Which Vanguard Fund To Pick?

Ask your investment, budget, and other money related questions here
Post Reply
Star*Bucks
Posts: 293
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:27 am
Location: California

Which Vanguard Fund To Pick?

Post by Star*Bucks »

Hello Board Members, I have spent the last hour at Vanguards website trying to find a fund which is not at it's all time high (or near it). I am confused as I thought from what I read bonds, precious metals, and stocks all go opposite of each other to varying degrees. So since stocks are really high now I thought I could get into a bond fund since it should be lower (right?) but they are at their all time high's as well. I asked for help here before; months & months ago, when I had some money to invest and one of the very helpful people on this forum told me about VGENX Vanguards Energy Fund which I ended up buying at just over $40 per share and is now at $48.55 :mrgreen: Is there anything I'm missing? Should I just sit on this money I currently have until the market corrects itself i.e. when interest rates rise? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Feel free to be as candid as possible; I take all personal responsibility for the actions I choose to make, all you would be giving me is something to do more research on. I feel like that disclaimer is necessary since during my last post it seemed everyone who replied had their own disclaimer in each response :)

Thanks,

Star*Bucks

jacob
Site Admin
Posts: 16156
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
Contact:

Re: Which Vanguard Fund To Pick?

Post by jacob »

Yikes!

Vanguard/John Bogle has made a very successful business promoting the idea that "picking" and "timing" are de facto impossible ... so what's with the number of recent threads asking questions about picking or timing Vanguard funds?

If you want to time or pick indexes ... you should either be in the futures market or be capable for holding cash positions for multiple years at a time. In the latter case, cash is preferable now and probably until the Fed rate is back up to 4% which might not happen for the next 10 or 20 years. In the former case, about 10% of people trying really hard will achieve some level of success after a couple of years. That's approximately the same success level of being an entrepreneur. Maybe not surprisingly?

Serious question:

Are you going with Vanguard just because everybody else on the internet are saying they're the best because they're the best?

Do you believe in the Boglehead philosophy?

Do you think you know someone or something that most investors don't?

Star*Bucks
Posts: 293
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:27 am
Location: California

Re: Which Vanguard Fund To Pick?

Post by Star*Bucks »

Hey Jacob, I'm going with Vanguard primarily for 3 reasons. Firstly they have lots of low cost funds, second they are not like the other investment firms that nickel n dimed me for everything (it seemed) and lastly for convenience. So I can have everything at one investment house. I am a novice at best and I believe in long term investing. But it's really scary to go in and buy at the high end of the market. I am a long term investor & these funds are rolled over from TDAmeritrade (Consolidating to Vanguard and I was hit on the way out with an account closure fee, urgh) it's an IRA so it will be decades before I need these funds so it should be fine but I thought since stocks were so high, shouldn't bonds be cheaper or precious metals be cheaper? I also read about the permanent portfolio and how the people who use that method just reallocate every so often.

Dragline
Posts: 4436
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:50 am

Re: Which Vanguard Fund To Pick?

Post by Dragline »

I would not do anything with it until I came up with a long-term investment plan. Then I would implement that plan. Slowly if I was feeling uneasy.

Read up on your options at our very own Tyler's site: https://portfoliocharts.com/commentary/

Star*Bucks
Posts: 293
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:27 am
Location: California

Re: Which Vanguard Fund To Pick?

Post by Star*Bucks »

Pretty cool website Dragline, thank you! I will take your advice n hold off for a bit and do more research...

Lucky C
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:09 am

Re: Which Vanguard Fund To Pick?

Post by Lucky C »

I agree with what others are saying here, however there are asset classes / Vanguard funds that meet OP's requirement of not being at their all time high:

VEIEX - Emerging markets, peaked in 2007, lower price:book and price:earnings ratios than total stock market
VGPMX - Precious metals and mining, peaked in 2008.
Also various other international ETFs are down from where they were a year ago or longer: VGK, VEU, VXUS, VEA, VPL, VSS

In general the cheaper funds right now are ones that are more correlated with commodity prices (emerging markets, mining), or other international funds influenced by recent issues (slowing global growth, Brexit, etc.) For a long term time horizon, say 10 years, these "cheaper" funds may prove to be a better deal than the currently pricy US stock and bond funds. Obviously in the short term it is risky to dive right into a lot of high-volatility international/commodity-based funds just because they're at a discount.

However, I don't think picking funds based on not being at all-time highs is a very good idea.

bryan
Posts: 1061
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:01 am
Location: mostly Bay Area

Re: Which Vanguard Fund To Pick?

Post by bryan »

Lucky C wrote:
However, I don't think picking funds based on not being at all-time highs is a very good idea.
Would be nice if a tool that is a hybrid of some of the portfoliocharts.com stuff and robo-advisor tools. Basically allowing an input of 1) custom/highlighted asset allocation to test, 2) the asset allocation buy-in function (to what extant the investor is dollar cost averaging i.e. with an income and savings or excess cash) and buy picker (this week you would have bought 10 shares of GLD and 2 shares of TSM based on some metric, like asset is not in upper 95% of it's inflation adjusted price). And the resulting blog posts, paper on patterns seen (the more the lump-sum the better, better to start with buying the TSM portion, etc).

If @tyler9000 created such a tool with a nice UI like other robos and converted the excel-like work into something more "natural-to-the-web" like other robos, I think he could be acquired pretty quickly..
Last edited by bryan on Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

IlliniDave
Posts: 3909
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm

Re: Which Vanguard Fund To Pick?

Post by IlliniDave »

Since I started investing the SP500 has reached a new "all-time high" 67 times according to the granularity of this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closing_m ... _S%26P_500

That's an average of > 2x/year.

In reality it is more than that because new "all-time highs" are reached in between the selected milestones. And that (I believe) is only looking at the price index and does not include the effects of dividends (i.e., total return).

Essentially all of my buying has occurred at or near the "all-time highs". If you think about it, you should only invest in a stock index (or any collection of stocks for that matter) if you think there's a reasonable likelihood they will increase in value in the future. If that proves true, more often than not they will be trading at or near an "all-time high". I keep putting quotes around the term "all-time high" because it is often used as an alarmist term that sneakily implies a permanence (i.e., it will necessarily go down from here), rather than the probable truth that it is just the "high so far".

If you truly believe US stocks are headed down for the long term (a la Japan ~1989/90) you should probably avoid them and choose something else to invest in.

There's nothing wrong with making contrarian investments, sometimes they pay off pretty well. It's a guilty little hobby of mine :). But it can be a slow and painful process waiting for them to pay off while you watch the boring old SP 500 grind upward through new highs. Sometimes they never really do. I've put a little dab of money into oil stocks (via VGENX), mining stocks (VGPMX); and more into Total International ex-US (don't remember ticker), and Emerging Markets (don't remember ticker) over the last 3 years for that reason (contrarian speculation). The latter two are probably still relatively cheap. VGPMX was up almost 90% this year last I looked, so I don't know how much further it can go in the short term. VGENX was also up pretty good too since I bought it, and might have decent medium-term prospects still. The others have been a drag. Altogether those four funds comprise 30-35% of my portfolio tops (and the Total International and Emerging Markets are part of my core portfolio).

I agree with Dragline, don't do anything right now and take some time and figure out a plan for yourself and write it down. A little speculation on the margin is okay, but it should be an embellishment of a solid plan, not the plan itself. PortfolioCharts is very good for analyzing candidates, and the wiki over at bogleheads.org has a lot of good basic information about investing and personal finance in general.

Tyler9000
Posts: 1758
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:45 pm

Re: Which Vanguard Fund To Pick?

Post by Tyler9000 »

@Bryan -- Nice! I don't want to derail this topic, but I'd be interested in more info here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6635&p=122907#p122907

tylerrr
Posts: 679
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:32 am
Location: Boston

Re: Which Vanguard Fund To Pick?

Post by tylerrr »

or you could just invest in a 4 part permanent portfolio, sit back, and relax.

Locke
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:10 pm

Re: Which Vanguard Fund To Pick?

Post by Locke »

As Dragline et. al mentioned above, investors should choose a long-term strategy and stick with it. Every expert, author, or fund uses a unique investing strategy, and time will show which are the best (though, many will work). David Swensen, PhD, CFO of the Yale endowment fund, wrote an EXCELLENT cerebral book for individual investors titled Unconventional Success. NPR has simplified his advice into short articles listed below.

Yale Money Whiz Shares Tips on Growing a Nest Egg, http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=89324244

Yale's Money Guru Shares Wisdom with Masses, http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=6203264

You can also compare his portfolio's performance to other diversified index strategies here: http://www.marketwatch.com/lazyportfolio

Good luck with your investing!

Locke

Post Reply