What I Spend

Where are you and where are you going?
Scott 2
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Re: What I Spend

Post by Scott 2 »

Further reflection on the gym problem:

1. I decided against the upper tier, resort style gym. Paying twice as much, to drive twice as far - that's a lingering thread of my career driven, freedom from lifestyle. Similar to buying $100+ bottles of scotch, I was paying any amount to make life better. I needed escape. My fond memories come from time spent with my wife, not the gym's amenities. Especially with working at home, it was being together - fully disconnected - that made the experience special.

2. Looking more closely at benefits offered through my insurance - Gym Pass is only one option. There's a more deeply integrated fitness program, with tiers ranging from $20 to $100 per month. Included is a rewards program, that yields about $250 in benefits if maxed out. The $40 tier gives access to many more gyms than a comparable gym pass plan, including local park districts. That adds my Mom's current gym. She goes multiple times a week - so there's a family time multiplier.

3. This lets me solve the biggest gym cost, which is driving. I can stack gym visits with other priorities. Like today - my wife is going to the dentist. I'm coming with to hit the gym next door. I join her on an errand I'd otherwise opt out of, gaining to the time together. I also gain access to a couple gyms that are more pleasant biking, in a more affluent area, than my gym pass options. The closest one is next to a Goodwill and my grocery store, offering other synergies. I have incentive to learn my bike as a vehicle.

So, given all that, I signed up for the $40 tier and setup rewards via my insurance. I'll keep the membership year round. My net cost should be close to $20 per month. At that price, there's no incentive to be clever and juggle when or where I have access. I can simply live life. This builds my freedom to.


I do appreciate the feedback on and challenges to my strategy. Not sure I would have gotten here otherwise.

Scott 2
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Re: What I Spend

Post by Scott 2 »

Gym membership through my insurance is fantastic. I have access to 7 gyms within a 15 minute drive of my house. I am feeling out where I like best. It's so fun to try all the places, without the hassle of any commitments or hard sell. One gym did require a $50 deposit - for 24/7 key card access. Otherwise, it's all been included. A local park district even gave me a free hoodie for starting membership.


I am working on the bike as a vehicle, while waiting for my lock. Today I did a test ride to one of my 3 target areas... It wasn't great.

Getting to the area requires crossing a mile long bridge. The pedestrian walkway is a sidewalk, with a tall wire fence on the edge. So you can see the 50ft+ drop and catch the wind gusts. Since the bridge is the only way, the road is busy, including semis. The traffic is noisy and stinks. On the way there, I got nervous enough that I walked most of the bridge. On the way home, I glued my eyes to the sidewalk and rode, but only because I wanted to finish the bridge as quickly as possible. I didn't enjoy it.

The area is hilly enough, that there are stairs built into the sidewalks! WTF. How did I never notice that? I avoided them by riding through the residential streets, but steep elevation changes required braking far more than I'd like. In the end, I averaged about 6.5mph, over a 14 mile round trip. Practice would bring the speed up, but I'm definitely going to try some other destinations. Even if I improve my speed by 50%, I am looking at 45 minutes each way. Coupled with the bridge and hills, that feels excessive.


The other part of today's test was clothes for cooler riding. My fleece pull over passed. The fleece gloves did not. Too slippery. I fell back to a pair of fingerless biking gloves. Those were enough for today, but probably won't handle temps in the 30's and 40's. I've found ignoring cold fingers leads to painfully chapped skin, so I'll need to order something. I'm running a similar test with my athletic shorts. However, "just be cold" tends to be a viable option for my legs. So I may be able to keep those going into winter. All my long pants are too baggy for bike riding.

basuragomi
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Re: What I Spend

Post by basuragomi »

My guideline for winter biking is:
0 to 10C = insulated gloves, insulated hiking boots, jacket shell
-10C to 0C = ski mitts over insulated gloves, downhill helmet, insulated hiking boots, jacket shell
-20C to -10C = ski mitts over insulated gloves, downhill helmet, ski goggles, insulated hiking boots, jacket shell, sweater
<-20C = consider staying home

The bike couriers here all use bar mitts in the winter which probably work better, but normal mitts are more versatile for general use.

theanimal
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Re: What I Spend

Post by theanimal »

The bulk of my biking is in the winter in conditions from +10F to -30 F in an arid environment. If your hands get cold really easily, I would recommend the bike poagies, as @basuragomi alluded to. I don't know where you are, but I am guessing your winters are a lot milder. In that case, try to get the lightest material possible as it is really easy to overheat, especially if you have a lot of hill climbs involved. You can always wear gloves underneath. Mine have a fleece insert but I don't use them, typically liner gloves or bare handed work ok and when its really cold I toss on a pair of ski gloves. There are other options if you don't want to go the poagie route. You just need a material that blocks the wind. I have used a cheaper version of this style before, that generally worked well.

I do the same as you for upper half, fleece over t shirt and thin insulated jacket over that if its cold. Rain jacket if its windy.

Legs I typically wear long underwear with rain pants. Rain pants are my go to pants for all winter activities, biking, cross country skiing, hiking etc. It may be too warm where you are though for this to work without ending up with very sweaty legs.

zbigi
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Re: What I Spend

Post by zbigi »

Scott 2 wrote:
Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:07 pm
In the end, I averaged about 6.5mph, over a 14 mile round trip.
That mirrors my experience. I'm riding in a hilly and fairly dense urban area that has little to no bike lanes, and I'm choosing to ride on sidewalks quite often for safety. All the little, frequent stops and slowdows (e.g. not being an asshole and not passing people on the sidewalk at high speeds) that occur during such riding add up to not very high average mph.
I've found ignoring cold fingers leads to painfully chapped skin, so I'll need to order something.
Also, ignoring cold fingers can lead to pain in finger joints later. It's best to preemptively protect the joints, as chronic rheumatism in late age can be really painful and isn't really curable. The joints in legs are also exposed, but since you're constantly moving your legs, the warmth from the muscles should keep the leg joints warm(ish) as well. My experience is that, so far, I've only had intermittent pain in my fingers after riding on cold days without gloves on.

macg
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Location: USA-FL

Re: What I Spend

Post by macg »

Scott 2 wrote:
Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:07 pm
The area is hilly enough, that there are stairs built into the sidewalks! WTF. How did I never notice that? I avoided them by riding through the residential streets,
I am a bit confused... If you're riding your bicycle, you should be on the streets anyway, not riding on the sidewalks? Did I misunderstand something?

Long bridges with semis rolling past are tough, I agree. There are some where I also just end up walking the bike across on the sidewalk, if there even is one.

Scott 2
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Re: What I Spend

Post by Scott 2 »

I appreciate the advice on cold weather gear. The bike poagies look great, though maybe overkill for my needs.

I'm unsure where my temperature floor is. Currently, I feel hesitant to ride when there's snow or ice on the ground. The price for crashing is high enough, that it makes me think twice. That could preclude any rides below freezing.
macg wrote:
Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:20 am
If you're riding your bicycle, you should be on the streets anyway, not riding on the sidewalks?
The bridge empties out onto a road with tall curbs and narrow lanes. Riding in the street, there's not a good escape path. With that being the main road through town, I wasn't confident sharing the lane with traffic. Maybe the stairs are also intended to keep bikes off the sidewalks.

Going a couple streets over is the clear solution. I'm fine riding on those residential roads. This is suburbia, after all.

macg
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Re: What I Spend

Post by macg »

Scott 2 wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:41 pm
The bridge empties out onto a road with tall curbs and narrow lanes. Riding in the street, there's not a good escape path. With that being the main road through town, I wasn't confident sharing the lane with traffic. Maybe the stairs are also intended to keep bikes off the sidewalks.
Ahh, that makes sense. I didn't understand that the stairs in the sidewalk were in the sidewalk for the bridge. I have also run across bridges that just had no design for bicycles, and therefore had to use the sidewalk. If no one was on the sidewalk, I might ride it, especially the longer bridges, but normally I would walk it. I'm firmly in the camp of avoiding sidewalks when on bicycles... So far (knock on wood) I haven't had any issues with crashes or (extreme) road rage (from cars).

Back when I was in South FL, there was a terrible bridge to ride bicycles over where I lived. Sometimes I would do it, but the majority of the time I would just go to the better bridge, even though it was a longer route.

Random thought - I'm not sure if the area you are in is a long-term thing for you, but it might be worth reaching out to the town, or any bicycle organizations around. Perhaps the bridge in question is due for repairs or work in the near future, and you (or the organization) could put in a request for bicycle access.

Scott 2
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Re: What I Spend

Post by Scott 2 »

The fenced sidewalk is a pretty standard bridge solution in my area. There's another bridge a few miles away, going over the same stuff. Same answer. The bridge is so long, I'm sure even this solution was stupid expensive to build.

The other directions have newer construction and better riding conditions. Driving distance to those areas is a little longer, but in practice, I think the biking experience will be faster/better. I'm intending on a timed ride to one of them tomorrow.

If I felt confident locking up my nice mountain bike, the bridge ride would feel much better. I have more control, which would give much better confidence on the steep hills. But, it makes too tempting of a target. Something comparable retails for $1000, and I'd be upset to lose it.

Scott 2
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Re: What I Spend

Post by Scott 2 »

Got a couple more bike to gym trials under my belt:

1. Closest park district - a little over 5 miles. 35 minute ride. Bike paths or trails the entire way. Bike rack in a good location. The weight room isn't great, but this is definitely my easiest ride.

2. Further chain gym - a little over 7 miles. 50 minute ride. Hilly. Mostly bike path or bike lane. Decent, highly visible bike rack. Good weight room and lifting culture. Added bonus - goes right past the library. This ride I also lifted, lower body. It felt like a lot. I definitely traded on quality of the lifting session.

Given that ride 2 is a mile further than going to the gym over the long bridge, I may attempt the bridge again. I am finding that "bike as vehicle" takes some joy out of the ride. I get impatient to arrive at my destination.


I gave fleece gloves another try, with temps in the low 50's. With road conditions I'm more confident in, they were fine. Which is great, because all the bike glove options overwhelmed me, and I gave up on shopping. Eventually I'd like a nice pair, buy maybe that waits until next spring. Do I spend $20? $80? Padding? Insulation? Vents? Color? Finger armor??? Too many options.

I ordered a fixed stem to replaced the wobbly adjustable stem on my hybrid. I think the wobble poses a long term safety risk, so better to do away with an unneeded feature. I'm also eying replacement of the suspension seat post, seat, rear derailleur and cabling. It's tough to decide when I'm putting too much into the bike. The $30 parts can quickly accumulate beyond a replacement cost.


In my attempt to re-enter the world, I applied to be an election judge. Dunno if I'll be selected, but it could be an interesting experience.

zbigi
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Re: What I Spend

Post by zbigi »

Scott 2 wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:32 pm

Given that ride 2 is a mile further than going to the gym over the long bridge, I may attempt the bridge again. I am finding that "bike as vehicle" takes some joy out of the ride. I get impatient to arrive at my destination.
Hah, I've found myself thinking something along those lines multiple times when attempting various life/ERE hacks. The truth is that "normies" choose the standard/modern way of living for a reason - it's unbeatable in terms of convenience, pain and effort avoidance, as well as maximizing pleasure. Any deviation from that path is going to "suck" to someone for whom this is not their normal. Hopefully, over time, one can get used to the suckiness and just see it as the their new normal. In exchange, you get more freedom and more resilience. However, for someone who is already "rich" from their successful career in IT, and can always return to it if needed, this tradeoff feels a bit contrived (as someone mentioned, a lot of people on this forum, probably including me as well, are just doing ERE cosplaying).

mathiverse
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Re: What I Spend

Post by mathiverse »

Scott 2 wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:32 pm
Given that ride 2 is a mile further than going to the gym over the long bridge, I may attempt the bridge again. I am finding that "bike as vehicle" takes some joy out of the ride. I get impatient to arrive at my destination.
By changing your commuting strategy, you can reduce unpleasantness and increase the joy you get.

Can you explain more about the moments you get impatient to arrive at your destination? Are you in even the slightest bit of a time crunch? Why are you not enjoying the ride? I know you've talked a few times about how you enjoy movement, what is the reason that having a destination at the end of a ride reduces that enjoyment? Is it that you often want to go to the gym when you don't feel much like riding your bike? Maybe understanding that impatience can give you ideas on how to change the experience so you don't feel it.

Although, ultimately I'm not sure the impatience is completely avoidable. I've had countless drives where I was impatient to reach my destination as well. Maybe zooming out a bit, the another solution is to change where you're going to be a closer destination rather than changing how you get there.

Another thing is that you are in the adaptation period right now. You can't go as fast as you'd like and you aren't used to the route, so it takes more effort and time than it will in a few weeks if you've regularly been biking the route.

These days, I often prefer taking an hour long walk to get somewhere over driving the fifteen to twenty minutes. I use my human powered commuting time to think and explore mentally and physically depending on my mood. I also like the joy of movement and all that too. Commuting by human power means I have to plan less since I get more physical activity in my day to day life.

To some extent, normies use the more convenient methods of transportation because they don't have the option to use other forms of transportation. Often due to a lack of time or a lack of physical ability (due to bad lifestyle design). I've had people tell me they could never walk 20 minutes for an errand. Ultimately, if you lack either the time or physical ability, then it seems impossible and/or sucky to bike seven miles. If you have both, then the whole trip isn't necessarily sucky at all depending on your situation. Former salarypeople may have to build up their physical ability after leaving their careers, but ultimately that's not because it's sucky to walk or bike, but because there was a physical cost to the salaried career that has to be paid later on as one regains their physical ability.

Scott 2
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Re: What I Spend

Post by Scott 2 »

zbigi wrote:
Sun Oct 16, 2022 5:13 am
However, for someone who is already "rich" from their successful career in IT, and can always return to it if needed, this tradeoff feels a bit contrived
Inflation and poor market returns drove my recent frugal behaviors. The last year has caused a lot of financial angst. Using the same SWR, our purchasing power is down by ~1/3. We're not poor, but we used to be 50% wealthier. Tech salaries hold more appeal.

However, having tasted freedom, the trade off feels much less contrived. I don't want to sit on Zoom meetings for 20+ hours a week, beyond whatever real work I do. The opportunity cost is too high. I already burned my 20's and 30's on other people's problems. In comparison, even impatiently biking is bliss.

I'm in agreement with the ERE cosplaying. That's part of why I attempt to be transparent on our spending. IMO there's a select few living on one "Jacob", whatever the JAFI is these days. Ignoring the braces, our budget for next year is $45k. That's with a paid off home and car. We spend less than anyone I know IRL. Financially, people hit their stride in middle age. We're being left behind.
mathiverse wrote:
Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:40 am
Can you explain more about the moments you get impatient to arrive at your destination?
I am a min maxer by nature. I escalate until something breaks. Often that's me.

With bike as vehicle, there's a goal - my destination. The ride is between me and my goal. There's an optimal path. Over repeated attempts, there's a baseline. My closest gym ride was 32 minutes earlier this week. Today I got there in 30:15. On the way home, I made it 29:14.

Escalating is less fun than riding around until I feel tired. It's also a core character trait (flaw?), that I've spent a lot of energy wrestling with. Every part of me wants to improve the baseline, even if the strategy takes from overall quality of life.

I think what's different with a car, is I have minimal control. There's a speed limit, traffic lights, etc. With the bike, I can always pedal harder. And I know my inexperience means there's a runway for adaptation. Walking doesn't pull that same response out of me. Maybe because it's not physically practical for me to run places

I'd happily walk a mile or two for my various needs. Unfortunately, my current home has a terrible walk score. Hidden in that low walk score, is the constrained number of paths to commerce. Due to various man made and natural barriers, there's much less variety in a bike as vehicle ride. When my central goal is "bike as play", I take the most fun paths, going nowhere. That's hard to beat.

ertyu
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Re: What I Spend

Post by ertyu »

Scott 2 wrote:
Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:49 pm
having tasted freedom, the trade off feels much less contrived. I don't want to sit on Zoom meetings for 20+ hours a week, beyond whatever real work I do. The opportunity cost is too high. I already burned my 20's and 30's on other people's problems. In comparison, even impatiently biking is bliss.
No tech salary here but i feel this. I was out of work from February 2020 till October '21, and I was fine going back to work in the beginning but I'm dragging my feet now. Staying is difficult, even with the current inflation and stock market situation. But I stay; at €220k in the bank, my calculus is different compared to someone with three or four times that.

zbigi
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Re: What I Spend

Post by zbigi »

Scott 2 wrote:
Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:49 pm

Financially, people hit their stride in middle age. We're being left behind.
That's an interesting theme that keeps repeating in your journal. Do you worry that people who continue working will eventually be able to afford better lifestyle than you will have? Or is it just pure competitiveness?
I for one just don't see what more money could buy for me (apart from more security of course), so going ERE is much easier. Everything that is potentially nice and would cost a lot of money also happens to have many drawbacks, so it's not even clear that having access to it is a net win. E.g. regularly eating out - the food around here is mediocre for the most part, plus it's not very healthy and it's hard to control portions; buying a property in Canary Islands and wintering there to avoid grim weather and smog - I would probably get lonely there; buying a house outside city to grow my own food and avoid neighbor noise - the smog in the neighboring villages is often dire, there are less good walking paths, I would have to drive a lot to get to places and people, the Internet can be bad, and there still can be noise. I just can't see ways in which money could improve my life further - the whole consumerism dream is basically a mirage for me.

Scott 2
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Re: What I Spend

Post by Scott 2 »

zbigi wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:46 am
That's an interesting theme that keeps repeating in your journal. Do you worry that people who continue working will eventually be able to afford better lifestyle than you will have? Or is it just pure competitiveness?
While working, I did feel competitive around net worth. I had ego tied into it. As I've become a more rounded person, that sentiment has faded.

However - I am aware of the path not taken. It's been about 2 years since my initial leave of absence. That's enough time for disparate life paths to become obvious. More so with the dramatic erosion of investment wealth this year.

FIRE made me much more conscious of resource scarcity. With a firm and declining budget, I've had to re-evaluate many things I used to take for granted. Insurance. Healthcare. Professional services. Unskilled help. Number of pets. We cut a lot of it, especially as prices changed.

The net - our lives look much different than our former peers. Some of those indulgences, I miss. There's some fear. What happens as the population grows and increases competition for resources? What do we sacrifice next? Market returns offer less control than a regular paycheck.

Money buys security and time. Barring catastrophe, it smooths bumps in the world. I tried eat out last week. Stopped by the burrito place. The line was 20 people deep. Zero chance I'm waiting that long. I left, intending to settle for a donut. They had closed early. I got nothing.

When I was working - I paid $20 to have the same burrito delivered. Sometimes twice in a single week. The line was never a consideration. The price was irrelevant. Maybe it would be $30 now? I don't know. I haven't had a food delivery in over two years.


If our wealth magically doubled, I could put it to work. Re-establish the safety margin for private long term care. Resume buying any food from any source. Re-hire the house keeper. Re-join the luxury gym. Install a hot tub and/or sauna. Stop fighting with the internet and cell phone vendors over price. Bring in professionals to service our home and vehicles. Did you know someone will pick up your bike, clean it, tune it, and drop it back off? I'd enjoy that. My wife would enjoy a weekly massage. There's no end to the ideas.


Any one of the ideas above, I could afford to implement. But I can't have them all. That's the price of regaining control over my time.

theanimal
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Re: What I Spend

Post by theanimal »

Scott 2 wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:50 pm
Money buys security and time. Barring catastrophe, it smooths bumps in the world. I tried eat out last week. Stopped by the burrito place. The line was 20 people deep. Zero chance I'm waiting that long. I left, intending to settle for a donut. They had closed early. I got nothing.
You are limiting yourself by seeing money as the only option to what you want. See how with a few changes your scenario reads differently.

"Skills buy security and time. Barring catastrophe, it smooths bumps in the world. I thought about eating out last week. Maybe stop by the burrito place. Then I realized the line would be 20 people deep, with mediocre ingredients. Zero chance I'm waiting that long. I stayed home, made a tortilla from my bulk supply of flour, with veggies from my garden and beans that I had cooked that morning."

You have to make the alternative better than what you were pursuing or find a way to enjoy it more, otherwise it is going to feel like a sacrifice. The bar is low for beating restaurant food. With a few attempts and some decent ingredients, it is not hard to beat the vast majority of what is available. Also, you save a whole lot more time in not needing to work to be able to afford $20-30 doordash orders versus the half hour or so those people "save" in travel and waiting with each order.

7Wannabe5
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Re: What I Spend

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

My wife would enjoy a weekly massage.
What's stopping you? ;)

Scott 2
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Re: What I Spend

Post by Scott 2 »

Some of my posts read like I am down on early retirement. I'm not. This is an honest discussion of the trade offs. I am learning and sharing.

Activity in the online retirement spaces seems to have fallen off. I'm sure others are having similar experiences.
theanimal wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:10 pm
You have to make the alternative better than what you were pursuing or find a way to enjoy it more, otherwise it is going to feel like a sacrifice.
This year, we spent $6 on eating out. I got 2 or 3 donuts in June. We chose other priorities, partially because the option to grab carryout has collapsed. The scenario I described above has happened multiple times. What used to be easy is now a hassle. Good service moved upmarket, via the food delivery apps.

That's a real change in the value society can provide. Increased competition for scarcer goods. We've made the best of it, but there's a tangible loss. We now provide the labor and had to develop the skills. Even when I don't mind, using the energy carries an opportunity cost.

Up until this year, I didn't understand that aspect of early retirement. As the population grows, buying services becomes harder. Holding your wealth steady means a gradual decline in standard of living. More so given the loss of physical capacity that comes with age.

So upon retiring, we enter into a race. We have to outpace both aging and population growth. This is the new job - developing skills and building resources to beat the decline. This year has been an effective one for us. Skill development has offered richer lives, despite having much less wealth.

But, it is a sacrifice. Given the option, I'd rather not scrub my bathroom. Money can solve that. We could also downsize or even rip out a bathroom. However, I think those would be other forms of sacrifice.

An obvious solution is to "one more year," until there's excess net worth. Then retire with a conservative, variable withdrawal rate. Plan for decline, essentially. We had some safety margin, and in a sense did so. But in practice, taking more when you have less, doesn't feel very smart.
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:00 am


What's stopping you? ;)
I need to grow the wheat, to harvest the grain, to grind the flour, to make the tortillas, to cook my tacos :D.

The honest truth - I'm a poor substitute for a massage therapist. When applied beyond a "hey this feels good and is relaxing", it is highly skilled labor. A year or two of training. Thousands of hours with hands on experience. Done incorrectly, it makes things worse.

That's frequently the case with skilled labor. I can move that line over time, but I'm probably never doing my cat's dental work. Money helps.

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Ego
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Re: What I Spend

Post by Ego »

Scott 2 wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:19 pm
But, it is a sacrifice. Given the option, I'd rather not scrub my bathroom. Money can solve that. We could also downsize or even rip out a bathroom. However, I think those would be other forms of sacrifice.
It is definitely a sacrifice. You are giving up something to get something else.

I've noticed that sacrificing is most painful when the thing I am giving up is in the forefront of my mind and the thing I am getting is not. Mrs. Ego will often say something like, "Well, I would have been at work for three hours if we were paying someone to scrub the bathtub..." She changes her mindset on what we are giving and what we are getting. It works for me.

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