Slevin's journal

Where are you and where are you going?
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7Wannabe5
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Re: Slevin's journal

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

daylen wrote: In contrast, Ti already knows how it thinks and seeks to maintain internal consistency even if that means throwing off internal emotional balance. Fe then acts as a counter weight to that logical system or paradigm that will send up red flags if everyone around seems to be emotionally imbalanced from the implementation of that logic.
Ti users having the attitude of "if I were wrong it would only take one argument and that argument could come from a bumper sticker, a parrot, GPT-3, or a woo-woo guru half way across the world".
Yup! It has been my experience that you can venture pretty damn far out of bounds (Ne) with your logic (Ti) if you follow up quick with some hugs and cookies ( Low level Fe.)

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Slevin
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daylen wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:11 pm
Within the framework I favor, which tends to track quite well with the community surrounding cognitive functions:
This whole post of yours is super helpful for explaining how some of the intricacies of the cognitive stacks work together (though I think I still have a long way to go in understanding the subject, especially in cognitive stacks that aren't my own so I can't "grok" them intuitively). Question from this sentence, is there a book or some articles on the framework you favor that might be more helpful in understanding it?

daylen
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Re: Slevin's journal

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It is basically the wild west for personality. Anything other than big-5 aka OCEAN is discounted as not being empirical. Personality in academia goes as far as what a statistical measure can infer from question-answer text data. Clearly, there is something beyond this but social-experimental construction is hard.

I mixed and matched my own model from like 100+ micro-sources, the top three perhaps being:

1) Eric Strauss that hosts the YT channel Talking with Famous People. Though, this guy is an ENTP and sorting through his content for golden nuggets is a nightmare for most.

2) Michael Pierce's book Motes and Beams and YT channel. An INFJ with a very different and refreshing style from 1.

3) Engagement with people really.. like I said, it is the wild west out there for this kinda stuff. Especially when considering the integration with developmental psychology which is vital.

Dave
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Post by Dave »

I've really been enjoying your journal Slevin, especially the sharing of the meditation experiences. I've experienced a milder version of what you've described, and it's really quite wonderful.
jacob wrote:
Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:44 am
Scott2's explanation of duality vs non-duality is better (more compatible with my kind of thinking) than what I've seen from many a guru's writing. I'm really hoping that some day an NT will write up a guide to spiritualism complete with maps and diagrams. We already have enough 200 page long NF flow-state writings about the One becoming the Many while Ascending and Transcending...
I believe this has come up before, but just in case it hasn't or you haven't seen it the book Mastering the Core Teaching of the Buddha lays out a map of the traditional Theravada Buddhist four-stage enlightenment process, stripped of some of "mystical baggage". There certainly is some of it, and Daniel is a controversial figure in the pragmatic dharma community, but this may somewhat be what you're looking for. He admits to being map focused/obsessed.

This is a link to one of Daniel's web pages with (legally/allowed) free PDFs of the book: https://www.integrateddaniel.info/book

I am not familiar with all the personality type maps to know if this fits exactly what you're looking for, nor with Daniel Ingram's exact type, but I believe he was INFP or something similar, so this may line up a bit. Daniel is/was an MD so he presents an interesting combination of someone who is highly educated in western medicine and who claims to be highly spiritually developed.

Many folks, including myself, have found Daniel and his book very useful on their path.

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Slevin
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@daylen, thanks! Annoying that it is the Wild West, but that also means that it’s a whole new field to explore and discover (though precarious, as it’s a subjective soft field?). I think primers on types of meta cognition map to zone 0 changes as @7Wannabe5 said in another thread which can then map to some of the most profound ways to change yourself, and especially in regards to values systems, which then propagate down the line. It’s really hard to be a runaway consumer when your wants are self understanding and ability to help others reach the same, happiness through a spiritual practice that is mostly just about sitting and breathing (I guess you could pay a bunch of people to tell you to breathe and sit, and I’m sure that has its place), so I think it’s a valuable place to put your efforts (as I noticed you were questioning in your own journal).

@dave thank you immensely! I’m having a great time with exploring meditation as a form of spirituality myself, as one of my defining traits through a lot of my teen years was an atheistic / mechanist breakdown of the world into little scientific parts. I’m glad I can start building it back up as something that makes sense to me a little bit more, even if I practice a heavily secular version of it myself. I love book recommendations (my favorite form of information exchange), and I love that people in this forum keep recommending me enough interesting books that I don’t have to go seek out good ones myself (lots of noise per good signal)! It’s added to the list.

On a note about the meditation experiences, they’re a bit of a massive quandary, aren’t they? Or at least they were for me. Maybe like a little bit of a wake up call, that you just can’t sit and ignore, that maybe the things you were chasing externally are kind of missing the point, and there is just as much to be found in sitting and breathing as modern goals (chasing fame + fortune) or postmodern goals.

daylen
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Re: Slevin's journal

Post by daylen »

Slevin wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:59 am
Annoying that it is the Wild West, but that also means that it’s a whole new field to explore and discover (though precarious, as it’s a subjective soft field?
I think if nonduality is taken far enough, there is really no such thing as a purely subjective or objective field, or really even a pure subject or object. The softness just refers to the difficulty in bridging subject and object. The physical sciences are considered "hard" because in certain heavily controlled/constrained conditions, the degrees of freedom for the subject map one-to-one onto the degrees of freedom for the object and thus they become unified (e.g. as pixels on a screen or as aggregated blobs moving across a field). If the blobs vary with movement, the field inevitably multiplies/splits so as to be irreconcilable and thus "softened", aka becomes dominated by a stochastic variable in the "unified" equation (i.e. the degrees of freedom between subject and object diverge).

daylen
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In other words, perhaps the "goal" of sitting and breathing is to eventually rid all objects until there is only a "pure subject" that is then made object with the duality/nonduality equation of subject=object. Once there is only "one thing"(*) to fall back to, any situation/being can be unified no matter how fractured it becomes.

(*) Which is like having no things [and/or everything]..

Dave
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Post by Dave »

@Slevin

Can definitely relate to that view and evolution!

Haha, yes they are! I have come to think that even many things that I was chasing internally (not just the externals) are kind of missing the point. As you say, there is a lot to be found in just sitting and being. The insights are liberating but also rattling, as the foundation behind so much of life, even "higher" pursuits, can become less stable and seem meaningless, or perhaps less meaningful, relative to other realizations.

But it's all good :D.

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Slevin
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daylen wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:41 pm
In other words, perhaps the "goal" of sitting and breathing is to eventually rid all objects until there is only a "pure subject" that is then made object with the duality/nonduality equation of subject=object. Once there is only "one thing"(*) to fall back to, any situation/being can be unified no matter how fractured it becomes.

(*) Which is like having no things [and/or everything]..
Apt but maybe non-pragmatic (?) if you are implying you have to first become enlightened to then be able to solve hard problems, in line with the classic Sagan quote "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". If any of us makes it there, we will have to let the others know if they have more insight into solving problems with the stochastic mapping problem subjects ;) :) .

daylen
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Re: Slevin's journal

Post by daylen »

Na, the fractures provide springs of life which are simultaneously problematic and worth solving (or bathing in for a while). No enlightenment necessary. :)

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Slevin
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Slevin wrote:
Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:16 pm
Maybe there is an interesting thread in suggesting that lensic bias is a limiting factor to developmental growth, and by moving frames or lenses more often (abstraction or context growth of Chomskian idea to always read many news sources to encounter less information bias), is accomplished more easily in the Renaissance Ideal (multi-faceted definition of self through many "job" lenses, "hobby" lenses, "relationship" lenses, "academic" lenses, etc) provided you already have the capacity to define yourself through multiple lenses. Maybe it will grow the idea of lenses even if you don't have it? (Study / references needed)

Nordic Ideology suggests a six-sided definition to capital through talking about types of inequality, maybe this is a good starting point to start hedging where to start building these "skills". They might be "wrong" absolutely but I think the index is relatively "good enough" and broad enough to be useful. In the book they are suggested as "economic", "social", "physiological", "emotional", "ecological", and "Informational". So maybe the "less complex" explanation of the renaissance man can be someone who has a deep level of knowledge in one pursuit / skill in each of these categories (skills will be cross categorical by definition, but explicit details and kinks can be ironed out later). It may be that the most "value" is gained at a certain multiple of skills in one category, as they would eventually give you multilensic looks and understandings of the world from each type of lens. And it might be that the hexa- or dodeca- lensic bias might be enough to start scrubbing away much of the inherent built in single lensic (or lower dimensional lensic) bias of the embodied culture and allow one to operate / embody a more integrated life path. Given that time is a finite resource to humans, probably there is an upper limit on usefulness as well.
On the related topic of self definition, I also notice this is an issue that happens a lot when someone has just a couple ways they define themselves (self definition "modules" let's say). Resilience of the overall system of self is then linked to two factors, how many "modules" you have (I am a reader, I am a disc-golfer, I am a cat-dad, I am a philosopher, whatever you want), their relative importance to you, and ability to understand the underlying definitions of your self definitions.

For a breakup with an SO or a breakup with working (retiring a career, so to say), those are usually big self definition modules, and a lot of people lose themselves / go to a darker place when they lose something like that. The system resilience from enough self definitions argument is that if you have enough self definitions you will not lose yourself in losing one of these self identities, because while you may lose one piece, you have the other pieces to fall back on which can help blunt the blow. "Oh, I am not a boyfriend / girlfriend / NB-friend anymore, but I am still a father and a friend and a philosopher and a disc golfer, and that is enough."

The other piece of this argument I made in our discord group:
To expand on the thought of multiple self definitions; usually when a large self identifier breaks, it is just a small piece of a larger constructed object that breaks, as most larger self definitions are an amalgamation of smaller self definitions. Like "employed software engineer" may be a self definition of made up of the smaller definitions: "person who makes lots of money from this task", "person who is good at complex abstract problem solving", "person who can break large complicated tasks into workable bits", and "person fluid in xxx,yyy,zzz languages" (and probably a bunch of other stuff). Really just the component money bit broke here, all the rest are invariant or acquired qualities of yourself (To put it kinda even more in OOP terms, the object that broke inherited from a lot of more basic objects that are still fine, just one inherited object broke and thus the larger object broke).

So to some degree the way that I would think of making a career change or lifestyle change is by breaking the definitions into smaller pieces you can keep alongside you... I.e. you can take "abstract problem solver" and "ability to break large tasks into smaller workable bits" and employ the gained skills / qualities towards another field in a paid position, or volunteering, or literally just solving hard math problems from a club or website or something, so you don't need to abandon the parts that are important to you (unless you want to; which is also totally fine)
So the "Loving partner of XXX" self definition after a breakup still exists, just as a slightly different "Loving partner who is currently alone", and all the self defined traits that make it up can still exist too.

This is remnant of the stoics a bit, but I think they usually put it less pragmatically than I did here, and more in a "this is wisdom" sort of way without explaining the mechanism behind it.

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Slevin
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Forced experiment: using a cooler instead of a fridge for a week or two.

My last fridge was having a breakdown and on its last legs (failing compressor + broken door), leading to a replacement being cheaper than the parts without fabrication of some kinda complex plastic bits or buying a completely new door (1100) and fixing the compressor. A new decent fridge is cheaper than that, so I ended up going that route.

Unfortunately upon having the new fridge delivered, it fit in the space but didn’t quite have the clearance for the left door to open, so I’m ending up returning that and getting a different one. Boring “buy the right stuff” nonsense, and apparently always email tech support for refrigerator clearances which are the real number you care about instead of just the “fitting” numbers advertised online. Lesson learned.

But, alas we without a fridge for a week or so once this new one gets picked up to be returned. NBD, we borrowed a big yeti from a friend, filled it with a bunch of ice from the nearby gas station, and we should be good to go until new stuff arrives. Temps will be variable, but nbd since we are plant based. I consider it a fun little exercise in stoicism, where nothing is really changing, but we have to adapt to a more “European” style of eating (more trips to the market) for the week, since our volume of food storage is pretty highly diminished. Should be fun, just need to figure out what to use for excess mass since we don’t have the freezer all the way full. Ice would Obvs be best, but is relatively expensive if we have to buy it.

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Slevin
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End of May update: NW: ~285kish

May was probably the most stressful month I’ve had in years. My partners parents were visiting for a week for her masters graduation, then my fridge delivery was botched, leaving 2 refrigerators at my very small house until Wednesday this week all while trying to finish up house repairs to hopefully make the place sellable at the drop of a hat. Crazy!

Non rent spending coming in at $900 for May,
$300 of that is utils and car insurance
$400 is food spending (oof that’s high) but $100 of that is celebratory meal for my partner’s graduation, and there is 100 lbs of bulk food purchases in there too (brown rice and garbanzos). And some extraneous herbs and veg that are planted made it onto that list too. So I’ll say “meh”. I also don’t care all that much about pretty high food spending when the bulk of it is just buying local fruits and veggies from the farmers market.

Then the other $200 is in my everything else category. A new hose, fireplace curtains, and a bunch of stuff from Target that I can’t remember and don’t have written down.

Books Read:
Quiet - the power of introverts… (finished)
Good book. Lots of conflation, but there’s enough gold in there to dig through the extraneous bits. I feel a lot more chill about my existence now, and realize a lot of the advice I was given by my parents / others was just biased by the giver and should be taken in as such.

Termination Shock (reading): really good writing for Stephenson. I’ve read a bunch of his early work recently and his writing style has become much much better and cohesive over his career. Haven’t finished it yet so I can’t judge the content too much till I make it there.

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mountainFrugal
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Slevin wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 5:41 pm
Termination Shock (reading): really good writing for Stephenson. I’ve read a bunch of his early work recently and his writing style has become much much better and cohesive over his career. Haven’t finished it yet so I can’t judge the content too much till I make it there.
I agree. I think he has also gotten better editors. They would no longer allow the famous Captain Crunch scene in Cryptonomicon (http://akkartik.name/post/capn-crunch ) although it has a special place in my heart.

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Slevin
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mountainFrugal wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 5:51 pm
I agree. I think he has also gotten better editors. They would no longer allow the famous Captain Crunch scene in Cryptonomicon (http://akkartik.name/post/capn-crunch ) although it has a special place in my heart.
100% agree. Also, I seem to have forgotten the captain crunch scene, it is amazing.

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Slevin
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Noticing I am non healthcare non rent FI (I.e. 4% will it is cover all my other expenses) and there is still plenty of optimization left in that number. Still trying to figure out a move to the PNW or NorCal, in a way that doesn’t break all my numbers too bad. NorCal is generally feeling like a nightmare to navigate cheap housing in. Oregon can be much better depending on the region. Washington might also be good in the sense there is no state income tax. Just don’t think I can handle the grey coming from the sunniness that is Colorado. Obvs I could probably be very very close to FI if I moved to different cheaper parts of the country, so maybe I’m just having dumb thoughts right now in moving towards my partner’s family.

My partner recently started a job doing nudging with companies and institutions towards more sustainable foods and diet, and this has also led us to talking about ways we can nudge ourselves into making certain better choices for our life as well.

recal
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As someone who's lived in CA my entire life (with some odd exceptions I hated), NorCal is possible, it's just about priorities. I probably wouldn't trade it for the world except for my pipe dreams of moving back to NYC or trying London. (Either way, they're equally pricey to the Bay Area, so financially it's easier to plan for the Bay.)

I currently live in a much smaller apartment than people would in Colorado. I love it. It drives the FI price a bit higher, but it's reasonable to me because I value being in an urban area.

Now, if I wanted to live in NorCal, not the Bay Area per se, I think the options are almost limitless. I would buy land for $100-150k, or a bigger plot for $300k and find someone to split it with, and get a California-approved prefab home for $200-300k. Is that still more than the rest of the country costs for housing? Absolutely. But it's possible! Only caveat: This probably requires 100% cash to do and it's probably still a big project.

Oakland in particular has passed a law saying tiny homes, RVs, etc.. are allowed on residential property now as long as there's the proper hookups. https://www.oaklandca.gov/news/2021/oak ... -ordinance

I think this opens up a lot of doors for folks who don't need big housing.

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Slevin
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recal wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:42 am
As someone who's lived in CA my entire life (with some odd exceptions I hated), NorCal is possible, it's just about priorities. I probably wouldn't trade it for the world except for my pipe dreams of moving back to NYC or trying London. (Either way, they're equally pricey to the Bay Area, so financially it's easier to plan for the Bay.)

I currently live in a much smaller apartment than people would in Colorado. I love it. It drives the FI price a bit higher, but it's reasonable to me because I value being in an urban area.

Now, if I wanted to live in NorCal, not the Bay Area per se, I think the options are almost limitless. I would buy land for $100-150k, or a bigger plot for $300k and find someone to split it with, and get a California-approved prefab home for $200-300k. Is that still more than the rest of the country costs for housing? Absolutely. But it's possible! Only caveat: This probably requires 100% cash to do and it's probably still a big project.

Oakland in particular has passed a law saying tiny homes, RVs, etc.. are allowed on residential property now as long as there's the proper hookups. https://www.oaklandca.gov/news/2021/oak ... -ordinance

I think this opens up a lot of doors for folks who don't need big housing.
What California approved prefabs are you seeing for 200-300k? I have been considering some land that’s up for sale right now, if there is 200-300 approved prefabs including install I might just close the deal.

recal
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Post by recal »

Maybe prefab was the wrong word used, modular maybe? Most of these estimates seem to be about $300 per square foot for California, that * a 600 - 1000 sq. ft model. A quick search brings this up: https://modularhomeowners.com/modular-h ... er-200000/

Will this be approved in CA? How much does it cost to bring a lot up to earthquake, water, and power code in CA? Is it easier with a tiny home on a trailer or an RV? Maybe. I don't know too many details. I prefer to rent in California (I live in a rent-controlled apartment and prefer to be downtown for walkability and mobility), but I'm keeping it in the back of my mind if I need to reduce expenses for income approval reasons.

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Slevin
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Ah yeah I've looked at a bunch of those hosues before. Cross referencing with the actual websites, those price estimates are wildly out of date and/or don't include site work + buttoning up/ etc (likely up to 50%) of costs. I've seen a couple of places that seem like they can actually get it done on a smaller place for 500 or so all in on the building costs, but thats a far cry from 200-300 unfortunately.

My current intuition was generally leaning towards kithaus or something similar with a set of basic modular components that can be used that are easy-ish to understand and replace and don't require a full-on foundation due to the aluminum framing, but idk if there is some specialness to the aluminum frames that may be a huge PITA down the road when the company eventually folds and I need to repair a wall or something.

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