IQ Test

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TopHatFox
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Re: IQ Test

Post by TopHatFox »

Now the Queendom Classical IQ test!

https://www.queendom.com/tests/access_p ... gTest=3108

I think I got 145 on it a few years ago. I liked that it was free, and sub-divided different parts of intelligence.

--------

High IQ is good, but I think ability to tolerate high-stress and high-IQ tasks for tens of hours for years is a better indicator for success. That and not blowing all your money...

zbigi
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Re: IQ Test

Post by zbigi »

TopHatFox wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 10:54 pm
good, but I think ability to tolerate high-stress and high-IQ tasks for tens of hours for years is a better indicator for success. That and not blowing all your money...
I believe that energy levels are also extremely important. Who cares if your as sharp as the other guy, if he can keep going 2-3 times longer than you. I've seen that - some people really are beasts.

TopHatFox
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Re: IQ Test

Post by TopHatFox »

Take the Queendom ;D

guitarplayer
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Re: IQ Test

Post by guitarplayer »

An article about why high IQ can make one less happy.

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Re: IQ Test

Post by jacob »

guitarplayer wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:32 am
An article about why high IQ can make one less happy.
Also see https://www.quora.com/What-do-people-wi ... srid=hVuud and https://earlyretirementextreme.com/demo ... y-gap.html

ETA: I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the MHC (see https://learning-theories.com/model-hie ... exity.html --- it's discussed extensively in Hanzi Freinacht's Nordic books). While IQ tends to correlate with where people end up on the MHC, it is not a given that high IQ => high MHC. Conversely, high MHC => high IQ. Methinks that the Hollingworth gap discussed above is not a gap in IQ as much as a gap in MHC. For example, if two people are both at MHC9.5, it doesn't matter for their ability to communicate and form perspectives that one thinks 50-100% faster than the other. Conversely, if one is MHC9 and the other is MHC12, the MHC9 guy will be unable to comprehend or simply misunderstand much of what the MHC12 person is trying to communicate because the MHC9 is simply blind to the added dimensions of complexity---they're not seen as such. Conversely, the MHC12 guy will find the interests of the MHC9 guy rather uninspiring. I believe this is closer to the problem Viljanen is describing in the quora link.
Viljanen wrote: Of course I can do small talk. Of course I can do customer service. Of course I can talk with people on the left half-plane of the Gaussian curve. Of course I can communicate with them and use language they understand. But that is not the point. The point is meaningful interaction. Those things are meaningless interaction. Or how many of you readers really take small talk seriously?

white belt
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Re: IQ Test

Post by white belt »

TopHatFox wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 10:54 pm
Now the Queendom Classical IQ test!

https://www.queendom.com/tests/access_p ... gTest=3108
I just took that one and scored a 127. It seems a bit high to me compared to another IQ test I took a few years ago as part of a psychological evaluation. I think I scored somewhere in the 115-120 range for that one.

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Re: IQ Test

Post by guitarplayer »

That Quora text is quite brutal! My takeaway is the links.

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Ego
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Re: IQ Test

Post by Ego »

jacob wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:18 am
Conversely, if one is MHC9 and the other is MHC12, the MHC9 guy will be unable to comprehend or simply misunderstand much of what the MHC12 person is trying to communicate because the MHC9 is simply blind to the added dimensions of complexity---they're not seen as such. Conversely, the MHC12 guy will find the interests of the MHC9 guy rather uninspiring. I believe this is closer to the problem Viljanen is describing in the quora link.

Viljanen also said:
Things could be tolerable, but when the communication range gap is large enough, the reaction of the less endowed is usually hostile. They perceive the more intelligent as threat and act accordingly.

To put it bluntly: it is not the dumbest who get bullied in the school. It is always the brightest who get bullied.
and
It is a public secret almost all top intelligent people are extremely lonely. And it is not about lacking in EQ, social skills or social graces, but the thrice goddamned communications range. It is also this reason why I am a heavy drinker. When plastered, I become dumber and my communication range moves toward left. Things normies like suddenly begin to make sense. I find it far more easier to socialize with normies drunk than sober.
I am no genius so grain of salt here, but it strikes me that bullies are cowards who go for low risk targets. Wouldn't a genius realize this and align with others to make themselves higher risk? The process of aligning with others may involve learning how to talk about professional wrestling. The genius may resent having to engage in nonmeaningful interactions about professional wrestling in same way that the protectors may resent having to engage in nonmeaningful interactions to protect the genius from the bully. Aligning interests usually involves negotiating. Give and take.

If the genius cannot figure out a way to bridge the communication range gap to make friends and allies then maybe they are not a genius? If they are unable to span the gap and connect with others to assuage their own loneliness without drinking themselves into a stupor, then maybe the problem isn't really with intelligence at all? Maybe the methods of measuring genius fails to incorporate pragmatism in the measurement?

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Re: IQ Test

Post by jacob »

Ego wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:51 am
I am no genius so grain of salt here, but it strikes me that bullies are cowards who go for low risk targets. Wouldn't a genius realize this and align with others to make themselves higher risk? The process of aligning with others may involve learning how to talk about professional wrestling. The genius may resent having to engage in nonmeaningful interactions about professional wrestling in same way that the protectors may resent having to engage in nonmeaningful interactions to protect the genius from the bully. Aligning interests usually involves negotiating. Give and take.
Smart as they are that's still expecting a lot from a child who is just learning [for the first time] how mean some humans can be. Intelligence is not a magic bullet that provides instantaneous answers. As such, the precocious kid is going to learn the hard way that some people are mean bastards to those who are different from themselves. This is something that people who are normal don't have to deal with. They just fit right in. Naturally, this process, especially if unrecognized [by teachers or parents] can lead to some "returned resentment".
Ego wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:51 am
If the genius cannot figure out a way to bridge the communication range gap to make friends and allies, then maybe they are not a genius? If they are unable to span the gap and connect with others to assuage their own loneliness without drinking themselves into a stupor, then maybe the problem isn't really with intelligence at all? Maybe the methods of measuring genius fails to incorporate pragmatism in the measurement?
That is not really the problem though. Consider how one-sided and widespread the presumption that "if you're so smart, it's all on you to figure out [how to make the connection]". It basically puts the entire burden on the high-IQ person. There's never any demand for those of average intelligence to "smarten up" or put in some effort on their own to meet the intelligent person half-way. Indeed, such expectations tend to cause resentment.

It's not about the the inability to make some level of connection. It's possible to make a reciprocated emotional connection with a pet dog or a random human. It's possible to perform small talk, pay a bill, discuss professional matters, or talk with the doctor about the importance of walking 10000 steps per day. It's possible to pragmatically solve for whatever is deemed a successful lifetime achievement by society in short order.

The main issue for highly intelligent people is that they rarely have an intellectual connection with someone who just "gets it" without them having to "dumb it down", "explain all the references", or continuously supply "scaffolding" in order to communicate what they're interested in. The reason they're lonely is that most of their interactions with other humans reduce to that. As a consequence, while they can "see" others, they are rarely if ever "seen" by others. This asymmetry is the cause of the loneliness. They're thinking about quantum field theory or whatever, but all their dog will ever understand is "sit" and "fetch"; most humans being somewhere in between.

chenda
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Re: IQ Test

Post by chenda »

I believe the military won't take anyone with an IQ of less than 80. Which excludes about 20% of the population.

How could we increase the average IQ of the species ? And would this be a desirable goal ?

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Ego
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Re: IQ Test

Post by Ego »

jacob wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:29 am
This is something that people who are normal don't have to deal with. They just fit right in.
Consider the possibility that you are misunderstanding the experiences of we non-geniuses. We are all learning as we go and at some point we all encounter mean people because mean people do not discriminate on the basis of intelligence alone. The non-genius learns at a slower pace, often has to relearn the same lesson repeatedly and sometimes never learns. So yeah, much of the cognitive burden is on the genius to use their intelligence in the same way that much of the burden of carrying a heavy load or defending the weak will default to the person who is physically stronger.
jacob wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:29 am
Naturally, this process, especially if unrecognized [by teachers or parents] can lead to some "returned resentment".
jacob wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:29 am
There's never any demand for those of average intelligence to "smarten up" or put in some effort on their own to meet the intelligent person half-way. Indeed, such expectations tend to cause resentment.
I don't believe that that resentment is entirely unfounded, but imagine the resentment of those @chenda mentions. They've got to learn not once but repeatedly the consequences of a low IQ.
chenda wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:49 am
I believe the military won't take anyone with an IQ of less than 80. Which excludes about 20% of the population.
-------
jacob wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:29 am
The main issue for highly intelligent people is that they rarely have an intellectual connection with someone who just "gets it" without them having to "dumb it down", "explain all the references", or continuously supply "scaffolding" in order to communicate what they're interested in. The reason they're lonely is that most of their interactions with other humans reduce to that. As a consequence, while they can "see" others, they are rarely if ever "seen" by others. This asymmetry is the cause of the loneliness.
Again, consider the possibility that we are all in a same boat with slightly different wants and need.

CS
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Re: IQ Test

Post by CS »

Communication breaks down (badly) at more than 1 standard deviation in intelligence away.

So a highly intelligent person (2 standard deviations away, which is the Mensa minimum requirement) has a good chance of communicating well with about 2-15% other people.
2%
Good luck finding those other apples. It is one of the reasons school gets better the higher one goes for those folks. Self-sorting.

If you are closer to the population mean, you get 60% of people you can easily connect with. That is a huge difference.

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Re: IQ Test

Post by jacob »

Ego wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:13 pm
Again, consider the possibility that we are all in a same boat with slightly different wants and need.
Ha! I can't leave this one alone, but ... that just isn't the case. One of the problems is that intelligence is only indirectly apparent by its effects. I'll try to remake my argument using physical strength. Lets imagine for a moment that you could not immediately tell if someone was strong by the size of their muscles. How would a strongman be limited in such a world?

In this world most gyms are equipped with slightly different weights up to 25lbs. The general sentiment of the typical gym goer or gym owner is that this is as heavy as anyone would ever need or possibly want. Therefore, the gym "obviously" provides plenty of variation for everybody. Heck, you can even get the dumbbells in different colors. Of course, this leaves the strongman rather unsatisfied because he is unable to get a good workout. No matter how hard he tries to "like" it, he's unable to get a good sweat or feel the burn. Silly exercises like doing 500 reps or tying multiple dumbbells together don't work well. Fortunately, the gym offers what they think is a brilliant solution to the problem: arm wrestling. This way the strongman can work out by armwrestling the other gym goers. However, he quickly learns that he has to hold back a lot lest he break the other people's arms or egos.

To the typical gym goer, there's something wrong with the strongman. Shouldn't he enjoy the fact that he can lift 25lbs with no problem? They simply can't see the problem because to them 25lbs is A LOT and creates a great workout.

The solution for the strongman is of course to make his own gym with heavier weights and stronger armwrestling partners.

This creates a second problem for the strongman which is what CS gave the numbers for. Not only is the entire gym-world manufacturing business designed around light weights (and lightweights). It's also really hard to find other strongmen---remember in this metaphor, you can't tell be looking at them. So basically, our guy has to armwrestle a lot of people and feel out who is capable of engaging in an actual wrestling match where nobody holds back. Only one in 50 will be as strong as he is. If he is really strong (a strongman's strongman), only one in 1000 will match him. He may not meet one for months or years insofar the other [hidden strongmen] attend at different times or go to a different gym. In contrast, the typical gym goer will be able to competitively wrestle 2 out 3 in the gym at any given time, so they obviously don't see the problem: Maybe the strongman is just bad at armwrestling since he doesn't seem to enjoy it so much?!

As such, it's understandable that this strongman's desire to attend regular gyms to wrestle another few dozen guys to maybe possibly find someone challenging is rather low. This is the cause of the frustration and potential loneliness as described in the links above.

The strongman is fundamentally on a very different and much smaller "boat".

A compounding factor is that while the average person tends to recognize the struggle of the sub-average as not only being "slower" but also "simpler", they don't acknowledge or see the struggle of the super-average, because they're only recognized as "faster" but not also "more complex". It is this complexity that makes for VERY different wants and needs. This leaves the super-average feeling constantly "unseen" or misunderstood adding points to the alienation.

Another way to imagine the predicament is insofar a person of average intelligence had accidentally been committed to an institution for the mentally disabled. The 100->70 equivalent of 130->100. They might rise to become "king" of the institution, but it would be a lonely and unrelatable experience. Also watch Idiocracy.

For example, a constant social demand on the more intelligent is to make their communication "simpler and shorter". Imagine being in an mentally challenged environment where everybody cut you off unless you kept your statements under 20 words and didn't exceed a 3rd grade reading level. Yes, human connections like "let's go watch TV" or "This chicken roast is soooo gooood" could still be made, but you'd also have to keep all those 20+ word ideas to yourself only relating them in simplistic ways like "I'm thinking about space rockets and math stuff." In other words, it would be like being a teacher in a class of 9 years olds and never being able to speak to another adult. This is not an unusual albeit temporary situation for a SAHM. Now imagine this being your entire life. Therein lies the source of this kind of unhappiness. Since the problem only affects 1-2% of the population and is considered somewhat of a luxury problem, it has mostly been ignored, but it seems like it is getting more attention now that people are more easily able to find each other on the internet.

7Wannabe5
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Re: IQ Test

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@jacob:

So, would you rather be locked into an institution with 20 assorted humans with IQ over 139 who do not necessarily “have their shit together”* OR 20 assorted humans with IQ over 100 who do “have their shit together?”

guitarplayer
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Re: IQ Test

Post by guitarplayer »

Not entirely sure how this is going to add to this thread but I had spent over 10,000 h in my life with quite a lot of folk who would (or in fact did), score 2SD and below the mode and preferred it to folk around the mode. One thing I have certainly learned from the former is how not to give a shit - found this liberating, brings a smile to my face just remembering some nugget moments, to the point I am thinking I might actually go back to it at some point.

I now only follow conventions minimally to allow me to get by.

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Ego
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Re: IQ Test

Post by Ego »

@Jacob, during covid you mentioned several times how happy you were that your regular life was basically unchanged under lockdown other than the bonus that you did not have to make excuses to get out of social commitments.
jacob wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:32 am
This leaves the super-average feeling constantly "unseen" or misunderstood adding points to the alienation.
I was under the impression that you believed that the set point of your neurotransmitter reward system (dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, acetylcholine) made you perfectly happy to be unseen and caused you to strive for alienation. To use your metaphor, I thought you had no interest whatsoever in arm wrestling regardless of the strength of your fellow wrestlers.

I could be wrong but I believe what you are saying above is different. You actually want to spend time with others but the people with whom you can connect in a meaningful way do not exist in sufficient numbers.

That begs the question, if you lived in a world where your IQ was average, would you be an extrovert?

guitarplayer
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Re: IQ Test

Post by guitarplayer »

Ha! This conclusion of @Ego hints at whether traits are fixed in people or not - I think many of the traits are not (and I think @Ego and I will agree here). Though for practical purposes might make sense to fix them sometimes.

Also, expanding the analogy from above, can be that same goes for being away from the middle on other dimensions, as in e.g. Gardner's multiple intelligences idea not to look far.

mathiverse
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Re: IQ Test

Post by mathiverse »

Ego wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:33 am
I was under the impression that you believed that the set point of your neurotransmitter reward system (dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, acetylcholine) made you perfectly happy to be unseen and caused you to strive for alienation. To use your metaphor, I thought you had no interest whatsoever in arm wrestling regardless of the strength of your fellow wrestlers.

I could be wrong but I believe what you are saying above is different. You actually want to spend time with others but the people with whom you can connect in a meaningful way do not exist in sufficient numbers.
This post from jacob addresses your questions somewhat.
jacob wrote:
Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:13 am
I think most (all?) people ultimately want to be seen/heard/understood, if nothing then at least by one other human, IOW, to establish an intersubjective experience.

The difficulty of this depends on how rare your subjective experience is AND how difficult it is to translate between your subjective experience and someone else's subjective experience to establish that intersubjective connection.

The first is a matter of numbers and interests. It depends of what kind of consciousness that has been installed in you. Size, width, depth, direction, ... (IQ, MBTI, and MHC give a measure. Ideally, the Venn diagram overlaps all three!)

The second is a matter of translation. For introverts, the primary processing mode is always introverted and so communicating anything with anyone always requires "translation" from the raw output of the brain to the speech, typing, art, song, etc. IOW, the co-driver is in charge of dealing with the external world. Cf. an extravert where the actual driver deals with the external world. (Basically, extraverts just route their thinking through other people as it happens rather than after it happens.)

However, the mental load put on the co-driver definitely depends on how easy that translation is. The easier it is the more "fluent" the connection. This depends on the compatibility (overlap) between the consciousness of the sender and receiver respectively, but also on a) how well the sender speaks; AND b) how well the receiver listens.

...

In practice this means that there's difference in charisma depending on the receiver(s). In the company of "normal people", I'm quiet and withdrawn. I simply have no interest and as such no developed skill in connecting with the usual insipid conversations (like who said what to whom) that normal people seem to enjoy. I practically treat people like furniture---I manage not to bump into them on my way out---and kinda hope they'll extend the same courtesy. Morning radio shows melt my brain. Conversely, at ERE meetups, I become social to the point of mingling and making sure to talk at least once to everyone. IOW, I can bump my "charisma" from a typical 6-7 to 13-14. Charisma, therefore, definitely does depend on the people around you. However, being "rare", I've kinda accepted that I'll never find "my people" beyond meeting them online.

Dave
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Re: IQ Test

Post by Dave »

Was wanting to take a break this afternoon and I took the Queendom. Scored 138...which I'm 99.9% certain is vastly inflated.

Gun to my head I would have guessed ~110-115 based on 34 years of calibrating myself compared to others. I think this range is more realistic.

I've never done a legitimate IQ test before, and my curiosity is piqued. Anyone have a recommendation of a free or fairly cheap, decent-quality IQ test available online? I know it's likely to have its limitations, but still curious.

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Re: IQ Test

Post by jacob »

Dave wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:41 pm
I've never done a legitimate IQ test before, and my curiosity is piqued. Anyone have a recommendation of a free or fairly cheap, decent-quality IQ test available online? I know it's likely to have its limitations, but still curious.
This is a decent and free g-factor test: https://mensa.dk/iqtest/

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