Vasectomy? Child-free life?

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enigmaT120
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by enigmaT120 »

Is that a full movie? It was funny, the part I saw. I'll have to look for it.

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C40
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by C40 »

It is from a full movie, but that's just a small clip. The movie is "Idiocracy". It's good and you should watch it. It's quite poorly made, but it's funny and the point of the movie is good.

Over the last few years it has become more and more culturally relevant and more frequently referenced

BRUTE
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by BRUTE »

watching Idiocracy is a civic duty. this is where brute first learned about electrolytes!

SimpleLife
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by SimpleLife »

So it sounds like condoms are a better bet since you still need to wear one anyway. Even in a relationship you never know. Ask the lady who's cheating husband gave her HIV/AIDS...

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C40
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by C40 »

See this: https://www.optionsforsexualhealth.org/ ... ectiveness

In real life (planned/attempted) use, condoms are much less effective than vasectomies, tube-tying, or IUDs.

James_0011
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by James_0011 »

I don't think vasectomies are healthy, otherwise I would say go for it. Kids can really mess things up.

BRUTE
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by BRUTE »

what does James_0011 find unhealthy about them?

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Jean
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Jean »

Do you realize, that all the ressources that your probably future-minded chlidren would have blocked are going to be available for present minded children, resulting in a greater mid term destruction of our environment?

Riggerjack
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Riggerjack »

Do you realize, that all the ressources that your probably future-minded chlidren would have blocked are going to be available for present minded children, resulting in a greater mid term destruction of our environment?
I understand. The cognitive dissonance caused by both making more humans and despising the effect humans have on the planet is going to result in some tortured logic and self delusion. I can keep quiet about that. You do your thing, I'll do mine.

But when you encourage others to make more humans "to save the earth", I have to call you on that BS.

While it is theoretically possible to have a multi-generational extremely environmentally conscious family, they are unicorns. They appear in books and videos, but are never spotted in the wild.

Usually, extremism spawns equal and opposite extremism. The Bohemian children of wealthy parents. The ambitious children of Bohemians. They are stereotypes for a reason. I have known many hard-core hippies, none of their children followed that path.

Making more mouths is just making more mouths, in a world of 7 BILLION human mouths.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Please, tell me about the particular resources your offspring will protect, and how they will do it in ways you couldn't or wouldn't.

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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by jacob »

Riggerjack wrote: Usually, extremism spawns equal and opposite extremism. The Bohemian children of wealthy parents. The ambitious children of Bohemians. They are stereotypes for a reason. I have known many hard-core hippies, none of their children followed that path.
To validate this (aside from confirming it from my own anecdotal observations):

See the "how it nurtures/is nurtured" rows indicating that this parity-flip tendency is to inflict the opposite pattern relative to the pattern received.

http://www.lifecourse.com/about/method/ ... types.html

In particular, if we're talking about Gen-X, the table predicts that we will overprotect our kids. This "protect the <inser>"-attitude will then backfire in the artist generation (children of Gen-X) who will generally display a careless attitude to protecting this and that. This coming to a planet near you starting 2030 or so once those kids begin to have material economic impacts.

[Nerd observation: If this parity-flip is the driving factor, the four-generation is the second-simplest way to explain the "turnings". It's likely constricted by human lifespan. Most people have little interaction with/influence from their great-grandparents.]

James_0011
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by James_0011 »

BRUTE wrote:what does James_0011 find unhealthy about them?
Roberts, H.J., M.D., Is Vasectomy Worth the Risk? Sunshine Sentinel Press, POB 8697, West Palm Beach, FL 33407.

Roberts, H.J., M.D., “Prostate Cancer and Vasectomy,” Townsend Letter for Doctors, April 1992, p. 277.

Rosenberg, L., et al. “Vasectomy and the Risk of Prostate Cancer,” Am. J. Epidemiol,. Vol. 132, 1051-1055 (1990).

Mettlin, C., et al. “Vasectomy and Prostate Cancer Risk,” Am. J. Epidemiol., Vol 132, 1056-1061 (1990).

"In a hormone survey of males who had emotional problems and impotence following vasectomy, as well as females who had nervous or emotional problems following tubal ligation, both groups had normal hormone levels immediately following surgery except for decreased progesterone. Taking a small dose of progesterone (5-10 mg) daily for only one week cured both males and females. Why? According to Peat, vasectomy sends a signal to the testicles to stop making progesterone. Tubal ligation as well as the IUD, sends the same signal to the ovaries. Peat’s research refers only to the initial weeks following the surgery. It does not apply to the long-term immune system, allergenic and carcinogenic effects described by Roberts."

http://www.litalee.com/shopexd.asp?ccod ... e+Problems

James_0011
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by James_0011 »

Jean wrote:Do you realize, that all the ressources that your probably future-minded chlidren would have blocked are going to be available for present minded children, resulting in a greater mid term destruction of our environment?
Go ahead and breed if you want, but don't claim its helping anyone.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Eh, pretty basic systems theory analysis will inform that sudden total disruption of production or reproduction is not likely to be the best solution either. I mean I am assuming that it's not the case that the middle-aged members of this forum who chose to not have children themselves held the preference that everybody else not have children too, so that as of this moment in time there would be only humans over the age of 40 left on the planet?

I would go so far as to further presume that given some small desire for continuation of the existence of the human species through some means being retained, there might also be some concept or opinion regarding better or worse situations under which some reproduction of humans would have taken place. For instance, it might not be ideal for human infant to be placed in pile of litter in crack house.

I am okay with my population zero litter of two, and I think I should get some street meme cred for the fact that one of them has a degree in Natural Resources Biology and the other holds expertise in Ancient Languages, and neither of them currently owns a car (lol.) Also, I am currently creating permaculture project which I intend to bequeath to my theoretical two or less grandchildren.

bryan
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by bryan »

If I were super sure about not wanting to breed, a vasectomy seems like a good choice. If you are not super sure, it's tough to pick any single method (hence why there are many methods).

Though, is pulling out/withdrawal method really that hard? I guess the urge to send/receive ejaculate is just too strong sometimes? Or perhaps it is more about it being actually risky to do more sex after a previous sex was done. I wonder how THEORETICAL EFFECTIVENESS was determined to be 96% (seems low, intuitively it should be ~99%). Generally I don't trust/consider the PRACTICAL EFFECTIVENESS as is it is not that applicable for individual actors (person A's practice of method achieves a PROBABLE EFFECTIVENESS of ~98% vs person B's at ~90%).

BRUTE
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by BRUTE »

James_0011 wrote:Go ahead and breed if you want, but don't claim its helping anyone.
haha, breeding. brute enjoys flipping the moral high ground on offspring-spawning. usually the humans with the largest number of spawn claim the moral high ground, as if polluting the planet with more of themselves is somehow a good thing.

few things seem more egoistical to brute than thinking "what the planet needs right now is more of brute's DNA running around, what's the easiest way to clone himself?"

bryan
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by bryan »

BRUTE wrote: few things seem more egoistical to brute than thinking "what the planet needs right now is more of brute's DNA running around, what's the easiest way to clone himself?"
or destroy the DNA of your competitors. The thoughts seem, at least, medieval. Ghengis Khan ftw.

Then again it's not that egotistical in the sense that your offspring are not you and may be a disappointment or bring shame to your name? Unless you could figure a socially acceptable way to keep your legacy's honour intact down the generations.. that would be a a bit more egotistical, indeed.
Last edited by bryan on Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Riggerjack
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Riggerjack »

I'm not say breeding is bad. I'm not self loathing, I'm good with having people around... at a distance. I would prefer fewer, but it's not up to me.

Maybe it's my liberal upbringing, but I do have an issue with hypocrisy. Telling me to respect the environment/save the planet, for your children is just a bit hypocritical. Coupling that to how "other people" need to have less children is downright wrong. Yet the list of prominent and less prominent progressives who have preached no breeding, then had a litter is almost as long as the list of progressives who lived to 30. I have no respect for anyone preaching that others should sacrifice beyond the sacrifice the preacher is willing to bear.

I didn't want children. Not having them was not a sacrifice.

In my ideal world, we would have a strain of super mumps come thru. Fever chills, 2 weeks of bedrest, and 90% sterility. In that world, population would collapse, and children would be cherished. Child abusers wouldn't make it to jail. When there's only 1 kid per block, everyone is watching. No kids in sweat shops, no kids mining trash heaps.

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Jean
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Jean »

The problem with the libertarian point of view is that the criterium for private property in not clear cut. For some people, looking at a landscape gives it value, for other, only mining does.
Which sets us back do violence to set property rights.
So I strongly encourage people I like to breed, and people I don't like to drink themselves to death. This is purely subjective, as everyone is.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

few things seem more egoistical to brute than thinking "what the planet needs right now is more of brute's DNA running around, what's the easiest way to clone himself?"
Few things seem more ridiculous to me than thinking raising children is equivalent to a choice in the moment to ejaculate ;) I chose to have children because I enjoy the work of caring for young children. I started babysitting when I was 10, and I am still teaching kindergarten part-time in my 50s. When I was raising my own children full-time, I almost always had another child in my care. I like spending a day making play-dough, reading picture books, pulling a wagon to the park, wiping off faces with towel monster and taking afternoon nap. I also find early childhood development fascinating. How is this individual two year old like every other two year old? How is she uniquely herself? I do pat myself on the back a bit that my kids, after no shortage of trials and tribulations, have landed on the other side as well-mannered adult citizens of the planet who are also interesting conversationalists, but mostly it makes me happy that my kids remember having a mostly fun childhood, because I enjoyed sharing that time with them too.

slowtraveler
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by slowtraveler »

I've been seriously thinking about getting one too. My current stance on kids is that I want to wait until 30 then reconsider but right now I don't see myself enjoying having kids, except for being able to teach them how things work and learning with them.

Vasalgel looks like a good options whenever it becomes available. I've signed up to possibly be in trials when that begins. <crossing my fingers>

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