Nomadic-ERE Year 5 - Wanderlust Prevails

[2Birds1Stone]

Oct 1, 2023

NW = 50.8X TTM Spending
WR = 1.97%

Musings

Plans are slowly coming together for the next part of our adventure.....just waiting on a new premium credit card to arrive in the mail so we can purchase the flights and accommodation for SE Asia. This particular CC has a sign up bonus that's worth 4-8 nights of hotel stays (depending on the COL/part of the world).

I know there aren't too many travel hacking fans here, but it's a really good perk for being responsible with CC's and being able to put most of your spending on a card. We only open them strategically when we have planned large purchases.

DW and I have spent considerable time discussing plans for a road trip next summer/fall. We're going to be targeting leaving NY around the first week of August and heading to the PNW through Chicago, Minnesota, North Dakota and Montana. Going to take our sweet time exploring PWN and Cali, then working through NV/AZ/NM after ERE Fest '24.

I'm really looking forward to meeting ERE friends in the meatspace. So far I've only met J+G from these forums, but over a dozen peeps from over on MMM over the years.

We're currently carless, so I'm trying to figure out the best approach to acquiring a vehicle for said road trip.....debating between vans, company cars, small trailer (ie teardrop) and light truck, etc. None of these are very ERE approaches......but we have time to figure it out. When you don't have regular housing costs, the vehicle providing transportation and shelter makes more sense.

[2Birds1Stone]

Markets getting hammered to start Q4.....specifically SCV which we're tilted towards......oooof.

Our IHG card arrived and we purchased our flights to Thailand. @WRC, we'll officially be in Bangkok starting the first weekend in Feb. One of DW's bucket list items is getting scuba certified and learning how to dive, looks like our first stop after 5-7 days of getting over jetlag and acclimating will be Koh Tao. DW is going to do a PADI open water course, while I take a refresher course and do a dive or two. It's been ~20 years since I went through the OW and AOW diver courses and nearly as many years since I've been down with equipment.

We also know we want to spend a month in Bali sometime towards end of March through end of April, so we booked a guesthouse in Ubud for April 1-15..that leaves a lot of time between when we get to Thailand and when we need to be in Ubud. If any other ERE peeps plan on being in SE Asia this winter, PM me or drop a line here.

[2Birds1Stone]

Nov 1, 2023

NW = 50.0X TTM Spending
WR = 2.00%

Musings

Back in USA for now. Still surreal after 6 months in Europe.

[Western Red Cedar]

Still surreal after 6 months in Europe.

Care to elaborate? Inquiring minds want to know.

[jacob]

Care to elaborate? Inquiring minds want to know.

Look up "reverse culture shock".

[2Birds1Stone]

Whoops.......it's been a while, huh?

@WRC, jacob hit the nail on the head. Going from smaller cities/villages, with narrow roads, kind/friendly people, small vehicles to NYC and the surrounding area is wild. Then you walk into a Walmart or Costco on a busy day before the holidays and....woah! It's a lot to take in and process.

Financially

We finished the year with a WR that was just a smidge below 2% or in other words, our NW is roughly 50x annual spending based on actual 2023 numbers.

As for most equity investors, the markets were kind and we saw our largest annual NW increase in nominal dollars, ever. This was despite only working for a fraction of the year.

Geographically

The USA visit has been going well, after five weeks in the NE we drove down to FL and are renting a room here with friends for two months. It's the same arrangement we had last year, where we trade below market rent in exchange for the occasional dog walk. Win-win for both side as we get along with these people quite well.

In a few short weeks we drive back north and take the extended journey over to Thailand.

The Meatspace

Excited to hang with our very own @Seppia next week. Then in a couple of months we're linking up with @WRC in SE Asia. Maybe we can get C40 to show us all the good coffee spots =D

Plans for 2024

We're going to be in Asia until around May 1st, after which it's either Japan or Italy.

Regardless of whether we head east or west.......our travels will bring us back to the USA towards the end of July in order to prepare for an epic cross country road trip from NY, to Chicago, PNW, down the coast of California, over to EREfest '24, followed by Arizona, Utah.....and depending on how cold it gets in November some other places in the SW.

Logistics for X-Country Adventure

We're really torn between using the old beater van we have now, springing for something like @Mountainfrugal has, or getting a small fiberglass camper and a tow vehicle. We're going to be living out of our setup from August through December.......so 4-5 months. That sounds like a long time to live out of a minivan, especially with two mountain bikes and camping gear in tow.

Definitely have time to figure this one out.

[2Birds1Stone]

Greetings from Bangkok!

January was a whirlwind with a cross country drive, spending a week with our nearest and dearest friends (and family), and final prep for the next nomadic leg of our adventure.

After ~30 hours of travel, major jet lag, some R&R here in our first accommodation we're finally starting to acclimate.

DW and I have been dreaming/planning to travel and explore this part of the world for the better part of a decade. Covid thwarted those plans in 2020, but alas, here we are! We're in BKK through the end of the week, after which we'll be spending the rest of the month island hoping, getting DW her diving certifications, and doing some scuba/snorkeling together.

Other than that, travel forces us to find joy in the simple activities of day to day life. Everything is an adventure when you don't speak the language or know the culture, and for now, that's enough to keep us very content.

[2Birds1Stone]

The Land of Smiles

Thailand left what I believe will be a lasting impression on us.

We're already planning our trip back for very early December, to make it to Chiang Mai for a month before the burning season.

DW is absolutely hooked on diving, if she doesn't end up getting it somewhere else between now and then, we're going to return to Koh Tao for ~2 weeks to give her time to get her PADI Advanced Open Water cert and just hang out. Koh Tao doesn't feel like "authentic" Thailand, as it's a hub for divers, hippies, and backpackers, with many of the dive schools/shops and hostels run by expats who have been on the island for decades. As a result there's a lot more western food and culture, BUT it's an incredibly laid back island with great vibes and we'll be back. In between Koh Tao and Koh Samui lies the island of Koh Phangan, which is famous for the "full moon" parties......not our thing, but looks beautiful and we may make a stop there next time. It's along the ferry route from flying in to Koh Samui and Koh Tao anyway.

Thai culture and the people are the main reason for wanting to see more of Thailand. The friendliness and respect is something we're not used to, coming from the USA.

I'm sort of glad we waited till we don't need to work to come here, as we may have been tempted to just shoestringFIRE here in 2019-2020 and ended up being slaves in a dive shop, working for tips and weed.

Kuala Lumpur

It's been a bit of a mixed bag so far. The city is awesome, very diverse with much more English heard.

It's mixed because 3 days before departing Phuket, I blew out my back doing deadlifts. All it took was a moment of inattention and form slipping. It wasn't even a super heavy set. I couldn't walk or sit for two days, made it through the airport on the third day thanks to wheelchair assistance and crutches.

Slowly been recovering, but it's limited our otherwise adventurous style of walking around exploring the nooks and crannies of a new destination.

Just as my back is recovering and I'm able to do some light walking without crutches, I caught a pretty nasty cold......I guess there's worse places to be stuck sick though.

We're here through the end of the week, after which we head to Vietnam......possibly a little ERE meetup action to take place.

Finances

We're still at a stupidly low <2% WR on assets. The markets been on a tear, and we're living in a cheap part of the world. Things are mostly on autopilot now.

I still struggle with the balance between the ERE ways and things like scuba diving.......it costs money, but at the end of the day, we're not going to not dive because it means spending over 1 JAFI per person.

I will also add, being fully FI was worth it. I still have no regrets about taking foot off gas the past 5+ years, extending our time to get to this point, but there's something amazing about not HAVING to make any $.

Be well my friends.

[delay]

We're still at a stupidly low <2% WR on assets. The markets been on a tear, and we're living in a cheap part of the world. Things are mostly on autopilot now.

Thanks for your journal update! So you manage live on 2% WR even while travelling the world? That must be really enjoyable.

Best wishes for your travels!

[2Birds1Stone]

Thanks for your journal update! So you manage live on 2% WR even while travelling the world? That must be really enjoyable.

Hey, delay. Thanks for popping in, it's nice to know someone's reading these sporadic updates. Sometimes I feel like I don't have too much to contribute here with my current trajectory.

Regarding the bolded question, more or less. Our expenses over the past decade have ebbed and flowed somewhat naturally. I project that a year from now, we'll be closer to a 3% WR. We don't budget or try to minimize things for the sake of minimizing any longer. I actually struggle with some of these choices we used to make philosophically.....

For example, here in SE Asia there is an abundance of food options. Unfortunately, we don't really have the ability to cook due to our accommodation choices in many situations. This means purchasing more food from warungs (local eateries), or going to a fancier supermarket if we want something like non-local fruit or cheese etc. These foods tend to be significantly more expensive here. Does spending $10 on fruit for the day align with ERE principles? Surely I can get the same calories and micronutrients by eating some rice/beans and taking a multivitamin.

You can get very simple accommodation here for $10-20/night, but we choose places for $30-50/night because we enjoy having access to a pool and/or gym in a more centrally located part of town. Does spending 3-5X what we need to align with ERE philosophy? Idk, but sometimes I feel like a fraud.

Health Update

Yesterday, I donated my crutches here in KL. Things are on the up and up with the back injury......the nasty cold I got on Saturday also seems to be passing.......fingers crossed that DW and I stay relatively healthy from here on out.

[Ego]

Nice. You sent me down another Thailand rabbit hole. We are going back on the next trip. Thanks!

Unfortunately, we don't really have the ability to cook due to our accommodation choices in many situations. This means purchasing more food from warungs (local eateries), or going to a fancier supermarket if we want something like non-local fruit or cheese etc. These foods tend to be significantly more expensive here. Does spending $10 on fruit for the day align with ERE principles? Surely I can get the same calories and micronutrients by eating some rice/beans and taking a multivitamin.

While the ingredients are fresh, they use that really cheap oil that we try to avoid. That's why we always carry a pot/stove/cookware. While cost is a factor, eating out every day for months is not fun or healthy.

Glad to hear you are healing.

[2Birds1Stone]

While the ingredients are fresh, they use that really cheap oil that we try to avoid. That's why we always carry a pot/stove/cookware. While cost is a factor, eating out every day for months is not fun or healthy.

We try to avoid the greasy stuff too. Our hack has been a lot of muesli/granola with soy milk, precut fruit, and just paying more when we do eat out for seemingly healthier options. For example, on Koh Tao there are many vegetarian/vegan restaurants serving delicious oatmeal/Acai bowls, salads, etc......but they cost 2-3x what local warung cuisine would. I'm at odds with these choices sometimes. Is my increased $ consumption really hurting the planet more for these choices?

Just some random thoughts from an internet stranger.

[Kipling]

(i) rest assured that many of us read and learn from these posts and also from the way your thoughts and habits develop over time. Please keep posting!

(ii) I don’t think you should feel bad about eating oatmeal and salad. It may not be the local cuisine but nor is it climate-destroying.

[Western Red Cedar]

Glad to hear that you are on the mend. DW and I have found Vietnamese food extremely fresh and much lighter than Thai food (which I love). There are also all kind of options for healthier choices here as well that won't break the bank. We've been averaging about $750 per person a month here with what feels like a very luxurious lifestyle. That includes regular sushi, poke, and bougie vegan food.

It feels a little strange to live so decadently, with all of our meals prepared, and still realize this was part of the ERE plan.

I'm at odds with these choices sometimes. Is my increased $ consumption really hurting the planet more for these choices?

Just some random thoughts from an internet stranger.

Guilt and shame around spending on these forums seems pretty high, which is unfortunate. I'm all for limited consumption and think the spending in mainstream FIRE circles is pretty ludicrous. But, I also don't think individual spending choices are going to move the needle much on environmental damage and climate change.

Nomad ERE is going to look and feel different than home-base ERE. The tough thing for me to manage philosophically are the flights.

[Laura Ingalls]

I find the food thing is always a bit of a dance. More kitchen, more cooking less cooking more meals out. We carry a French press, knife, and dollar store cutting board everywhere. I find I do better at weight maintenance traveling than being more stationary mostly because we stay where the weather is nice and we walk more.

[suomalainen]

Hey, delay. Thanks for popping in, it's nice to know someone's reading these sporadic updates. Sometimes I feel like I don't have too much to contribute here with my current trajectory.

Here I must vehemently (vehemently) disagree. So many people treat FIRE as the end, when in reality it is the beginning. Journaling the progress to the starting line is fine and can be helpful for others to read to help them know how to address a certain set of problems, but then FIRE people disappear right when the storytelling gets to be good! There's a whole new set of problems to be addressed, and your stories are a wonderful prompt to think about the other side of that FIRE journey. Thanks so much for staying plugged in and writing about this more interesting part - the post-FIRE life. I wish more people would stick around. It seems like the newest crop of FIREites have been doing that, for which I am very grateful.

[take2]

+1

Keep it up and enjoy! How is the back recovering? Do you have any lasting injuries?

[jacob]

Here I must vehemently (vehemently) disagree. So many people treat FIRE as the end, when in reality it is the beginning. Journaling the progress to the starting line is fine and can be helpful for others to read to help them know how to address a certain set of problems, but then FIRE people disappear right when the storytelling gets to be good! There's a whole new set of problems to be addressed, and your stories are a wonderful prompt to think about the other side of that FIRE journey. Thanks so much for staying plugged in and writing about this more interesting part - the post-FIRE life. I wish more people would stick around. It seems like the newest crop of FIREites have been doing that, for which I am very grateful.

I agree. Getting to FIRE used to be interesting because it was rare. Now the process of getting there is just following a proven trail step by step. Freedom-from is trivial now. What's interesting is what everybody does with their freedom-to once they have it. I understand that people with freedom-to may be too busy to share ... but still, there are many who'd like to know what's beyond the horizon.

[2Birds1Stone]

Thanks for chiming in with your $.02 folks.

@Kipling, I don't plan to stop posting. I guess it was just quiet here for a while (mostly my own fault), and it's nice to see others are getting something out of this. The OP certainly is, as I don't do any analog journaling (maybe I should start that too?)

Oatmeal and salad were just an example. Food is a category of focus for DW and I because after accommodation, it's our biggest expense. Here in SE Asia where housing can be really cheap, it might even be THE biggest expense. When we have a solid kitchen, and a typical western supermarket full of ingredients that we're familiar with, we cook really well and know how to make great tasting food on the cheap. Here, neither of those conditions are met.

It's something I sometimes questioned during the accumulation phase back in the USA too. Aside from the obvious ERE answer of (whole food, plant based diet), in our HCOL area it would be extremely expensive to eat high quality, locally sourced meat, produce etc.

This is an environmental community as much as a financial one (even more so these days) and I grok that the best rule of thumb metric for ecological footprint is spending per capita (head tax). So for example, if DW and I were to travel back in time 10 years, start shopping at local farmers markets, whole foods, etc. Our typical diet would have likely cost us 2-4X as much as the actual historical food spending, by shopping for these types of foods from these sources.

Does buying blueberries for $5/pint or ingredients for a single salad for two people for $20 mean our ecological footprint is that much larger than someone who shops for the cheapest ingredients at the Aldi's and Price Chopper supermarkets of the world? I remember when eggs in NY were $.65/dozen pre-covid, and local chicken owners were charing $5-6/dozen for their cage free eggs. That's a nearly 10X discrepancy in price where I wager the local ones are using less resources to make it from chicken into my belly.

What about other types of spending like accommodation or services? Is getting a nicer short/medium term rental in our current situation at a 2-3X higher price than necessary mean we're consuming more resources? What about getting a massage here for $10/hour? It's purely a "want" from a spending perspective.

All of these discretionary expenses add up to a lifestyle that doesn't exactly look like the ERE WL6/7 stuff that's touted as the holy grail.

Sorry for the ramble, my coffee hasn't kicked in yet.....

@WRC, I get that and feel the same way about the flights. I guess we take solace in the fact that besides the handful of annual flights, we're not driving cars, buying disposable plastic junk made from petrochemicals and doing our part in other ways.

@Laura, DW and I also lose weight while traveling. I chalk it off to not having a pantry full of snacks/eating more intentionally too. To be honest, we also find the food in Europe less processed and generally more wholesome, so less prone to overeating. SE Asia is a new frontier....

When we are roadtrippin' around the USA we always have our coffee grinder/french press/chef & pairing knives. I also learned to carry a knife sharpener.

@Suo, thanks for sharing that. In my recent experience, getting to FIRE was WAAAY easier than figuring things out after the fact. Everything from how to design your life, to how to actually use the assets you've accumulated in a way that both aligns with ones values and simultaneously ensures they last.....then the balance of everything......from self directed time, to motivation, etc. The paradox of choice is real.

Thanks, jacob. I always found journals from both sides of FIRE very fascinating and helpful. My "imposter syndrome" may have something to do with all of these nuanced conversations delving into SD, stack theory, etc etc just flying over my lizard brain at times.......so I just sit quietly in my little corner here. It's good to shut up and listen though, that's how we learn best at times.

[2Birds1Stone]

Do you have any lasting injuries?

I donated my crutches, so that's a sign of improvement.

Today I'm going to do some rehab work for the core/lower back and see how it feels. So far there's been significant daily improvement. From not being about to walk/sit, even shower the first few days, to hitting 15k steps yesterday exploring an Eco park in the middle of the city which involved quite a bit of stairs, so things are on the up and up. I guess time will tell, back injuries can be complicated.