Vasectomy? Child-free life?

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DutchGirl
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by DutchGirl »

@bryan: the pullout method gives "only" a 50% pregnancy rate if you use it consistently for a year. That's a bit better than not pulling out at all, which gives roughly a 90% pregnancy rate for a heterosexual fertile couple. So I would strongly advise anyone to not rely on "pulling out" if you're not ready to have a child (or an abortion or a pregnancy followed by an adoption).

bryan
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by bryan »

@DutchGirl, how so? i.e. citation needed. Again, not asking for at-large statistics (that are helpful for a government, say) but for something closer to experimental results. Something that enumerates the failure modes of the method (i.e. you can't knock the method if the male starts ejaculating and then pulls out..)

Planned Parenthood gives a thumbs up to the Withdrawal Method (admittedly they strongly suggest combining it w/ condom to prevent STIs).

If I were female I would certainly not be a huge fan of the pull-out method (since the male is the one in control).

edit: see https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/defaul ... 07-410.pdf, however all the theoretical % of various methods (I mentioned 96% seems low) all seem to come from "Contraceptive Technology" HTNCSL, which I haven't found a link to..

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jennypenny
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by jennypenny »

@bryan -- It's hard to find reliable statistics on the withdrawal-only method because it tends to be combined with fertility-awareness methods (known as Natural Family Planning in the Catholic Church). The failure rate is said to be 2-5% when the two methods are combined. Off the record, I've heard that the rate varies with age and that 20-somethings tend to have higher failure rates (10-12%). The rate drops to almost zero by maternal age 40. The variability could be due to the increased fertility of 20-somethings or to method failure. Since it's primarily used/studied by Catholics who, in theory, wouldn't have strong objections to pregnancy, the incentive to follow the method rigorously is absent. I'd guess it's a combination of both. I haven't seen any studies of teen failure rates but I doubt the Church would study such things. I wouldn't recommend that kind of labor-intensive method to a teenager anyway.

I think the combined fertility awareness/withdrawal method can be very reliable, especially in committed relationships where the burden of following the method is shared between both partners. That said, I have a hard time imagining using only that method in any situation except for a long-term committed relationship. The disease risks are too great to forgo a barrier method of contraception. I also wouldn't rely solely on NFP if there were grave risks associated with pregnancy, either because of maternal health issues or known genetic problems related to fetal development.

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Jean
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Jean »

One begnin STD costs as much to heal in antibiotics as 1000 condoms do.
So outside of commited relationships, I would advocate for condom or abstinence, unless impregating anyone is very high in your priorities.

DutchGirl
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by DutchGirl »

Oh, it's 27%, so one in four women who get pregnant using this method (only) for one year, not one in two. Still, that's a TERRIBLE birth control method. If you use it for five years, you would have a 80% chance of a pregnancy during those five years. I guess only to be used for people who are only trying to have a few years between each pregnancy (and child), and not as a way to actually prevent a pregnancy. Source: https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn ... ulling-out .

bryan
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by bryan »

Thanks, that's the page I read where it sounds like PP gives it a thumbs up. Though, PP is quoting the 96% effectiveness which I have already questioned as being too low.

enigmaT120
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by enigmaT120 »

Jean wrote:One begnin STD costs as much to heal in antibiotics as 1000 condoms do.
So outside of commited relationships, I would advocate for condom or abstinence, unless impregating anyone is very high in your priorities.
That's if you only get ones that can be cured. So I agree, and that's why I am only interested in committed relationships since if I had to use a condom I wouldn't bother having sex with another person. I hate VD and I've never even had one.

slowtraveler
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by slowtraveler »

Interesting idea that it costs 1000 condoms equivalent to cure one std. It's actually infinite since condoms are free at local colleges and std testing clinics. 10-17 if you're not on this forum and pay a whole dollar for each one.

Chlamydia is $17, gonorrhea is $10 to cure, syphilis takes a penicillin shot, HPV tends to cure itself, well over 50% of people already have dormant HSV-1 and most don't know it and it'll likely never effect them. Chlamydia and gonorrhea have high transmission rates so these are the most common.

HIV can kill you. This one is worth being safe from and getting actually educated about as it will effect the rest of your life if you get it.
HIV has a ridiculously low transmission rate unless 1) the infected person has a high viral load and 2) large amount of bodily fluids containing the virus (blood, sperm, precum, vaginal fluid, or breast milk) from infected person gets in direct contact with blood on potential victim.

Condoms are a joke for protection from disease. I know someone who got HIV when his condom broke because of the 2 previous conditions. He thought the rubber protected him. Get tested instead and only play with someone you trust.

I know multiple people who had unprotected sex with someone with HIV when their viral load was low-nothing happened but better not to play with fire.

+1 to JennyPenny on fertility awareness. High success rate but depends on not playing when desire is highest. IUD, BC pills, vasectomy, and hopefully vasalgel soon all have high success rates (>99% without pulling out) and don't depend on this willpower.

If anybody knows of anything available now as effective as vasectomy without the irreversible risk, please let me know.

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Stahlmann
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Stahlmann »

There's always revasectomy and you could do that after having amassing some wealth and then have kids with some 30yo when you're 50yo. Sorry for treating life as RPG.

Btw, do they do sperm ejection from testicles for something like in vitro for males (even if it's put in women utherus then, not on lab glass)? Sorry, I haven't been attentive during biology classes in HS.

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Jean
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Jean »

slowtraveler wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:05 am
Chlamydia is $17, gonorrhea is $10 to cure, syphilis takes a penicillin shot, HPV tends to cure itself, well over 50% of people already have dormant HSV-1 and most don't know it and it'll likely never effect them. Chlamydia and gonorrhea have high transmission rates so these are the most common.
It probably doesn't includes the talk with the doctor and the lab work to determine what bacteries you're infected with, and which antibiotics still work against them.

Toska2
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Toska2 »

There is a couple theories on why Vasagel has stalled in clinical trials. None paint a good picture on where society is and where its going.

On a lighter note, condoms are less effective today.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news.c ... 0892%3famp

chenda
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by chenda »

slowtraveler wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:05 am
If anybody knows of anything available now as effective as vasectomy without the irreversible risk, please let me know.
Homosexuality.

chenda
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by chenda »

Toska2 wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 10:32 am
On a lighter note, condoms are less effective today.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news.c ... 0892%3famp
Karmic sauce. Its all enough to turn one to celibacy.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

“chenda” wrote: Homosexuality.
...or dating post-menopausal women.

That anecdote about Drake makes no sense. Why wouldn’t he just rinse the condom out in the sink? How could you not notice hot sauce in addition to ejaculate in a condom? How do you “pour” the contents of a floppy used condom into an awkwardly positioned not immediately “open” vessel?

Hristo Botev
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Hristo Botev »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 1:34 pm
...or dating post-menopausal women.
abstinence --> NFP --> marital relations after menopause

chenda
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by chenda »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 1:34 pm
How do you “pour” the contents of a floppy used condom into an awkwardly positioned not immediately “open” vessel?
And would it even work to kill the sperm? Or was he just trying to deter her?

Also some women report getting pregnant through anal sex.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

“chenda” wrote: Also some women report getting pregnant through anal sex
Women with Crohn’s disease sometimes develop a fistula connecting intestines to bladder or vagina (if this happens to me, I am going to be like please just take all my parts out and see me up like Barbie!!!)For healthy individuals, it could happen through osmosis.

white belt
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by white belt »

The Drake anecdote makes no sense for the following reasons:

1. Every celebrity makes romantic partners sign a NDA
2. I doubt a celebrity that is sufficiently paranoid about pregnancy is dumb enough to finish inside a woman even with a condom on. A rip in the condom with pregnancy is going to cost you a few million in child support among other things, so why not just pull out in combination with a condom?
3. The simpler solution to carrying around hot sauce is just flushing the condom down the toilet. Based on the amount of condoms that show up in our waterways, I suspect that is a common approach.


DGF and I are pretty sure we don't want kids but I haven't gotten a vasectomy yet. DGF has an IUD so I feel pretty good that our chances of getting pregnant are quite low. Even so, DGF still likes to do a pregnancy test once a month or so for peace of mind.

In my single days, I found avoiding pregnancy quite straightforward with the following framework:

1. Always wear a condom
2. Never finish inside a girl
3. Inquire about birth control use and avoid partners that do not use any birth control and/or have strong pro-life views
4. If you screw up or are uncertain, get Plan B

Violate the rules at your own risk. There have been times where I haven't worn a condom, but it's not something I'll ever do if a girl is not on birth control (obviously this increases risk of STI's as well). Likewise, there have been times when I have finished inside a girl, but always when I'm wearing a condom.

It's not a foolproof framework because it requires trust in another human, however I found it to be a "good enough" solution. Just abiding by 1 and 2 will mitigate most of the risk of pregnancy. If you're too paranoid for that then I recommend abstinence. Humans gonna human but if you're on these forums then I assume you are approaching life with some attempt at thoughtfulness.

chenda
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by chenda »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 4:39 pm
I am going to be like please just take all my parts out and see me up like Barbie!!!).
Lol!

I've never known a guy to withdrawal whilst wrapped up, though it's a good idea if you've not got a second line of defence.

I've also noticed that the younger generation seem less concerned about STIs. Growing up in the 90s everyone was terrified of HIV which was then a death sentence.

white belt
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by white belt »

I suspect that widespread internet pornography may have changed ejaculation preferences for an entire generation of men, although I have no evidence other than anecdotal.

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