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@ShriekingFeralHatred,

Your user name begins to make more sense. It's clear from this and your other posts that you despise your life, your chosen career and humanity in general. I'm not sure how we could all separate into Us and Them by urban vs rural, white vs color, rich vs working class; there's a huge amount of crossover. Regardless, this wouldn't solve the issue of your hatred for your life.

If you've learned nothing else from Jacob's book and this forum, it should be that you aren't a victim. If you don't like the direction things are going, you can change them. Look at the people here who are turning their lives into a realization of their dreams regardless of external factors. It doesn't happen by finding others to blame and stoking resentment against them, and it doesn't happen as a result of any election outcome.

ShriekingFeralHatred wrote:The rest of my opinion is formed from the combined observation of my whole adult life, from living in majority white areas to 99%+ nonwhite areas.

After living among many types of people in many demographic proportions over a long period of time, I have concluded that the commonly accepted premise of "tolerance" and "everyone getting along" is exactly wrong, and that what we need most is to separate into Us and Them and go our separate ways.

If you're just finishing med school, you must be what ... 30 tops? As someone who's "whole adult life" is 3x longer than yours, my advice is to keep an open mind and get out into the real world before writing off entire segments of the population. You're awfully young to have your mind made up about everything.

blah

ShriekingFeralHatred wrote:After living among many types of people in many demographic proportions over a long period of time, I have concluded that the commonly accepted premise of "tolerance" and "everyone getting along" is exactly wrong, and that what we need most is to separate into Us and Them and go our separate ways.

I would say that history isn't on your side. Humans have historically advanced from the fusion of different cultures, races, and ideas. Sharing culture and connecting to something outside of ourselves is so ingrained that as a species we have gone out of our way to do it even to animals hence the domestication of once wild fauna into pets. To venture out, discover, swap our genes as far and as wide as possible is ingrained in our DNA. The founder of this forum, Jacob, is of a different culture but here we are swapping ideas which are rooted in personal history/culture/education with people we never met so I find your comment about separatism somewhat ironic.

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ShriekingFeralHatred wrote:He is not terribly different culturally. He is more similar to me on a genetic, cultural and class basis than a random Nigerian or something.

Similar but not the same yet neither of you chose to go separate ways but instead are exchanging ideas on his forums with one another and others in the ERE community - heck some of us could be Nigerian.

I'm not sure I'd call it multiculturalism is you only interact with cultures with whom you're already comfortable. I don't beat the push-yourself-to-the-point-of-being-uncomfortable drum like Ego does, but I agree with him that it's important.

And to Campitor's point, you have no idea who we all are. Some (many?) may come from cultures that you would avoid IRL, and yet here you are sharing ideas and learning from those same people. Think of what we'd be missing out on if the conversations were limited to like-minded cultures.

This isn't about being old or set in my ways or not agreeing with you (have you read my posts in the other Trump thread??). It's about not being prejudiced. Most of the problems in the US -- even if they are centered around a particular race or culture -- aren't the result of inherent issues within those races or cultures.

blah

to get back to that separatism point. abstractly, brute thinks that drawing a circle of governance and "this is all the same" around too large of a group of humans is the root cause of many problems. small, homogenous states are almost always easier to govern. every policy works in Denmark because it's a handful of happy, rich humans of the same ethnicity.

there's been a reference to a book on here a few times, how culturally, the US could split into a few different areas. PNW, commifornia, The Sprawl on the east coast, and so on.

unity is only good if it's beneficial.

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@ShriekingFeralHatred, do you really believe you can reduce complex systems to a binary model? What you are saying certainly doesn't match the realities I've encountered in the USA.

A really good article by an economist from Cal. It's long, but does a good job of identifying when and how many manufacturing jobs were eliminated, and why, on a macro level, this happened.

http://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/1/ ... loss-trump

It also briefly touches on some other themes we have talked about, such as the propensity to not move from a depressed economic area to a prospering one.

The second half of this new EconTalk podcast where they talk about the spread of heroin east of the Mississippi, what kind of problem opioid addiction is, and muse about "why don't people move out of economically depressed areas" is also relevant to this discussion:

http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2017/0 ... es_on.html

I am reading "Four Futures: Visions of the World After Capitalism" by Peter Frase, and the author mentions a study which showed that all the psychological problems associated with being unemployed almost magically disappeared when unemployed individuals crossed over into retirement age or status. IOW, just feeling justified in being able to say "I am retired." rather than "I am unemployed" greatly improves happiness and cures dysfuntional behavior. Since women are more accustomed to engaging in work through which they derive meaning without direct remuneration, they generally suffer less stigma from "unemployed status." This can be particularly seen in the different social status generally assigned to an unmarried welfare mother vs. a married woman with children whose husband is unemployed.

Also, I would note that there is likely to be an end to our ability to retreat to productive employment not likely to be better facilitated by robots in the near future. Agriculture and manufacturing were just the first to fall. There are expensive machines already designed that will be used to pick delicate fruit crops as soon as there are no longer inexpensive migrant workers available. All the tedious research currently done by junior lawyers will soon be automated, along with every other form of research and customer service at that level.

The funny thing is that if I am reading the author correctly (possible not), this forum might qualify as an example of what Marx really meant when he used the term "commune", IF it was the case that all the investments any of us held were in endeavors largely being carried out by robots or as passionate avocation of other humans. I am taking a class on how to build my own robots, because I realized that PVC are a more efficient convertor of solar energy than potatoes, and I would advise the rest of you to do the same

Not surprising about the psychological aspects for the typical unemployed. Most people can't find meaningful projects to busy themselves with, so they rely on others to do this for them.

Robots/AI will definitely threaten some white collar jobs in the future. Though, if given a chance, which we don't seem to giving it right now, the market and society will create new/different jobs for people. This has happened multiple times in history. I'm sure the hunters and gathers all hated the farmers, the individual weavers all hated the spinning jenny, the farmers/related workers (75% of US population) all hated the industrialization of their profession (less than 2% now), and horse trainers, shit shovelers, buggy manufacturers...all hated Mr. Ford and the automobile.

The only difference now or at any time in history is who has to change. The one slight difference now is that it is happening a little faster and the US is coming off one of the most perfect economic situations in the history of the world, which can't be duplicated again unless millions die.

The one slight difference now is that it is happening a little faster and the US is coming off one of the most perfect economic situations in the history of the world, which can't be duplicated again unless millions die.

That's two. If I may, I would like to add a third. Capitalism and corporatism has reached the edges of the globe. There is nowhere to "go west and live off the land". The economic engine of the world affects all.

A fourth if you include the central bankers insistence on an always inflationary policy.

Yes, two. Still plenty of places to "go west" to & no I don't believe central banks are a big enough difference to be included with the others.

Are people in the USA freaked out by Trump's actions? I am so glad to be far away from it.
I was initially a little blase about Trump's election and thinking it would just be business as usual. But he actually is carrying out the things he said he would and more. What makes me anxious as well is the speed with which he is doing it too. Seems so dictatorial and extremist. Its been less than a week and already: a ban on federal money going to international groups that perform or provide information on abortions: hiring 10,000 more Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents; blocking grants to sanctuary cities: and now he really is going to build a wall FFS. Also I have heard reports that there is a proposal to remove the visa esta waiver programme with 38 countries, including NZ and Aussie, and institute a mandatory interview for anyone entering the USA. FFS no one will want to go there, how weird. Some of the policies being swiftly rolled out seem hate, fear and intolerance based.

For some, Trumps actions are very worrying. For others, it's their dream come true. A third group has barely noticed and thinks it doesn't matter or won't affect them.