Nomadic-ERE Year 5 - Wanderlust Prevails

[jacob]

Thanks, jacob. I always found journals from both sides of FIRE very fascinating and helpful. My "imposter syndrome" may have something to do with all of these nuanced conversations delving into SD, stack theory, etc etc just flying over my lizard brain at times.......so I just sit quietly in my little corner here. It's good to shut up and listen though, that's how we learn best at times.

It's probably worth thinking about how the math used to be and look very theoretical with equations, maps, and diagrams, before everybody settled on "the simple" version. As far as freedom-to, we're still very much in the exploration phase. Not in the freedom-to equivalent of the freedom-from achievement of the still popular 4% rule.

Whereas freedom-from is mostly about whether it's financially viable, freedom-to is mostly about whether it's meaningful to actually do it.

[zbigi]

You can get very simple accommodation here for $10-20/night, but we choose places for $30-50/night because we enjoy having access to a pool and/or gym in a more centrally located part of town. Does spending 3-5X what we need to align with ERE philosophy? Idk, but sometimes I feel like a fraud.

I'm not sure even $10/night alings with ERE. The way I understand it, in ERE, you don't ever pay for things which give you pleasure (defined broadly - also includes things which satisfy your curiosity, expand your horizons etc.). Instead, you achieve level of competency required for the thing you want to be free, or even pay YOU. Which works well if what gives you pleasure is fixing watches or doing other people's taxes - and less well if you're like most people, and you mainly enjoy consumable experiences, such as travel, scuba diving, video games etc. I would be surprised if there are 10 frequent posters on this forum who are actually ERE. The rest of us is just leanFIRE.

[Laura Ingalls]

@zbigi

I think you are confusing being able to do something at a high(er) Wheaten level with wanting to do everything at that level all the time.

I can grind local wheat into sourdough bread. I know how and have done it in the past. It’s fun and enjoyable to me. Doesn’t mean I am going to bother with it while traveling.

I think the distinction between ERE and lean FIRE is really but that trying too hard but more of a Venn diagram not a sharp line.

[Scott 2]

I enjoy the updates as well. I think the super lean FIRE to Work to FIRE path will prove a common pattern. It's good to see how you manage the transition into higher consumption slow travel.

[jacob]

I'm not sure even $10/night alings with ERE. The way I understand it, in ERE, you don't ever pay for things which give you pleasure (defined broadly - also includes things which satisfy your curiosity, expand your horizons etc.). Instead, you achieve level of competency required for the thing you want to be free, or even pay YOU. Which works well if what gives you pleasure is fixing watches or doing other people's taxes - and less well if you're like most people, and you mainly enjoy consumable experiences, such as travel, scuba diving, video games etc. I would be surprised if there are 10 frequent posters on this forum who are actually ERE. The rest of us is just leanFIRE.

ERE is more the realization that there are often more ways to get things than simply paying for them. For example, during my last trip to Europe, I stayed in different places with family, friends, colleagues and transported ourselves around in different ways too (car, bus, train, walk). A conventional strategy would just have been to book a hotel or airbnb for the full stay while renting a car. The process of getting to the point of no longer thinking one-dimensionally in terms of money (can afford, can't afford, won't afford) often goes through a period where all the other dimensions (usually referred to as capitals or skills) are brought up to a level where one at least doesn't have to pay for it. But the point is not to eliminate the money-channel. Sometimes money is the most efficient. LeanFIRE is mostly for those who'd rather do without than having to learn new things. It's more for those who are inclined towards a minimalistic version of voluntary simplicity.

[2Birds1Stone]

Xin chào từ Hội An

Or Hello from Hoi An for those of us (myself included) who don't speak Vietnamese.

I'm looking at this as a period of exploration and learning. Exploring the external world, especially one that fascinates me but until now didn't have the time or resources to experience firsthand....but even more importantly exploring internally. Travel grounds me, as much of an oxymoron that may sound like. There's something about being in the moment and experiencing the world intensely that comes back full circle to a sense of knowing self.

Sure, right now we're traveling in a consumptive manner, paying for accommodation, having other people cook for us, even splurging on a weekly massage! Geographical arbitrage makes this possible on unfathomable sums of money. I see nothing wrong with this. It's not going to stay this way, and we'll be back to our usual style of house/pet sitting, bartering vs. paying for things, and other creative ways of accomplishing what we want.

I guess there comes a point where money is a largely solved problem and one becomes more lax with how they spend it. We're somewhat in this camp right now.......but it's by design that we find ourselves in parts of the world were our relatively lean budget goes a loooooong way by western standards.

DW and I enjoy roughing it, which is why come July, we'll be living out of a van/tent, learning new skills, and getting more comfortable being uncomfortable. Balance is key IMHO, you appreciate sleeping in a tent a little more after spending some time in a 5* hotel, and visa versa.

Back to Vietnam......what a place! The central coast where we're staying is one of my favorite beach destinations we've been to. The water is warm, the sand is fine, relatively clean and with one of the best food/coffee cultures anywhere in the world.

Icing on the cake has been getting to spend the better part of the past week hanging out with WRC and even getting to meet up with our very own C40. We've made the decision to stay in this area through the end of the month. Would love to explore inland, likely by motorcycle.....which we'll have to rent since I'm not renaissance enough to build my own

PS: enjoying the philosophical discussion on leanFIRE vs. ERE........I think our happy medium is somewhere in the middle.

[Western Red Cedar]

Back to Vietnam......what a place! The central coast where we're staying is one of my favorite beach destinations we've been to. The water is warm, the sand is fine, relatively clean and with one of the best food/coffee cultures anywhere in the world.

Icing on the cake has been getting to spend the better part of the past week hanging out with WRC and even getting to meet up with our very own C40. We've made the decision to stay in this area through the end of the month.

It has been a blast! I doubled my IRL ERE connections in the last week. I really enjoyed getting to know you over the course of ten days rather than the course of a few hours.

For those following along, I got expert advice on lifting techniques and supplementing my existing workout routine. We had the opportunity to discuss all things ERE, travel hacking, recommended destinations, nomadic lifestyles, and the transition from buildup to withdrawal phase (roth conversions, varied spending phases, asset allocation, ACA subsidies, etc.). This was great for me considering I'm only two months out of my traditional career right now.

Not to mention bike rides through rice paddies, coffee classes, art galleries, temples, beaches, bakeries, cafes, history lessons, and walkabouts through meandering Vietnamese alleys. The $1 Bahn Mi's and Vietnamese coffee provided fuel for all the adventures.

Retired life isn't too shabby. I could get used to it.

[ertyu]

Sounds great, loving this. So far from your travels, what SEA country seems best to settle down in? This question is for C40, 2B1S and WRC, but also anyone else who has experience and opinions.

[2Birds1Stone]

I really enjoyed getting to know you over the course of ten days rather than the course of a few hours.

The feeling is mutual, what a blast!

It's really cool to hang and get to know people that you've been following online for a while. Especially since I've been trying to push you to take the plunge for quite a while

I hope our paths cross again.

@ertyu, I am not equipped to answer this after less than two months in the region, but I can tell you that after spending a few weeks in central/coastal Vietnam it's an excellent destination. There seem to be some caveats/challenges with any country in SE Asia, unless you're loaded and closer to traditional retirement age.

[Western Red Cedar]

So far from your travels, what SEA country seems best to settle down in? This question is for C40, 2B1S and WRC, but also anyone else who has experience and opinions.

In short, the answer for me is Thailand. The people are some of the friendliest I've met anywhere in the world, and I really enjoy the culture. I plan on going back in June to explore the north.

To elaborate a bit on what @2B1S said, visas seem to be a major limiting factor in SEA Asia for long-term stays unless one is 50+ or willing to jump though some hoops (teach English for a work visa, study language or something else for an education visa, etc...). That situation is constantly changing though. Vietnam just allowed for a 3-month E Visa last fall, and more countries are looking into digital nomad visas, as nomads tend to pump a lot of money into the local economy.

Weather, air quality, and precipitation also affect quality of life, so it makes sense to stay somewhat mobile in my opinion, rather than sticking to a single home base. Fortunately, costs are low enough that it is possible to do that while maintaining a home base if one prefers that option.

[2Birds1Stone]

Today we went to a meetup through an online nomad group DW and I have been part of for a year, we met a couple who is doing the dance between Chiang Mai and central Vietnam. It's a bit of a hassle but costs are super low if you commit to longer term rentals. They are renting a studio apartment that's 7 minutes by scooter/car from the main part of Chiang Mai for a whooping $100/month on a 6 month lease. Their current apartment in the city we're in is $200/month for a 3 month lease (it's a serviced apartment with housekeeping once a week).

The costs do not compute to most people from the west. These are places you find through local RE websites/FB groups and not readily available on platforms like AirBnB/Booking.com etc.

The costs can also vary astronomically based on how you like to live, eat and spend your time. If you're eating mostly local food, using a bike or public transit, and spending your time doing free/cheap activities, you can easily live here very well for <$1k/month for two people. If you add in massages, western food, take taxis, shop for imported goods, it gets really hard to stick to that sort of budget.

[ertyu]

Thank you all for answering

These are places you find through local RE websites/FB groups and not readily available on platforms like AirBnB/Booking.com etc.

This is important info. Would you mind sharing some of these websites and groups over DM? With uni teaching, I have long vacations and I've been thinking of using them to explore.

[2Birds1Stone]

Just search "cheap housing/apartments for rent in ______" on Facebook (fill in blank with city or region of interest) and list some criteria like dates, budget etc in your "looking for" posts and you will get plenty of solicitations. I would look at places in person before committing to anything sight unseen. There's no one be all group globally, it's highly regional.

[2Birds1Stone]

Musings

Greetings friends. This time from Ubud, Bali in Indonesia.

We're staying in a guesthouse here in relative luxury for $30/night in a room with aircon, a bug net, balcony, access to a small dipping pool and the most delicious breakfast we've had in a while included in the price. The owner cooks to order every morning, and we've tried just about everything he makes. You get to choose one entree, one fresh juice and one hot beverage (or iced).

Bali is a mixed bag for me. Culturally rich, with beautiful temples and architecture, mostly friendly people, and a lot of wonderful nature and green space.......it's popularity due to social media is becoming it's downfall. The island is not equipped to handle the number of tourists who come here every year, nor the service industries built around them.....mainly the taxi mafia which uses minibuses/vans to shuttle people around at exorbitant prices. Riding elephants is something every tour agency is still pushing, and most of the "attractions" involve long multi hour queues for your turn to take an instagram worthy photo. There are no sidewalks, the streets are very narrow, and there is rubbish everywhere.

The food is quite good, and fairly cheap by western standards. The coffee culture is terrible compared to Thailand, Malaysia and especially Viet Nam. We did take an amazing cooking class, went for a few hikes, spent time visiting the temples.......and seen everything we more or less want to.

This is definitely a "one and done" for us........while Viet Nam, Thailand and Malaysia are all places we're making a trip back to.

Speaking of trips back......DW and I managed to snag one way flights back to Thailand from NY for early December.

That gives us a good timeline for the remainder of 2024, which sees us spending another <2 weeks in Bali, ~6 weeks in Italy, ~7 weeks in Poland, ~4 weeks in NY followed by the epic road trip to the PNW/Cali/Arizona/Utah/New Mexico and Texas starting in mid August and wrapping up at the end of October. We plan on spending ~3-4 weeks in FL visiting family and friends, followed by another ~2-3 weeks in NY with family and friends before flying back to SE Asia, where the plan is to spend ~2 months in Thailand and ~3 months in Viet Nam through next April.

Through a bit of serendipity, we've managed to find a mutually beneficial house/pet sit in central Italy as well as an opportunity to stay on a beautiful lake in the north of the country at the property of a well known ERE'r.

Money

On the finances side of things, all good here. Looks like the market found a top, as the saying goes......we take the stairs up and the elevator down, it will be interesting to see how things shake out with the fed continuing to attempt taming inflation while most industries are in cost cutting mode and layoffs are real.

Our spending in March was insane by ERE standards, but it involved booking all of our flights for the remainder of 2024 along with some accommodation in Bali and Italy.

Knowing what we know about how we're spending the rest of 2024, I project we'll finish the year with a ~3% WR using actual spending vs. current portfolio values.....which means even if the market takes a 20-30% haircut, we're still sub 4%.

Parting Thoughts

Feeling very blessed to do what we do. DW and I are very excited to meet more of you peeps in the meatspace later this year.

[Western Red Cedar]

Thanks for the update. I'm curious how I'll experience Bali as it has been on the travel bucket list for a while. Based on your feedback, I worry it sounds like the equivalent of Phuket in Thailand, which doesn't really interest me. Nonetheless, the flights have been booked for a few months and we plan to make the most of it.

I hope you don't completely write off Indonesia. From what I've heard, there are a lot of other amazing spots that are a bit off the beaten path.

Rolf Potts spent a month on Sumatra a couple years ago and had great things to say about it on his podcast. I know there are some other backpacking/surfing/diving gems in the archipelago.

https://rolfpotts.com/travel-in-sumatra-is-cheap/

https://rolfpotts.com/playing-games-with-life-sumatra/

I'll be enjoying the delicious Vietnamese coffee for the both of us over the next few weeks until you get to Italy

[Seppia]

South Bali I agree is very touristy. I have heard it has gotten worse compared to when I was there.
The northern coast was a lot nicer and less massified, have you been there?
You are very close to one of the most beautiful resorts I have ever seen in my life
https://maps.app.goo.gl/gaoNjpjucCiDoHEN7?g_st=ic

[2Birds1Stone]

@WRC, it's actually growing on me the past few days. Maybe it was just such a shock due to how/where we spent the last couple of months? We've gotten into a nice routine here and now that I found a really gnarly dungeon to lift at my mental health has improved too.

I have a recommendation on what part of Ubud to stay in so you're mostly walkable and close to most of the things I imagine you'll want to be close to.

We definitely want to see Komodo National Park at some point, and DW really want to dive there. Lots and lots of sea turtles.....I'll give the Rolf Potts Sumatra episode(s) a listen.

Today we visited the infamous "Monkey Forest" and while it's touristy, spending two hours in there was cool as fuck. You got to see these primates interact with each other, as well as the visitors......and karma was going around in spades.....stupid people won stupid prizes. There's a medical clinic right outside the part specializing in rabies shots for a reason.

@Seppia, we haven't and likely won't on this trip. We planned two weeks based in Ubud and 4 nights at a nice resort (on points) in Nusa Dua......I guess we may just have to come back.

The problem is transportation, I don't want to rent a scooter here, and the taxis are annoying and traffic is just insane. It took 2+ hours to get from the airport to Ubud and we ended up walking the last 1.5K with all our bags because there was literal gridlock, like we moved 25 meters in 20 minutes.

Freedom To

Well, without even being super intentional about it, I realized that my main focus/skill acquisition for 2024 is going to be a combination of travel planning/execution and for the second half of the year.....learning some real backpacking/outdoors skills. Going to use the road trip out west to get out into the back country a bit and learn how to be uncomfortable in the elements. Thanks to this community and a few other friends, we're lucky enough to be getting some guidance and hand holding.

DW and I have done a TON of hiking. We enjoy being outdoors, and while we've car camped in the past, we have never slept in a tent on an overnight hiking trip. Looking forward to popping the cherry on that one. I also want to put together a decent kit for future adventures, which means we may focus our road trip gear up on slightly lighter weight stuff so that it's more conducive to future backpacking/bike packing adventures.

[2Birds1Stone]

Greetings from Italy!

We arrived a couple of days ago, after a quick shower/nap near the airport in Rome we took the train down to Gaeta where we've been for the past two days. It's a magical seaside village of ~20k people that has fairly prominent (~1,500M) mountains seemingly rising from the sea. The architecture is pleasing to the eye and the seafood even more pleasing the palate. Shoutout to @Seppia for the recommendation! This man knows his way around Italia

After reading @WRC's post about the downsides of nomadic life it hit me that almost exactly a week ago we celebrated our one year of being on the move. Time flies when you're having fun?

The past 12 months have been mostly incredible, we've lived in Spain, Portugal, Poland, two regions in the USA, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, Indonesia and now Italy........and for DW and I it's not getting old, the list of places we want to explore is only growing. There are some downsides sure, but they are vastly outweighed by the positives. Every day is a new adventure, we've met some incredible people, seen some amazing places and tasted cuisine that we otherwise wouldn't have dreamed of. There is growth through new experiences, time slows down, you're no longer on the treadmill of monotony and routine (though routine is important!).

DW and I have made a point to maintain a routine of going to bed and rising with the sun, exercising regularly and hitting the gym 3-4 times a week no matter where in the world we find ourselves, similarly we use our feet as our primary mode of transportation and looking back over the last 12 months I have taken 5 MILLION steps.

We have another five weeks left in Italy, and so far we've been blown away by the sample of experiences ahead.

The rest of our time on Bali was excellent. Nusa Dua was exactly what the doctor prescribed after the two weeks in Ubud.....lounging on the beach, eating at local warungs and soaking in the south pacific.....the heat was welcome as we arrived in Italy the temperatures are ~40-50 degrees cooler.

[delay]

DW and I have made a point to maintain a routine of going to bed and rising with the sun

Thanks for your blog update! Good to hear you enjoy travel, I've known people who had enough of travel after 3 weeks into a 3 month "around the world" sabbatical, and returned home

Rising with the sun sounds awesome. Do you need an alarm to rise with the sun, or does it come naturally?

[2Birds1Stone]

No alarm required for us, I typically wake up around 5-6 AM and am in bed before 9 PM. Being active during the days makes going to bed fairly early easy.....especially in places in the world closer to the equator where the days are relatively stable in length. It does get a bit more difficult and we don't follow the sun in Poland during the early part of summer for example, when the sun doesn't set till 9 PM and rises by 4 AM it just isn't feasible/necessary.