Nomadic-ERE Year 5 - Wanderlust Prevails

Where are you and where are you going?
2Birds1Stone
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

@Frugalchicos, we came really close to buying a single family home in FL but ultimately walked away from the deal. After much deliberation we decided that while we want to own something of our own, it won't be at the cost of being FI. We're still looking in a very specific area down there, but pivoting to a deeded townhouse or condo. We want to be able to afford all housing carrying costs leveraging our portfolio vs. having to work. We will likely put 50% down and have a payment all inclusive of taxes and HOA of ~$1000-1200/month. This won't limit our ability to travel and be nomadic like a SFH would.

We are also pretty set on getting a flat somewhere in the EU in the future. Between the two we will have a lot of options down the line.

Frugalchicos
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by Frugalchicos »

That sounds great. Definitely, having a low fix housing expense is key to FI. Keep in mind expenses add up pretty quickly if you have to renovate stuff, especially with a house where a roof, gutters, garden, etc are at play.

All the best in your research. I have no doubt you will choose the best option.

Western Red Cedar
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by Western Red Cedar »

Sounds like a very successful month. I'm following along your housing decisions with interest. I continue to find myself weighing the pros and cons of purchasing something before taking off on a grand adventure while I still have a steady paycheck and qualify for a traditional mortgage.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

The markets have been brutal to most of us passive ETF investors as of late. We're down ~2.5 years of living expenses in 16 weeks as of right now. Definitely glad to have a paycheck for the time being, though that time is coming to an end. The itch to jump off and do some slow travel without the job is getting stronger. My compensation for 2022 was very much frontloaded, and the upside for the rest of the year is very low. For now, DW and I are taking it month by month, shoveling whatever we can into the suppressed market until the opportunity presents itself to make a clean break. Work is taking up very little of my time since early March, and it should continue to be this way for a few more months.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

May 1, 2021
NW = 25.6X TTM Spending (-.6 month over month)
WR = 3.9%
April Savings Rate = 95.9%

Activity
2 miles ran
14 times lifting weights
130 miles MTB
125 miles walking
2.2 lb gain, 7-day average 211.2 lbs

Musings

We had an incredibly high income month due to lumpy incentive compensation and a generous family gift earmarked for future real estate purchase.

The remainder of the year will see significantly lower income and subsequently savings rate (projecting 60-65% until one/both of us quits).

The markets wiped out nearly all of our savings/investment contributions. We are however still hovering around a 4% WR based on TTM spending. TTM spending is projected to climb until it levels off towards the end of summer. By then I'm hoping things shake out with the markets and the geopolitical situation in Europe. If things aren't in full blown collapse mode, I see us taking a long trip to the Iberian peninsula in September.

Work went from relaxing with high compensation to stressful with baseline compensation, this is going to be interesting to document here. In the past I didn't do well when this happened.
Last edited by 2Birds1Stone on Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 3 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

June 1, 2022
NW = 25.9X TTM Spending (+.3 month over month)
WR = 3.9%
May Savings Rate = 92.9%

Activity
3.1 miles ran
13 times lifting weights
170 miles MTB
185 miles walking
1.6 lb gain, 7-day average 212.8 lbs

Musings

May flew by quickly. We had some pretty incredible weather that was conducive to tons of walking and mountain biking. I made a point to try to get out on the trails at least once on the weekend and one weekday morning. We drove very little and had our lowest spending month since June 2021, when we were still living in a LCOL area. Markets ended up slightly up, which was welcome after several months of drops.

I predict that we will be employed for another six to eleven months from this point. Eleven would be the absolute max as that's when the last golden handcuffs related to employer retirement contributions vesting take place, and six would be the soonest as that's when DW has some golden handcuffs come off. If I'm absolutely miserable at work or if we have an opportunity of a lifetime to go do something that would prohibit continued employment I don't mind walking away from more $$.

I've avoided posting exact $#'s in here for several reasons, but do want to share that we hit a significant milestone this year (second comma) which we've seen come and go several times over the past few months. If it sticks we're in a really great place financially to do just about anything we want with our remaining life energy.
Last edited by 2Birds1Stone on Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

Random Thoughts

I've had a bit of imposter syndrome with regards to ERE and the forums over the past year. Found myself reading but not actively participating because I went back to FT work and a high income after our last stint of unemployed nomadic life. With the career came some of the trappings of middle class suburban lifestyle, and the feeling that I've strayed off the path that was leading to an interesting and fulfilling life. While the work has been fairly easy and stress free, coupled with excellent compensation, I feel repulsed by how much autonomy has been traded for more $, which we may or may not need in the future. Even when you're only "working" a couple of hours a day, having the employer hooked into your mobile and brain 16 hours a day prevents the feeling of pure freedom that existed prior to returning to work.

When the Covid-19 shit was hitting the fan in Sept/Oct of 2020 and we were in Poland, we told ourselves that we would go back to work for 1-2 more years and resume our adventure as soon as possible. Well that opportunity came and went, and since then we've had a lot happen in our lives, the geopolitical situation, and now economy.......yet none of this is actually preventing us from taking the leap again. It's simply fear, fear of letting go of the comfortable and predictable life we slowly reacclimated to. Inflation, recession, war, pandemic/endemic restrictions on movement and freedom, all of these are things to be aware of, but why let them control our actions to such a large degree?

Luckily, despite DW and I's return to white collar careers, we haven't made any profound commitments or decisions that would complicate getting up and going at a moments notice. We rent a small apartment with a month to month lease, drive the same $1k beater we acquired upon our return to the USA, have less possessions than we did before we left in early 2020, and have more experience and social capital to draw on then ever before. So what's holding us back? Right now it appears to be inertia......the $$ is easy, it pacifies us, dulls our sense of adventure, provides a "hammer and nail" solution to any foreseeable problems in the future......yet it's taking away our most precious resource, time.

So with these deep thoughts, I am recommitting to breaking the shackles of wage slavery, for this prison is one of our own creation.

Scott 2
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by Scott 2 »

Funny how on this forum, the financial milestone passes with a "meh". Congrats, not many people see that.

Does it have to be fear that's keeping you employed? Not working also carries constraints. Living on your wits can be a pain in the ass.

Now that the high of "nobody can tell me what to do!" has passed, I'm becoming agnostic towards the two paths. The obligation of full time work does take autonomy, but it gives more than money - status, belonging, structure, power, etc.

Maybe coupled with those additional benefits, the lifestyle can be good at times? Since I arrived at the white collar path by default, it was easy to dismiss the benefits as shackles. Having set them aside, I am less convinced.

take2
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by take2 »

I’ve come to a similar position as @Scott2. I haven’t updated my journal in a long time, but have been moving away from the desire to cut the shackles and escape Plato’s Cave. Some of that may be having had a kid and thinking even longer term than I usually do, but some of it has also been a shift in mindset to stop viewing my working life as a temporary stop gap towards “freedom”.

This may be a lack of having a “freedom to” in the way that I think @2B1S already has (or has more of at least). But ultimately I’m beginning to shape my view of the world that even the “shackles of Plato’s Cave” are my own creation. Nothing really stops me from living the life I want whilst still making money. Perhaps some of this is an improvement at work, and some of it is a step change from being affected of how work goes.

I do still think that I will end my career much sooner than most, but now thinking that another 5 or so years brings a lot more benefits than drawbacks, with the benefits including more than just financial capital. It’s always hard to say whether I’m convincing myself ala Stockholm Syndrome or just realising that making comparisons/pretending that I’m “a wage slave” is simply so far beyond hyperbole it’s laughable considering how great my life is.

I suppose I’m starting to acknowledge that my mindset has been the problem in fulfilling what I want, and I’m just using the excuse of the job as a crutch. I no longer think removing it will materially improve my life, and instead realising it will bring drawbacks that I haven’t fully considered.

Anyway this isn’t my journal and I don’t want to detract from what you’re aiming for @2B1S. I’ve always admired your skill set in that even if you decide to come back, a good salesman is always needed. That coupled with the decision not to procreate means you can’t really go wrong in whatever you decide.

Best of luck, and continue to live life to the fullest. That’s all that matters in the end.

shaz
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by shaz »

If you want to make a change and the main thing holding you back is inertia, perhaps it would help to set a deadline? Setting a deadline takes less effort than doing the thing but once you have the deadline it can help to overcome inertia.

Scott 2
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by Scott 2 »

Some benefits of full time employment are harder to appreciate. Money is cool, but a successful career also creates leverage. You have powerful connections. The years invested in work develop your ability to make an impact.

Recently, I looked at who fills the board of directors, in various charitable organizations near me. Almost invariably, the members have high degrees of professional achievement. They are either established people leaders (managing directors, vice presidents) or accomplished individual contributors (lawyers, accountants, doctors, etc). The more impactful the group, the more senior the board members.

Maybe it's status seeking people accumulating more prestige, but I think charities seek those individuals. People are on the board because they can make an outsized impact on the cause. A managing director brings money. A lawyer legal services. Their peers offer the same.

An unskilled retiree who walks dogs at the animal shelter - it's a different scale.


Not to discourage a new path. But, I think it's worth acknowledging the full time work offers more than safety or money. Taking it doesn't make you an ERE imposter. Some things can only be accomplished in more rigid structures.

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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by AxelHeyst »

2b1s - I think your rededication to the life and freedom you want is inspiring. I think it does take a rare individual to embrace the uncertainties and drawbacks of unconventional freedom and live a better life as he defines it on the other side, but my sense is that you and your DW are just the folks for the job. I'm interested in your thought processes and actions for the transition - please do update here more.

shaz
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by shaz »

A successful career also can result in a much more rewarding job over time as you gain autonomy and the freedom to put your energy into things that interest you. The problem is most people have to slog through a lot of unpleasant hours days weeks years to get there so if you can escape the whole horrible early and middle slog then heck yes do it. But the decision becomes more difficult once you get to the top levels, for reasons other than just money. I don't think it is a failure if you find you are doing something you don't want to walk away from.

Western Red Cedar
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by Western Red Cedar »

Congratulations on the financial milestone. That is a major success for someone your age. Congratulations as well for recommitting to a different path. @Scott2 and @take2 bring up valid points, but it seems to me a dominant thread of your journal is a desire for exploration and adventure. You'll certainly be giving things up by leaving paid work, but you'll likely gain much more by doing so.

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Seppia
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by Seppia »

Sorry for being basic 2b1s, but I believe the only question you have to ask yourself is
Am I happy?
You are rich in the real sense of the term (= you have options) so there’s no need to care/think about what others think is cool (including the ERE forumites) unless impressing people is your goal.

I would guess you don’t care much about other peoples thoughts, but it’s been my goal to impress people many times in my life and I dont think it’s necessarily bad.
We are a social species, and outside of a few outliers what “the others” think often matters a lot.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

Appreciate everyone's thoughts and the discussion here. Please don't feel like you're hijacking the journal, feedback is one of the greatest gifts of all and one of the best things about this community.

Going to try to respond to your posts individually over the next day or two.
Scott 2 wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:36 am
Funny how on this forum, the financial milestone passes with a "meh". Congrats, not many people see that.

Maybe coupled with those additional benefits, the lifestyle can be good at times?
Thanks for chiming in, Scott. We got a nice test run during a 13 month period prior/during Covid-19 and I didn't miss most aspects of work. Being someone who never relied on work/career for most of my socializing and status seeking definitely helped. It's been almost 5 years now since I more or less decided to play the career game in a way that lets me fly under the radar and only put in bursts of effort when the reward warrants it (which is rare). When things were turning really bad in the EU in autumn of 2020 and we had to come back to the USA for DW's medical/workers comp debacle, returning to work felt like the right thing to do. Not because we missed it, but because we needed health insurance, and our stache was dwindling quickly.

I don't want to dismiss all types of work. There is much to be said about finding something that's not all consuming to do where you receive many of the non-monetary benefits you outline, but I don't think that full time, white collar knowledge work is the right answer for me/us. Ideally I would love to do something eventually that doesn't have me sitting in front of a computer screen and on zoom calls most of the time. Nor do I particularly care about selling a product or service to Fortune 1000 corporations. These transient relationships and transactional interactions with other humans don't quite do it for me. Looking back on all of the jobs I've had, the most enjoyable was probably running a health and wellness store where I got to talk health, nutrition, and training with my customers on a daily basis. Getting to the point of management meant I had a whole boatload of other responsibilities and headaches, but working a job like that 2-3 days a week as an employee was fantastic. Not needing the money would make it even better.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

take2 wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:06 pm
I haven’t updated my journal in a long time, but have been moving away from the desire to cut the shackles and escape Plato’s Cave. Some of that may be having had a kid and thinking even longer term than I usually do, but some of it has also been a shift in mindset to stop viewing my working life as a temporary stop gap towards “freedom”.

This may be a lack of having a “freedom to” in the way that I think @2B1S already has (or has more of at least). But ultimately I’m beginning to shape my view of the world that even the “shackles of Plato’s Cave” are my own creation. Nothing really stops me from living the life I want whilst still making money. Perhaps some of this is an improvement at work, and some of it is a step change from being affected of how work goes.
Hello, old friend!

Please do update that journal of yours. Went back to re-read your posts from September 2021 before responding here and curious how things panned out with the "life outside of work" focus you were attempting to make. My understanding is that you were/are already FI and at or below a 3% WR a few years ago. Assuming you've been earning and lifestyle cost hasn't ballooned too much in the past 6-12 months you're FI by any reasonable measure. Choosing to work vs. having to work definitely has it's advantages. I too feel much different working now and knowing that it's icing on the already well baked cake vs. having to accumulate out of perceived necessity.

Figuring out your "freedom to" should be your top priority imho. Having experienced life (albeit briefly) without the mental and emotional constraints of having a paying overlord, I can say it's indescribable until you experience it. If your work situation (and your DW's) has improved to the point where this is the ideal life you would live even if they weren't paying you, then congratulations! Having a child definitely puts things into a different perspective, but don't use that as another reason to move your goal posts. You shared some really cool/inspiring ideas about what life could look like for you if you were to either completely leave work or find something to downshift to in PT last year. Curious as to why you shifted away from that.

As far as my own situation. Sales is a rollercoaster, and the highs can be really high, but the majority of time is spent facing pressure and rejection (at least in my industry). We've increased our net worth by roughly 50% since returning to work ~18 months ago, and it definitely feels like the right time to step off the rollercoaster and leave on a high note. You're absolutely right that returning to work will always be a possibility in the future. It's just that I would like to apply my passion and skills to "sell" something that I might actually care about. Enterprise software to Fortune 1000 companies is not a calling by any stretch, it was just the best option from a time for $$ standpoint for someone in my shoes.

Frugalchicos
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by Frugalchicos »

Congrats on your $$ milestone. I hope you feel free enough to explore and go for after all those dreamed adventures!!

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

shaz wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:18 pm
If you want to make a change and the main thing holding you back is inertia, perhaps it would help to set a deadline? Setting a deadline takes less effort than doing the thing but once you have the deadline it can help to overcome inertia.
Definitely food for thought. We have a deadline/milestones, but the itch to move them up is what's eating at me. We stand to gain quite a bit monetarily by staying with out respective employers until our retirement vesting concludes. For both DW and I it's a cliff vesting on employer contributions where on X date you go from 0% vested to 100% vested. Hers happens this fall, mine on June 1 of next year. It's not a life changing amount, but not insignificant either. Couple that with the salary between now and then, and we're talking some serious $$. To add insult to injury, every month we work, that # increases significantly at the very end. I just don't know if we can/should hack it another 5.5 and 11.5 months respectively. In the grand scheme of things it's not *that* long, as we would still be in our early/mid 30's.

Hence for now we're just taking things in stride, trying to enjoy life as much as possible and not let our jobs dictate our lives. It's going well so far, but the writing is on the wall that things may change wrt work and our timeline could accelerate.
Scott 2 wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 6:57 pm
Not to discourage a new path. But, I think it's worth acknowledging the full time work offers more than safety or money. Taking it doesn't make you an ERE imposter. Some things can only be accomplished in more rigid structures.
You bring up great points and I don't disagree at all. The thing is, I could personally care less about prestige or sitting on the board of some snooty foundation or charity with other white collar overachievers. Brownnosing and politicking have never been my jam. I would rather create my own thing than try to climb to the top of someone else's. There's also a myriad of possibilities between animal shelter dog walker and 501c board member. Work has always been about the paycheck for me. I've never aspired beyond being a highly compensated IC, despite being pushed towards leadership due to my own brand and natural skillset.

Another thing to think about, just because someone retires early doesn't make them unskilled. I'm sure some of the tools in my shed may dull over time, but the things that made me successful in my career aren't just going to disappear. If anything, I can see using them towards things I'm passionate about in the future being a very resilient part of my individual strategy.
AxelHeyst wrote:
Sat Jun 04, 2022 12:13 am
2b1s - I think your rededication to the life and freedom you want is inspiring. I think it does take a rare individual to embrace the uncertainties and drawbacks of unconventional freedom and live a better life as he defines it on the other side, but my sense is that you and your DW are just the folks for the job. I'm interested in your thought processes and actions for the transition - please do update here more.
Tickled pink that anything I've written here is inspiring to a bonafide BAMF such as yourself, but I'll take it! Our last foray into alternative lifestyle was definitely a good litmus test to how we would handle unconventional living. DW and I mostly thrived, but if I remember correctly we did feel a lack of purpose and connection after a while......that could have been Covid preventing most in-person human to human interaction and non-work opportunities being muted as a result.

Will definitely keep everyone here abreast of our plans, goals, thoughts, and actions to get over to the other side.

Still need to digest and introspect on some of the later feedback here, appreciate the conversation.

Musings
Frugalchicos wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:42 am
Congrats on your $$ milestone. I hope you feel free enough to explore and go for after all those dreamed adventures!!
Thanks!

We took a step in the right direction and booked flights to spend a month in Poland from mid-August to mid-September. I've felt homesick lately and it will be nearly two years since we've seen many of our friends and family on that side of the pond.

We have some shorter trips planned starting with a road trip next weekend to visit family and friends, our first "vacation" to a tropical place in July.

Between those three, that gets us to autumn here in NY, which is my favorite time of the year for hiking, MTB, and most outdoor activities.

From there we work on downsizing our live into a car and hitting the road to FL for the winter, getting rid of our permanent residence in the process.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Semi-ERE Year 4 - Wanderlust Prevails

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

Western Red Cedar wrote:
Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:46 pm
Congratulations on the financial milestone. That is a major success for someone your age. Congratulations as well for recommitting to a different path. @Scott2 and @take2 bring up valid points, but it seems to me a dominant thread of your journal is a desire for exploration and adventure. You'll certainly be giving things up by leaving paid work, but you'll likely gain much more by doing so.
Thanks, WRC. We've been wanderlustin' for the past decade and while we had some opportunities to scratch the itch, it's nothing like what we envisioned without the constraints of FT employment. It very well could end up that we get this out of our system over the next X years and when we are ready to root down somewhere we find something more fulfilling to do that creates value and as a second or third order income. I would be surprised if we manage to go another 3-4 decades without making money somehow......

I think a lot of people tie much of their identity to their careers. This was never the case for me. It's been a "variety is the spice of life" approach for me for the past 20 years since I began working FT. I liked most of my jobs at some point, when it was time to move on, I moved on and never had an issue reestablishing myself. Some of the most fascinating people I've met in my life, who served as an inspiration of what is possible were polymaths who didn't have any care for climbing a ladder/pyramid or what others thought of them.
Seppia wrote:
Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:18 pm
Sorry for being basic 2b1s, but I believe the only question you have to ask yourself is
Am I happy?
You are rich in the real sense of the term (= you have options) so there’s no need to care/think about what others think is cool (including the ERE forumites) unless impressing people is your goal.

I would guess you don’t care much about other peoples thoughts, but it’s been my goal to impress people many times in my life and I dont think it’s necessarily bad.
We are a social species, and outside of a few outliers what “the others” think often matters a lot.
Appreciate your perspective. I would say that happiness is hard to define and often eludes us. I am content and grateful, with a growing sense of wonder and need for exploration. It's not lost on me how lucky DW and I are.

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