Vasectomy? Child-free life?

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Hristo Botev
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Hristo Botev »

chenda wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:09 am

Although birthrates are falling in the west (and even more so parts of Asia) immigration is more than offsetting the decline in many cases. It's odd the article which @hristo linked to doesn't mention that. Indeed I think the percentage of Catholics in the US has sharply increased in recent decades, largely I assume through immigration (or at least nominally increased)
I’m not sure your numbers are accurate or at least up to date re “more than offsetting” or more Catholics in the US (which, if true and if immigration is to credit would mean less Catholics somewhere else, which is not good.) Also, statistics being what they are, how would one define Catholic? An immigrant coming from a country that may be historically catholic doesn’t make that immigrant a practicing Mass attending Catholic.

Re the article:
He also predicted that the decline of fertility among intellectuals would embolden them to challenge the validity of marriage itself; that it would take two generations (slowed by ­immigration) for family decay to become ­evident; and that the Christian Church would be the ­only cultural institution capable of encouraging a view of family grounded in something more than ­personal fulfillment.

Hristo Botev
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Hristo Botev »

lightfruit55 wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:11 am


What are some good/compelling reasons to have, or net benefits of having, kids?
Socrates would demand that you define your terms. This is an impossible question to answer without first defining what you mean by “good” and “beneficial.”

chenda
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by chenda »

Hristo Botev wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:20 am
I’m not sure your numbers are accurate or at least up to date re “more than offsetting” or more Catholics in the US (which, if true and if immigration is to credit would mean less Catholics somewhere else, which is not good.) Also, statistics being what they are, how would one define Catholic? An immigrant coming from a country that may be historically catholic doesn’t make that immigrant a practicing Mass attending Catholic.

Re the article:
No I was wrong about the US Catholic percentage (I misread some stats) Definition is usually self-identified, which as you say tells us little about actually religiosity. However it is the case the population of Northern Europe is increasing, despite a generally below replacement level birthrate.

lightfruit55
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by lightfruit55 »

ertyu wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:16 am
Assuming they are sufficiently abled and that you don't completely alienate them by being a shitty parent (both materially and emotionally), they will probably feel guilt about leaving you to rot in your old age.
True. Love and guilt are reasons why I care for my parents in their old age.

jacob
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by jacob »

FWIW, here's the "other thread" on having children, viewtopic.php?t=4878

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Seppia
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Seppia »

Ego wrote:
Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:49 pm
What are you trying to accomplish with a legacy? What are the underlying reasons for the desire to leave a legacy?
If I had to roughly describe my "life mission" it would be something like "leave everything a tiny bit better than it was when I joined".
So this is my purpose with family, friends, work organisations etc. I just want people (on average) to think "my life is X% better now after Seppia's been introduced in it".
The "better" is the loosely defined and unmeasurable average of everything social, economical, health, experience etc etc etc.
It could be as tiny as recommending a great restaurant to someone who's about to visit Rome, or as big as turning someone's career around from "we need to fire this guy" to "my god Jeff has been the top performer in the organisation for three years running" and the guy moving on to become a successful director somewhere else.

With this perspective and thanks to my almost infinite arrogance, I believe that I will be able to educate him into a "good" human being who's decent, honest and overall a positive force for the future.

All the above, plus the very instinctive and animal will not to be the carnivore dinosaur with duck-shaped beak that goes extinct because he can't bite anyone.

Hristo Botev
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Hristo Botev »

Seppia wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:32 am

All the above, plus the very instinctive and animal will not to be the carnivore dinosaur with duck-shaped beak that goes extinct because he can't bite anyone.
Leave it to humans to reason themselves out of existence, and to also think that is a good thing. Adds some context and depth to the “forbidden fruit” and the Fall in Genesis. I’m sure Kingsnorth has said something smart about all this.

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Ego
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Ego »

@Seppia, beautiful response. You will no doubt succeed in helping that child to become a beautiful human being.

DutchGirl
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by DutchGirl »

I can still wholeheartedly recommend to get that vasectomy or sterilisation and not have kids.

chenda
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by chenda »

In the final analysis, it's best to regret not having children than regret having them.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I am an agnostic rational, but I am also somebody who was either going to have 2 kids or 8 kids, because I've always felt that it was one of my purposes in life. For instance, I would be open to working part-time at an infant nursery again if the pay wasn't beyond abysmal (-don't even get me started on what this says about what our culture really values.) The rational in me won out, and I had my tubes tied after second child. Since I stopped having kids at relatively (within my peer group) young age, I've already been empty nest for around 15 years! I am hoping for grandchildren even with looming apocalypse etc. I predict that I will have either 0,1,or 2 at most because my kids are already into their 30s, and only one is married.

Anyways, the worst thing about having kids is not the work or expense. It's the worry. The way your heart just drops to the pit of your stomach when they are sick or unhappy or in danger. It's much worse than worrying about your own welfare.

From my current perspective, the best thing about having kids is that they might semi-accidentally (because in retrospect you really didn't know what the heck you were doing) turn out to be adults whose company you very much enjoy.

Salathor
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Salathor »

I got my vas a few months ago. It hurt like heck getting it, but I didn't need any pain meds afterward (not even tylenol). I just lay down for a few days and iced like crazy.

That said, I haven't done the post-op check to make sure I'm actually sterile. My wife and I don't want any more kids, but we were still kind of leaving it up to fate. I'm probably going to get the check done soon though. We're just a long way from the hospital.

@7Wannabe5 is absolutely right about the worrying about kids. Kids cost virtually nothing if you've got any ERE sensibilities, but man do you care about their welfare.

Laura Ingalls
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Laura Ingalls »

:arrow:
Salathor wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:25 pm


That said, I haven't done the post-op check to make sure I'm actually sterile. My wife and I don't want any more kids, but we were still kind of leaving it up to fate. I'm probably going to get the check done soon though. We're just a long way from the hospital.
Go check it out. I know two people whose first vas didn’t work. One of them had a spouse that ended up pregnant and having one more offspring than intended.

chenda
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by chenda »

Thinking about it women have loads of contraceptive options, whereas men only have condoms and sterilisation. There's been talk for years about developing a male version of the pill, which would be a welcomed development I think.

Also, I think it's possible for men to bank sperm pre-vasectomy if they later change their mind.

Humanofearth
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Humanofearth »

@Chenda
I believe there’s now a male birth control pill. IUD seems most efficient choice with lowest health cost for women as birth control pills affect hormones and this affects many processes, including arousal and attraction tendencies in women.

For men, vasalgel (reversible inhibition of sperm under guidance) is seeming the best option but it’s still too new for me to decide on it.

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Jean
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by Jean »

Not being appealed by the conveniance of being vasectomised is a selection criterion like any other.
It's just sad it seems to be inversly correlated with higher than average intelligence.
This might not be as bad as it might seems for humanity as a whole, because intelligence isn't that rare.

chenda
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Re: Vasectomy? Child-free life?

Post by chenda »

Humanofearth wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:07 pm
IUD seems most efficient choice with lowest health cost for women as birth control pills affect hormones and this affects many processes, including arousal and attraction tendencies in women.
Coils seem increasingly popular. Some swear by them but it can affect periods. Contraceptive implants are also popular but also have side effects and unlike the pill you can't just stop taking the hormone, you have to have the implant removed.

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