pm

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by Dave »

Smashter wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:34 pm
I feel similarly! What if, on balance, those peak experiences are just worth the downside? I guess each person has to answer that for themselves. I got to a point where the hangover was just not worth it.

...

And I wanted to set an example for my family members who struggle with alcohol abuse, though that hasn't had nearly the effect I was hoping it would....

...

I've been buoyed along in my journey by the fact that I repeatedly have awesome sober experiences doing things I at one point heavily associated with being drunk — dancing like a madman at weddings, having deep and uninhibited talks with friends, going out to dinner with a group of coworkers for the first time, etc. I feel like each time it happens it drives home the point to my brain that while the experience might not be quite as awesome as when I’m drunk, it’s still pretty great. And I feel even better when I see my hungover friends the next morning while basking in the glory of my good nights sleep.
Same here with all of this!

I've thought about the balance with that a lot. It seems situationally dependent, varying by things like age, maturity, peer group, venue, activity, etc. I think drinking is net positive (for me) sometimes, and that a balance (leaning mostly no-alcohol) is probably the best case. Like many things though, sometimes it's just easier to go all out which is where I've been the last bit here. Still, I sometimes think about what I give up and wish I was better at "balance" (a broader theme in my life, lol).

I have also failed to spur any lasting positive change in those close to me who have poor relationships with alcohol with my abastaining...it seems like this is similar to say diet or exercise. The person has to be really close and "ready".

For sure on the last part about learning that these other experiences can be great without alcohol, too. That was probably the big eye opener to me...it turns out many of these activities are still a lot of fun without b00zing, and it was just inaccurate expectations and a personal deficiency that made me think otherwise! And like you said, on the cost side of the equation, waking up and feeling good and not having 2-3 days of poor mood and energy is a substantial benefit.

Hristo Botev
Posts: 1743
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:42 am

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by Hristo Botev »

Timely for me that @Smashter just revived this thread; DW and I stopped drinking a couple of weeks ago and I doubt we'll go back save for the occasional half-hearted drink socially when appropriate (e.g., a wedding toast, visiting a family member with a $$$$ bourbon collection who wants to offer me a tasting flight comparing Pappy at different ages, etc.).

We'd been drinking at least one drink pretty much every day for a few years: the after-work cocktail was an almost every evening occurrence during which DW and I would sit in our living room and discuss our day. And then that martini would often get topped off or there would be an after-dinner beer or a glass of wine (or 2 or 3). I believe Huberman (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkS1pkKpILY) would call us heavy drinkers and/or chronic drinkers.

We quit drinking earlier this year just for Lent, and DW and I were talking this morning about how different that experience of quitting was from this current one. With Lent, it really was and felt like a sacrifice, which is as intended of course from a religious perspective, and it was quite difficult to make it through the 40+ days. But this time it's been a cakewalk, because there has just been a complete mind reset wrt alcohol for both of us.

It is reminiscent for me of when I quit smoking (cigarettes that is, I still enjoy a tobacco pipe on occasion). I smoked from probably 15 until 31, and for much of that time I was smoking at least half a pack a day. I'd thought about and tried to quit many times and it seemed like an insurmountable thing to do; but then DW got pregnant with our first and it was clear that me being a smoker with a pregnant wife wasn't going to work, and quitting was the easiest thing ever and happened over night with hardly a second thought.

It's been the same with alcohol. DW and I came to the idea to stop drinking separately and independently, interestingly enough. For me, what prompted the idea was, and apologies for the TMI, I was starting to have some ED issues, and so I started looking at ways to deal with that issue that didn't involve pharmaceuticals. And what came up over and over again as a "solution," in addition to the usual culprits of more exercise and better diet, was abstaining from alcohol. That sent me down a rabbit hole during which I watched and/or listened to tens if not over a hundred videos/podcasts about alcohol (the Huberman one was especially good and eye opening), and on a recent road trip for work I listened to an audiobook of Alcohol Explained (https://www.amazon.com/Alcohol-Explaine ... 1516997190), and all of that coupled with my own increased self awareness has just completely changed my mindset about alcohol; I see it as a poison now and am frankly a little pissed that I deceived myself about alcohol for so long.

Anyway, having been a heavy drinker for a number of years it feels like I've gained some new superpower by having stopped drinking, even after only a couple weeks: MUCH better sleep; no brain fog; clearer skin; I'm not missing any morning workouts; I've already dropped 5 pounds; higher energy levels; increased clarity of mind; improved memory; less stress; better judgment; less unnecessary eating; better emotional balance and less irritability; better sex.

Also, as this is ERE, the money savings are quite nice.

[edited to remove the paragraph about quitting not being hard; see below]
Last edited by Hristo Botev on Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:02 am, edited 3 times in total.

Smashter
Posts: 545
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:05 am
Location: Midwest USA

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by Smashter »

Hristo Botev wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:27 am
then DW got pregnant with our first and it was clear that me being a smoker with a pregnant wife wasn't going to work, and quitting was the easiest thing ever and happened over night with hardly a second thought.

{...}

Quitting really isn't hard (assuming you aren't going to have extreme chemical withdrawal)
Whoa, if you could bottle up and sell that willpower you'd be a very wealthy man :)

That's such awesome progress, great work. I'm happy you're seeing all those benefits. I've noticed much of the same things.

It's cool how your mindset shift made such a big difference. That resonates with my experience. Things got so much easier once I started identifying as a health focused person who gained more power by not drinking.

Hristo Botev
Posts: 1743
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:42 am

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by Hristo Botev »

Smashter wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:52 am
Whoa, if you could bottle up and sell that willpower you'd be a very wealthy man :)

That's such awesome progress, great work. I'm happy you're seeing all those benefits. I've noticed much of the same things.

It's cool how your mindset shift made such a big difference. That resonates with my experience. Things got so much easier once I started identifying as a health focused person who gained more power by not drinking.
Ha! You quoted me right as I was deleting the paragraph from my post where I'd said that "quitting really isn't hard . . . ," as that's not really a fair thing for me to say given that I'm only 2 weeks in. Also, regarding quitting, it's not really fair for me to say that it isn't hard when I have tried and thought about quitting hundreds of times before and haven't (it would be embarrassing to go through my various journal entries over the years and count up the number of times I've written out lists that say things like "workout 3x/week; no snacking; quit drinking [or social drinking only]."

That said, having watched tons of interviews on YouTube of celebrities/personalities who quit drinking, that is something that gets said over and over again: that quitting really isn't that hard, but that "they" (presumably the alcohol industry) goes out of its way to make it seem like it is a really hard thing to do, and also to encourage the "drink responsibly" way of thinking.

ducknald_don
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:31 pm
Location: Oxford, UK

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by ducknald_don »

Having a baby is probably a good time to quit, just like changing jobs or moving house. You are going to end up leaving a load of old habits and setting new ones. Might as well make those new habits healthy ones.

Hristo Botev
Posts: 1743
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:42 am

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by Hristo Botev »

One month without alcohol. Should have done this a long time ago. Everything is better. It's very different than when we've quit for things like Lent in the past, when we knew it was temporary and looked forward to the end of the temporary halt. The idea of drinking is starting to feel foreign to me.

Smashter
Posts: 545
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:05 am
Location: Midwest USA

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by Smashter »

That's great to hear @Hristo. Maybe this is wishful thinking, but I bet it's making quite an impression on your kids. When I was their age I hope I would have been impressed if my dad gave up drinking. I know I would have been in utter disbelief if my mom had quit.

I think this is true because my dad quit a couple years ago and I was indeed impressed. Meanwhile I recently got a bunch of wine charged to my credit card from a winery my mom belongs to. I guess because I paid for a meal there once, my mom’s credit card expired, and they kept mine on file?? Point is, she be drankin’

Anyway, re: this:
Hristo Botev wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:58 am
"they" (presumably the alcohol industry) goes out of its way to make it seem like it is a really hard thing to do, and also to encourage the "drink responsibly" way of thinking.
The quitting piece of this is interesting and something I don't know much about. If you come across any insightful content along these lines I'd love to check it out.

The “drink responsibly” messaging bothers me. The alcohol industry makes most of its money off problem drinkers. The top 10% of drinkers consume over half the alcohol sold in America. They drink 74 drinks per week! I don’t believe it for a second that the industry wants anyone to drink in moderation.

ertyu
Posts: 2921
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by ertyu »

The "drink responsibly" thing is one of the main lies alcoholics tell themselves. It's what they want to hear. While alcohol is, like any other addiction, wreaking havoc over they lives, they, like all other addicted beings, don't really want to quit: it's a source of pleasure. "Maybe I can still enjoy a drink or two, and it doesn't have to get 'that bad'" is one rationalization, but guess what, "just this once" keeps you using. "Just this muffin and im stopping tomorrow" is a classic of mine. But I'm not stopping tomorrow because having done it today reinforces the habit circuits, and tomorrow i'd want another "just this once."

"Drink responsibly" is also a lie functional alcoholics keep telling themselves to stay in denial. I still function in life, it's fine, I can drink - I'm drinking "responsibly", look, I'm fulfilling my responsibilities! Of course the industry wants you to keep telling yourself that and doesn't want people to drink in moderation. As with credit cards where the most money is made on the people who are least able to stay afloat: the poor.

J_
Posts: 892
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:12 pm
Location: Netherlands/Austria

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by J_ »

I stopped drinking alcohol since about five years now. Before I drank sporadicly. Since I have as leading motto “ good health” goes beyond everything else it was not that difficult to stop. No hangovers, no extra calories, no headache, a fitter body are the rewards.
It helped a lot that DW has never touched alcohol at all. So at social gatherings it is tea, coffee or plain water and nothing else.

Salathor
Posts: 394
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:49 am
Location: California, USA

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by Salathor »

Hristo Botev wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 11:15 am
One month without alcohol. Should have done this a long time ago. Everything is better. It's very different than when we've quit for things like Lent in the past, when we knew it was temporary and looked forward to the end of the temporary halt. The idea of drinking is starting to feel foreign to me.
Congrats! I'm coming up on 11 months next week. I stopped back in early December when there was a push here to do it. I had tried moderating or giving up alcohol for a while before and it was always hard. My experience this time has been the same as yours--deciding to just stop entirely was quite easy, vs. deciding to just drink less.

I guess it's like smoking. I'm not a smoker, so being offered a cigarette is an easy 'no' for me. I'm not tempted at all. Now that "I'm not a drinker," it's much easier to just decide that I'd rather not drink.

MisterMediocre
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed May 17, 2023 1:38 am

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by MisterMediocre »


Smashter
Posts: 545
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:05 am
Location: Midwest USA

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by Smashter »

@MisterMediocre that Huberman vid has been mentioned in this thread and elsewhere on the forum, it definitely seems to resonate with people. I'm not a big fan of his. I get huckster vibes with all the supplements he sells, and I think he's too quick to pull dramatic conclusions from small, poorly run, unlikely to replicate scientific studies. But I'm grateful that he's helped a lot of people tune in to the dangers of drinking too much

chenda
Posts: 3305
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Nether Wallop

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by chenda »

I'm not going to drink for the rest of January and might quit permanently. I don't think I've done a week alcohol free since I was 16, but I'm more conscious of the long term health risks and hoping it will help my sleep and mental health.

AxelHeyst
Posts: 2172
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by AxelHeyst »

I didn't drink in 2023 except on my birthday (april) and while in Japan. Could have done without drinking in Japan, in retrospect, but I had the idea to just go with whatever cultural experiences presented themselves. I had two of those that I'm happy about, the rest were meh.

In 2024 my alcohol rules are:
.on my birthday,
.if I make it myself,
.for hedonic dinners, monthly, if I spin those up.

chenda
Posts: 3305
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Nether Wallop

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by chenda »

AxelHeyst wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2024 12:18 pm
I didn't drink in 2023 except on my birthday (april) and while in Japan.
Did you notice any benefits?

AxelHeyst
Posts: 2172
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Quitting Alcohol Pros and Cons

Post by AxelHeyst »

Oh yes, definitely. healthier, wealthier, and wiser, for all of the reasons. Not drinking, or drinking barely at all, is such an obvious 'lifehack'. I'd regularly done 1-6 dry months for the five previous years, so none of it was surprising. I did go to my first wedding while sober and proved that I can in fact dance my face off and have a great time, even in a big crowd where I only know 4-5 other people. I no longer buy the social lubricant excuse from myself... or rather, I take my old reliance on alcohol to be 'better' in social circumstances as a challenge to increase my skill at being good and able to enjoy social situations sober. Which, so far so good.

Post Reply