Nomadic-ERE Year 5 - Wanderlust Prevails

Where are you and where are you going?
2Birds1Stone
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

basuragomi wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:25 pm
but it isn't a real solution.
I'm not sure there is a solution if you're not willing to either stay put and purchase your abode, or purchase something and rent it out in your absence with the option of moving in if SHTF.

@Ego, then I better start kitting out a sweet car-camping and bikepacking setup so my future self doesn't turn into a wedding crasher with tuxedos in three different shades of black. All kidding aside, very valid points

@Suo, what makes you say that? Maybe you know something I don't.

On work

I'm very unmotivated at the present time, to do nearly anything related to work. It's been a wasted week so far. My role is very much dependent on output (sales), so it will be interesting to see what eventually lights a fire under my ass.

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by Seppia »

Great update.
A few thoughts:

On "we solved problems with money and our WL took a hit". I think this is a normal byproduct of your situation.
You have a certain amount of mental energy that is depleted every time you make "efforts" (it can be trained like a muscle, but up to a point), so if you spend it somewhere you have less available for other tasks.
A simple example: when I start a new job/role, I always tend to put up weight. This is because I'm dedicating the energy to the job and I am less disciplined on the eating/drinking/exercising side.
So similarly, you've been going thorough a lot of changes that probably needed a lot of attention, and you went the "easy" route with other stuff.
One of the benefits of having money is being able to selectively use it for an easy out. Can't use it too often, but rarely it's ok. Kinda like a smart bomb in a shooter videogame if you see what I mean.

On housing, what you write is precisely the reason why I had decided to buy a small apartment in an area I know I could live.
I would much rather live my ERE years renting in areas that I like (because of the added option changing our minds), but I want a fallback solution in case of SHTF scenarios.
The more time goes by, the more I think it's what works best for me

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

@Seppia, if I hadn't accepted this position in NY, we would be in Poland right now shopping for an apartment in a tier-2 city.

The apartments will be there when this stint of work is done though, and the income from ~2 years work will more than cover the complete cost of the apartment. I wrote about this idea back in March, and it's been on my mind on and off since then.

RE: mental energy, I agree with you to a point. It's similar to decision fatigue and why so many successful people automate many parts of their life to reduce the need to make choices that don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

It's funny how our financial standards impact our perception of spending. To me it's been an expensive month, yet we will still likely have a 60%+ net savings rate. "Normal" people would think that's insane.

I found a bout of motivation at work yesterday, created a to-do list, and got more than half of it done, with the goal of chopping it in half yet again by close of business today. Had a very thought provoking conversation with a coworker yesterday. He's been with the company for a while, and pointed out that several of our peers have figured out a way to work ~20-25 hours a week and be extremely successful year after year. Like with anything else, in sales if you focus your time in the right places it can yield great results. Some people work 110% to be #1, I'm ok working 50% to be in the upper middle of the pack, the middle of the pack gets fed very well here.

It really makes sense to stick around until at least late spring of next year, maxing out pre-tax retirement accounts and Roth IRA's + 0% federal tax bracket at this pay rate would only take 5 months, by then I should have a really good sense if sticking around any longer makes sense. Staying in this area with these expenses will likely end up bringing our TTM spending up to ~5-6X JAFI's for the household.......hold off with the tar and feathers for now.

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by suomalainen »

Oh, just circle of life. Marriage tends to increase the reverberations of the ticking of the biological clock and both internal and external pressure increase. Just sayin' I won't be surprised to see 3birds1stone soon enough. At least the abbreviation won't change (tb1s) so you'll have that going for you.

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

That's a good point, should probably get snipped sooner than later.

In typical fashion.....

I was stumbling along the ERE journey and ended up taking a wrong turn, only to find myself nearly waist deep in Plato's cave.

A lot of people claim FI, post about it a few times, and disappear into the nether world never to be heard from again. 2B1S made a promise to himself to stick around and share the good, bad, and ugly. This post is likely going to be an incoherent rambling/brain dump that's been brewing for a while.

A few months ago things were going pretty well. We were traveling around the SE USA, avoiding winter "back home", and both had sweet WFH gigs that meant we could dream up an endless amount of possibilities for the foreseeable future. Somehow we ended up back in a lifestyle/routine that mirrors very closely what we left behind nearly two years ago. I've been more reluctant to post here lately, frankly because I feel like somewhat of an ERE failure. Things have not improved with work over the past three weeks. That burst of productivity a few weeks ago lasted exactly one day. There are two sides of my brain at odds with each other. By ERE standards I don't need to be working at all, and it's consuming more mental energy/headspace than it ought to. Rationally the cash is too good to pass up, and on paper the time commitment is not bad at all. It's not like I've figured out anything better to do with these hours of my life that are currently spent working or procrastinating doing real work. If it wasn't for the $$$, I would NOT be doing this. Yet I can't bring myself to walk away. No clue what the right answer is here. I thought things would improve with the change in companies. But it's one master for another. This one serves better kool-aid, and offers more dollars per hour, but it's still prison.
Last edited by 2Birds1Stone on Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bankai
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by Bankai »

Good update and a timely post as I'm just back from 2 weeks off and feeling miserable on my 1st day at work. Sharing challenges is of great value to the community, so thanks for that. I'm in a somewhat similar situation - at 4.5% SWR I could potentially pull the plug, although it would be a high-risk move with double-digit failure rate historically. Also, I calculate based on last 24 months so spending was artificially lower than in normal years (no travel etc.). Further difficulty added due to DW not currently working and with a smaller stash. So it makes sense to stick around untill my target of 3.5%.

I get the impression that you frame it as a negative choice, i.e. between 2 bad alternatives (either w*rk that you don't want/need or settling for stash that might prove insufficient in future). Would it help if you reframe it as a positive choice? Either post-ERE adventures or adding some more safety margin to your future retirement. That way you'd focus on the positives of whichever option you choose vs. bad/missing out on the one you don't.

Another thing it to set 'hard stops'. This could be age (i.e. no work after 40 under any circumstances as long as stash is at least sufficient), NW ($1M?) or monthly savings (no point working for a month if it only adds 0.5% to your NW) or whatever else works for you. Might also start planning your next big adverture which will put a time stop on your current spell of w*rk.

Whatever you do, please keep updating! Most of us here will at some point face these very struggles and are very few sharing their experiences of this part of the journey.

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by Ego »

2Birds1Stone wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:03 am
Rationally the cash is too good to pass up, and on paper the time commitment is not bad at all. It's not like I've figured out anything better to do with these hours of my life that are currently spent working or procrastinating doing real work. If it wasn't for the $$$, I would NOT be doing this. Yet I can't bring myself to walk away. No clue what the right answer is here.
Lately I've had an irrational (?) thought along these lines rolling around in my head.

Two types of work:

Type 1: Produces income.
Type 2: Produces the stuff that income would otherwise purchase. It skips over the process of earning-buying.

In the past I poked fun at those who garden to provide food because it seems the tomatoes always ripen at the exact time they are practically giving them away at the store, making the dollar value of the work very low.

I've since realized that a dollar produced by Type 1 work is not equal to a dollar produced by Type 2 work. And that it is not just for hobby income. I've found it to be true for things that I should view as work... in other words, things that would be work if I were getting paid but don't feel like T1 work because we are getting paid in stuff rather than cash. Perfectly irrational in the same way that loss aversion is irrational.

If the "work" of T1 work is psychologically 4x or 6x harder dollar-for-dollar than T2 work then is it irrational?

I wonder if there is a way to short circuit the (opportunity) loss aversion you are experiencing by taking on some T2 work. Counterbalance one irrationality with another. Hah!

Anyway, sorry for the detour.

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by mooretrees »

I was thinking about your post on a long drive today. One thought I had was about the lack of examples of other ways of living. If all you've know is this salaryman way and all those around you are doing it, sometimes it is hard to imagine a different path. I know AxelHeyst started a recent thread to showcase people living different lives. Plus, while you did take a significant amount of time off, it was certainly affected by the pandemic. At some point, it seems that the money is less important than finding out what else is in you to explore. And while you have done some traveling, I think some significant time off in a single location is more conducive to figuring out what the next step is. I stress one location because it is hard to get started with anything that involves other people if you're constantly moving around. Perhaps you'll want to do something solo, in that case a single location is not crucial, but maybe it is.

To be clear, I wonder if you need to spend some time daydreaming and imagining what else you could do with yourself. I think it is clear that money is a solved problem for you, and you're obviously wondering why you're still pursuing it. So why not dream up three to five projects that interest you and start pursuing them? Find a local problem in your community and see if you can help figure out how to solve it. The key thing seems to be to not get wrapped in succeeding immediately. Perhaps the first two ideas flop, but you've gained some clarity about where you want to head. You don't need to quit your job to do this. Instead you need to push yourself to focus on something else.

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by AxelHeyst »

2Birds1Stone wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:03 am
Rationally the cash is too good to pass up, and on paper the time commitment is not bad at all.
What makes taking the cash rational? Phrased another way, what makes not taking the cash irrational? You declared yourself FI a few years ago, the cash theoretically makes no difference to your lifestyle, unless you have rationally and deliberately moved the goalposts of what you consider FI. So my question is: if the decision to work for $$ is rational, fine, but I’m not seeing it (I might have missed a previous post covering it). If the decision to work for $$ post-FI is emotional, also fine — but slapping a “rational” label on an emotional decision is probably a mixup that ought to be fixed before you can possibly figure out what the “right” answer is. [eta-this came out snarkier than I meant. The word ‘rational’ popped out at me, and I’m wondering how it holds up to your scrutiny, is all.]

Mooretrees’ comment on how it might be important to be in one place for a period of time in order to figure your postFI life out resonated with me. I’ve been wandering since 2016, and the sheer amount of attentional energy that lifestyle requires represents a large opportunity cost in terms of what else I can be doing with my mind/energy/life.
Last edited by AxelHeyst on Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by Western Red Cedar »

2Birds1Stone wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:03 am
A lot of people claim FI, post about it a few times, and disappear into the nether world never to be heard from again. 2B1S made a promise to himself to stick around and share the good, bad, and ugly. This post is likely going to be an incoherent rambling/brain dump that's been brewing for a while.
I appreciate you following through on this. I think the period after quitting work or hitting FI is the most interesting. It's a little difficult to trust some bloggers on this front.

Don't beat yourself up too much about continuing to plug away at work. You made the initial decision after returning to the states when everything was still shut down. You were also balancing some of DW's career aspirations with other options. I'm sure you won't mind a little extra financial security a few years down the road.

Make sure to savor this time with friends and family in the NE. Who knows when you'll be back.

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by zbigi »

Ego wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:23 pm

If the "work" of T1 work is psychologically 4x or 6x harder dollar-for-dollar than T2 work then is it irrational?
For me, it's because the 4x or 6x multiplier is not nearly enough. My post-tax hourly wage buys 100 pounds of tomatoes. The modern economy is just that efficient.

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by jacob »

Instead of looking at this as rational vs irrational, it's time to consider the post-rational. What's rational is converting the full value spectrum to dollars using market rates. However, at some point it's realized that a) maybe the market rates are not your rates (market price /= your value); and b) not all goods are available from the market.

In short, it's rational to maximize everything in terms of personal dollars, but only seeing the world in terms of dollars (and what you can buy) is also personally limiting (there's more to living than shopping).

Even shorter, this is a WL5/6 issue, i.e. optimizing by income vs seeking yields for their own sake. Basically a dissonance has been detected. WL6 is the usual way out.

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

Wish I had the mental capacity and words to respond to everyone in one shot, but I don't so it will take a bit to internalize the advice/thoughts y'all graciously shared and reciprocate. Thank you!

@Bankai, you bring up some great points. The first is around framing, and I agree that my posts come across as pessimistic. Depending on the day, that could be how I feel about these choices. I try to practice an attitude of gratitude, and when I think about how lucky we are to be in the position we are......it seems so foolish. So thank you for pointing that out. If we settled in a LCOL country or area in the USA, we would be fine with what we have. And it's not like we wouldn't earn another cent over the next 30+ years either. The only reason I got a job last fall was our imminent return to the USA during a global pandemic without a place to live, health insurance, or any source of income. We luckily both found work very quickly, although mine happens to pay a significantly higher wage than my spouses. Therefor I feel a sense of obligation to continue working so we can both not work sooner than if I quit and she continues to work. The math is quite staggering if looked at from a traditional FIRE perspective. But, this is ERE, and not MMM or Bogleheads......

The first hard-stop we have is June 1, 2023. Golden handcuffs.....but not that far away. We will be 36/32 years old by then, so still pretty young by mainstream standards, but I don't think I can hack it for another 22 months.

There is also an element of fear that keeps me working. Not fear of long term ability to survive/thrive, but short term fear that this recovery over past 12 months is a house of cards, and we are still yet to see the true fallout from this crazy global pandemic situation. Our current income is not crazy, but well above median US household....which makes me feel like it would put us in a good spot if shit does hit the fan and we see runaway inflation + economic hardship in the near/medium term.

/rant

I know a lot of the folks on here are much more intelligent than I, so apologies for the subsequent brain dumps. At least it feels good to get these thoughts out of my head and out here.

Edited for grammar.....which is still subpar.
Last edited by 2Birds1Stone on Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

@Ego, I've been thinking about your reply since yesterday. The problem I've identified and need to address as soon as possible, is that my skills limit how much type 2 work I'm able to do. In years past, I've focused on efficiency and "hacks" to get what I/we want/need through some creative means, but I have not been able to call myself a true "producer" in the ERE sense. Living in an apartment in the NE USA it's not easy to produce a significant % of ones food. We're not really consumers of much else....the biggest costs I see over the next few decades are healthcare, housing, taxes and the selfish pursuit of leisure via vagabonding.

Before we left the USA in early 2020, our TTM spending was down to <$36k/yr for two people in a very high cost of living area, all in. Aside from those living in actual poverty, I can't imagine anyone in our area doing better. None of this felt like a sacrifice, and we lived a very abundant lifestyle. We leveraged social capital, societies waste streams, and flexibility to live like poor aristocrats. Due to inflation in housing costs, this same lifestyle would now cost ~$42-48k/yr, putting us in the realm of 4.5-5.5% WR territory, with 2.4% of that being our rent!

The simple answer would be to once again "hack" our housing costs and move to an area with free/low healthcare costs.....but at the present time we value being near friends and family too much.

TLDR; we don't spend much on "things" but recent inflation in housing/healthcare costs is the big unknown for us as renters.

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

mooretrees wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:30 pm
I was thinking about your post on a long drive today...............

...........So why not dream up three to five projects that interest you and start pursuing them? .......snip
mooretrees, you hit the nail on the head with your observations. The current situation is not uncomfortable enough to spur change/action on its own, and I have nothing to do *instead* of maintaining current trajectory. This is pretty pathetic when I introspect, because a few years ago I had so many ideas for things to do when not working (volunteering, pursuing amateur athletics, reading, self-learning, getting out in nature more), yet I've recently lacked the imagination to do these things.

Part of it has been a fight-flight response to the mental damage/stress of the past 18 months, and going back to what's secure. This is very bad, because when we worship perceived security and put it above all else, do we really live our lives? Maybe it was Axel's journal where someone posted on this topic, but it hit home pretty hard. In general things have not gone all that well since returning to the USA on several fronts. The job funk is part of it, my diet has been terrible, I've been less active/motivated to be active, and I'm finding myself slipping into old bad habits that were nearly gone in 2019/2020.

I'm going to think about what it is that I want to focus my time on outside of work, and start taking actions to make progress with each until my limiting factor becomes the job. Surely if I find something that I'm more passionate about, the problem should solve itself somehow.

Some ideas that have been in my head are;

1) refocus significant energy/time on physical and mental health, specifically more mindful and intentional diet (both sources and amounts), more activity each day, and start a mindfulness/gratitude practice

2) set some goals for athletic pursuits, and follow through. One constant throughout my adult life has been working toward some sort of physical pursuit. Whether it was powerlifting, drug free bodybuilding, triathlon, cycling, training for a MTB endurance race, etc.....having a training plan and sticking to it provided great satisfaction and sense of purpose, and while completing the event was usually rewarding, the journey was always the highlight for me. Covid put a damper on this, as did traveling.......but I haven't ran a mile in over a year, and I'm just slowly getting back into MTB. I need to sign up for some sort of race/event for accountability and start training.

3) learn a practical skill, such a woodworking/repair, electrical, etc. I'm not sure how to best approach this. With a small apartment and no workshop/tools, I don't want to start a hobby with high startup costs and space requirements only to realize it was a waste of time.......I've thought about habitat for humanity or a local college/technical school class......will have to mull this over a bit more. I would like to convert a trailer or van at some point into an adventure vehicle/pod........and that will require a lot of learning (whether formal or youtube) and I feel like it's going to be a fun project......but our timeline is off for trying to do this now. Storage would be a pain if we're going to leave the country in the next phase of our adventure.

4) get back into mentoring. this is a vague one, but I've enjoyed both sides of mentoring, having mentored a dozen or so individuals over the years, as well as having regular mentors in my adult life. Most of these originated from work (my mentors), and were firstly career focused but later on turned into great mentors in other aspects of life.

5) get my thinking/actions back into the WL5.5-6 range......and act on it....this one is should fall into place as I get further into 1-4

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

AxelHeyst wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:18 pm
What makes taking the cash rational? ---snip

snip---- [eta-this came out snarkier than I meant. The word ‘rational’ popped out at me, and I’m wondering how it holds up to your scrutiny, is all.]

Maybe rational isn't the right word, though I am subconsciously trying to justify/rationalize it!

When I first declared myself FI, I was selfishly thinking of only myself, despite being in a committed relationship. Since then I got engaged and subsequently married. DW was at a much earlier point in her accumulation phase than I, so when we started looking at our nut and spending as a combined household, the math changed drastically. I could certainly quit and cover my half of the expenses using a 3% withdrawal rate, but that would likely leave her with another 5-7 years in a traditional career left before the math worked for her as an individual. My income potential is currently 3X hers, and I need to *work* half as hard for it.

While I would be fine living in a van down by the river, a la dirtbagging style.....she's not on board with that level of non-normal. The pandemic adventure we had, and subsequent scrambling to find suitable housing and health insurance upon our return to the USA has left it's mark on her risk appetite and need for a sense of stability/security. I won the DW lottery in many ways, and she's definitely down for some very unconventional lifestyle choices, but has a more traditional sense of FIRE goals when it comes to the financial safety net side of things.

By working 1 month, I'm able to save/invest almost as much as she can in 4-5 months in absolute terms, thereby shortening her perceived necessary work timeline significantly with each month that passes.

None of this makes ERE sense, that's for sure. Because we could easily quit today, and be fine for a decade without any income, at which point we may need some PT/seasonal work to bridge the gap to social security, or find some other creative ways like others have pointed out to acquire the *extras* beyond the bare essentials.

You brought up a good point in your journal not too long ago, that planning anything beyond 10-20 years is just plain silly from a financial perspective. This is something we've yet to collectively internalize. I was pretty close, and need to get my head back there.

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

@WRC, I made the choice to go back, but didn't realize how hard it would be to stay committed to a mentally demanding job after getting that long taste of freedom. Even though my intentions may be good, it could be doing more harm......to be determined as I work through these feelings/thoughts.

Definitely trying to embrace the time here! Especially over the coming months, fall is my favorite time of year here by far.

Our next slow travel jaunt will have us away from this area for 6-12 months minimum.....

@Zbigi, that's one way to look at it. Too much of even a good thing can be not so great.

I'm reminded of the idea that without practical application, "slack" in our financial system is meaningless. All of the extra 1's and 0's tucked away in some bank account to be deployed at a future date do nothing for us if we don't harness them in some meaningful way. So while I get what WRC is saying, I don't necessarily think that "more" money will necessarily = more financial security. That security would be much improved through other methods of resilience.

@Jacob, I had to google what port-rationalism meant. This is going to take some time to internalize and understand, but I think I get the point you're trying to make. Focusing too much on the financial parts of this whole conundrum is myopic. The WL's surely help frame things in a way that's helpful. Felt good progress there in 2019 and early 2020......slid backwards a bit though......back to the drawing board.

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by AxelHeyst »

I appreciate your thoughts on this, being in a similar-but-different situation in some ways. DGF's financial future is only hazily incorporated into my own strategy, which is a weak point.

I don't know that you working *doesn't* make sense from an ERE perspective, necessarily. You working at 3x the earning potential to get you both, as a family unit, to some FI target, in order to never worry about making money again, seems to me a fine strategy. You will have more options for what your lives can look like if neither of you are constrained by having to earn income. (e.g. from my circumstance: DGF's most efficient form of income generation is nanny work, which constrains her to towns where affluent families live).

But also as you said, who knows what the future will bring and maybe you'll both want to be doing PT/seasonal work anyway, making the money you're earning now (/time your spending now) pointless. I think it's just a matter of intentionality - you seem to have slipped into current circumstance less from a grand strategic stance, and more from a bit of a Covid-related scrambled lets-figure-something-out perspective. Which I have a ton of sympathy for, most of the decisions of my past five years having been made from that stance, and it's not fun at all. It sounds like you're doing the work to get out of emergency-reaction thinking and back into hey-wait-this-is-my-damn-life-ima-do-what-I-want thinking, which is great. Looking forward to following along. :)

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by Laura Ingalls »

@ego

“In other words, the stuff that past-you decided to keep makes changes to future-you less indelible than a clean slate would.”

I think having the life experience of a house fire has changed me (and the rest of my crew) mostly for the better. I have had a hard time articulating why/how to others but you are definitely on to something with our statement.

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by Jin+Guice »

Yo, what everyone else said.

But also, you are kind of stuck in the classic sticking place of WL5/ WL6 border. It's hard to get out of. It took a break up for me to get out of it. It takes a mindset shift out of solving problems with money. It's way more work than just getting more money, bc when you are trying to get more money you at least know what you have to do and have some idea how to do it. So the problem becomes doing it best. Going to WL6 is starting from scratch. You go from an optimizing stage to a discovery stage where you don't even know what you have to do, and then it takes until WL8 for you to be optimizing your new strategy again.

Figuring out what to do post work is really hard. It's a whole identity shift. All of the sudden the time is all your own. I think traveling is a cool way to fill this void, but I think for most people, constant travel becomes boring/ alienating after a few years. Maybe you need to get it out of your system, but I would take that time to think of what to do next.

Do you want to take responsibility for your wife's retirement? Personally I refuse to take responsibility for anyone else's financial situation. Do you want to lock yourself into another 5-7 years of the same mindset and problems for your wife? Is this really just you kicking the can down the road? I'm not discouraging you from helping someone you love, if that is what you really want to do. If it's not really what you want to do, then I think this is the road to resentment over time. Why is there no option for you to be retired and your wife to continue working? How does she feel about you helping her? Sorry to grill you, but this is a pretty major decision that I haven't heard a lot about from you (or a lot of other people).


Something subtle and weird happened to me when I got out of the church of indexing. I decided I couldn't count on my money growing and stopped treating it like a giant low interest savings account that would naturally grow at 3% a year. All of the sudden I went back to think of it as what I converted it back into, a bunch of money slowly losing value. But then an unexpected mentality shift happened. If my money is guaranteed producer of more money, then earning a bunch of it is sort of pointless. This is @AH's "planning beyond 10-20 years is kind of pointless" rephrased, but it really didn't hit me until I got out of the 3% savings account mentality. That 3% bar puts the goal at a convenient difficulty level. Work really hard and be a good for a long time and you can earn your freedom. You know I love to say that freedom is earned way before 33x expenses and that if you're surviving and thriving below poverty level in the first world, you are already free. But not counting on your money to automatically return 3% makes earning money for like 35 years from now really seem as weird as I think it actually it is. Like why am I doing this at all? I'm not trying to argue whether index investing is a good strategy or not. It's just that assuming your money returns x% automatically, which we all know is not true, otherwise why work a day extra ever or have golden handcuffs or get one more year syndrome, really highlights how weird it is to keep working past a certain point.


I want to double down on the failure of money to provide actual security. Since the start of the pandemic I've had a lot of break throughs not using money and just really fucking around. It's actually pretty easy and fun on this side, when you have a shit ton of money, especially if you haven't severed all ties to the money tap. There are a lot of bullshit artists out there pretending to do hippie shit, but actually backstopped by money. The real move is that the money is there to save you when you fuck up. It's like literally me and two other dudes just banging chicks, doing drugs, shredding guitar licks, throwing dinner parties, amateur farming and stealing trash to give to homeless people. It's like being a fucking pirate captain who only hangs out with other pirate captains. Building financial capital sucks. Building social and personal capital is pretty fun, if you can get over the existential crisis of being responsible for your own time/ direction. Eventually using money becomes the boring/ lame way to get anything done. You also realize how fucking fragile the house of cards is. Everything we've ever done relies on this insane web of interconnected global commerce. It's really almost beautiful until you see a grown man cry bc some poor vendor ran out of his favorite hot dog condiment. Anyway, money is just one way of getting stuff and if shit ever goes at all sideways, it's the most removed way of getting stuff. It's weird to think about, bc it is the best/ most accepted way now, but it really won't work if SHTF at all (kind of saw this during corona).

Working a job also limits future earning potential. It's weird to me that there is not an extremely successful FIRE entrepreneur. Maybe it's MMM? I'm surprised someone didn't free up all that time and have the major mindset shift to not want to work all the time, only to start a business doing something cool that they then figure out how to delegate. No one ever got really rich working for someone else. To me this is just one more reason why you should figure out how to do cool shit.

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