Under the Yoke

Where are you and where are you going?
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Slevin
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Re: Under the Yoke

Post by Slevin »

Yeah I guess maybe I’m misunderstanding, but I would think the new job would be asking for your current pay (from a different company)? Then wouldn’t they *not* usually be calling your current company, as then you would be basically telling your current employer that you are quitting, before you have actually accepted another position? And this could damage the employee’s current job?

Here in the US the salary switching from job hopping is just a total b.s. game where everyone throws out ridiculous numbers until the employee and employer agree to a salary. It would be super weird to be limited to “x% increase no matter what your value is”, so it’s a foreign concept to me. Also ethically I wouldn’t care if I was lying to fix my pay if I’m being terminally underpaid for my work (as sounds like may be the case in your situation). It also sounds like in your system you should jump jobs literally as quickly as possible to just increment the 10% jumps? Or at least double jump a few times, and claim “oh I didn’t fit in with the company” or something like that when you get asked about it in interviews? Or are you guys on timed contracts?

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fiby41
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Re: Under the Yoke

Post by fiby41 »

ertyu wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:25 pm
If you do get caught, I assume you'll be fired. Will future employers ask your current HR what was the reason for firing you?
I've two anecdotes regarding this:
A colleague's friend was fired for a physical altercation (slapping) another person and it took him 6 months to find another job.
Slevin wrote:
Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:47 am
Then wouldn’t they *not* usually be calling your current company, as then you would be basically telling your current employer that you are quitting, before you have actually accepted another position? And this could damage the employee’s current job?
The team lead likes to brag about that one time he received a call from a third company asking about an employee who had worked under him but had since left to work at a second company.
Slevin wrote:
Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:47 am
It also sounds like in your system you should jump jobs literally as quickly as possible to just increment the 10% jumps?
Yes that's true. The cohort I was hired in had 42 people comprising 34 men and 8 women. 38 showed up including all the men and half the women. Fast forward a year later, 29 are remaining. Those who left were all men.
Slevin wrote:
Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:47 am
Or at least double jump a few times, and claim “oh I didn’t fit in with the company” or something like that when you get asked about it in interviews?
Other questions they ask are 'Do you have any other offer?' and 'Are you currently serving notice period?'. I guess it works as pre-selection/social proof that other recruiters find you suitable.
A long time colleague of the team lead & program manager had come to visit a few months back. He worked for 4 years where I am working but in the last 1 year had switched thrice and the next day to that was his first day at the fourth company.
Slevin wrote:
Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:47 am
Or are you guys on timed contracts?
Currently we are "enjoying continued employment." A previous prospective employer had me choose between signing a 2 or 3 year SLA (service level agreement) bond with the difference between the salaries being 10.35%. I chose the 3 year one just to have an offer in hand. The next prospective employer wanted to see this offer and offered me 10.94% hike after 5 days of seeing it.

A notable exception is government jobs which have their 'pay scale matrices' with 'level up-gradation' based on number of years worked keeping things transparent and discouraging inter-department switching.

zbigi
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Re: Under the Yoke

Post by zbigi »

fiby41 wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:49 am
My effective hourly rate is only ₹100 so should I also work as much?
Did you consider emigration? In a wealthy country, you could make 50-100x as much (assuming you're in coding) for the same effort. I know it's an extremely heavy proposition, but so is working for peanuts.

Also, from what I've heard, the Indian branches of American tech companies pay very well (a def. don't do none of that 10% raise over past payslips BS).

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Ego
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Re: Under the Yoke for September 2022

Post by Ego »

fiby41 wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:31 pm
Saving rate for September 2022 was 82.28%.
14 month rolling average stands at 88.60%.
Savings grew by 3.29% in September 2022.
fiby41 wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:49 am
My effective hourly rate is only ₹100
Amazing!

I always read your journal because you recalibrate my idea of what is possible. Thank you for that!

₹100 =US$1.21

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fiby41
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Re: Under the Yoke

Post by fiby41 »

@zbigi I had taken one orientation class where they took us through the process of applying for post graduation abroad presumably to eventually work there. It would take approx. 6 years to break even after paying off the domestic loan with 75% saving rate and the ERE argument against would be to become domestically FI first and then I could always try for international FI later. Also have some experience under the belt. In the US, one on student visa gets IIRC 2 years to find a job after graduation before the visa expires. I'll have to look into ways of emigrating without having to enroll into a master's program so thanks for bringing it up. Reminds me of the students who were with me in Russia who would bunk classes to do their 5 shifts/week.

@Ego I'm glad you feel that way although there is the argument that I'm playing on easy/cheat mode living with parents and all. If I had to live by myself, I'd have to move to another city with lower rents where my employer has a workplace to keep the savings rate above 75%.

Here are the particulars of expenses in September with date, cost in ₹s and reason with people's and places' name anonymized:

01-Sept-22 400 Retured 500 borrowed from A less Destination train ticket
02-Sept-22 60 Palak paneer rice dal
50 12 bananas
05- 120 84 days; 30 trips; max ₹5 each. Actual cost ₹150, saved ₹30 or got 6 trips free
3400 GATE 2023 exam fees for dual subjects EC & CS
06- 102.15 A train ticket from Source > Destination.for Friday 09-09-2022. Received 2k from A.
08- 65 Saoul-kadhi @ __ Restaurant reimbursed B.
12- 50 Veg Cheese Franky @ __ Station
12- 122 Cheese cubes weighing 200 mg from __ General Store
14- 780 5 Source > Destination train tickets for 1st Oct morning. Received reimbursement from 3 people immediately.
16- 10 Bundi ladu at __ station
17- 398 Source > Destination return train ticked for 2nd October 2022
18- 15 3 bananas
20- 35 2 idli; 2 vada
22- 50 A dozen bananas
23- 72 4 idlis; rose milk at __ station; half liter Amul milk
24- 100 Navaratri offer for first time recharge of ₹100 gives balance of ₹200 on __ bus app
26- 10 pineapple juice
27- 45 4 idlis; hot chocolate
28- 132 hot chocolate; 8 blocks of cheese totaling 200mg

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Ego
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Re: Under the Yoke

Post by Ego »

fiby41 wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:28 pm
@Ego I'm glad you feel that way although there is the argument that I'm playing on easy/cheat mode living with parents and all. If I had to live by myself, I'd have to move to another city with lower rents where my employer has a workplace to keep the savings rate above 75%.
I think it would be fair to call it cheat mode if you were planning to someday move out and leave them to fend for themselves. I do not believe that is the case.

Also, you always write about the nuts and bolts of how you are doing things and how you plan to do things. Little navel gazing. No whining. Just doing.

Respect.

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fiby41
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Under the Yoke for October 2022

Post by fiby41 »

Savings rate for October 2022 was 86.36% of income.
Assets Under Management (AUM) or total savings grew by 3.55% in the month of October.
AUM will exhaust in 23 years on February 2045 if I spend like every month was September 2022.
Allocated 1.71% of AUM for purchasing BBB rated unlisted bonds with 11.5% XIRR and 1 year maturity expiring on 08th November, 2023.
Savings rate rolling average is 88.46%.

Returned money borrowed to buy bonds reducing cash-at-hand and hence expense rate to 25.23% of income making minimum savings rate for November 75% and targeting to go for 90%.
Workplace is enticing me with group discount for buying laptop(s) in bulk but the actual cost is still a month's take-home-salary.

Books in the past few months:
This Is Marketing
The Mythical Man Month
The Pragmatic Programmer
Persuasion IQ
The Subtle Art of Not Giving A F
Slowly winding down on books and loading up on lectures to prepare for the exam. Will need to buy a pendrive to load lectures with for watching at home as the personal internet connection has expired.

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fiby41
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Re: Under the Yoke for November 2022

Post by fiby41 »

It is unintuitive to handle/digest small losses for the possibility of large payoff.
I will keep learning for various exams that cost between 15 days to a month of expenses in order to eventually find a "calling", inclination or "win big." What I study is all over the place and highly disorganized as it depends on a combination of whatever I find interesting, availability of content and how long I'm able to stay through concepts I don't understand but might eventually if I try long enough.

I'm setting apart a cometitive exam fees fund for myself as I invest most of the salary as soon as it is received and have little left for paying fees before the due dates. Today was such an exam called CAT which I didn't register for. A coworker has been missing work in order to study for it for the past few days. Where as I have limited entertainment to physical forms only and attending free concerts during the weekend. CAT XAT ATMA MBA-CET SNAP NMAC for MBA/PGDM admissions. GATE CSE & ECE for ME/MTech. UGC-NET Sanskrit & Sanskrit Traditional. I'll give them all! I might come out a careerist when it's all said and done.

I still haven't developed the self-control to guide myself when I leave the job, if the weekends are any indicator. Probably will fall into hedonic self-indulgence, atleast under I get it out of the system. Tentative stop-working date is 2 years and 9 months from now when I would have earned back enoughto live perpetually plus recovered the amount my parents have spent on me since birth, education and all. Basically when I am net neutral and no longer a burden on society/earned my keep.

There is a rule in the company policy where we cant take more than three days of paid leave. Plus 2 days of leave are deducted if we are absent on Monday or Friday. Little less than 5% of the pay is withheld as gratutity which can be received only after completing 5 years at the company. I will receive 30 days of earned leave after completing 4 years at the company. I have to work only 6 days on my worst month to earn a month's worth of expenses. I will exhaust all my leaves by working 2 or 3 days a week and then go on leave without pay when all the paid leaves are up effectively taking a pay cut but not quitting until I have an offer from another company or college in hand.

Had borrowed money to buy AA- rated bonds totalling 7% of total savings but received allocation equal only to 2.31% of total savings. Will be returned the amount not retained by the bond issuer/'s bank from the exchange after which will return the amount amounting to almost a months salary back to mother.

Savings rate in the month of November was 94.45%
If I spent like I spent this month, savings would last until June 2077.
16-month rolling savings rate average is 88.83%
Total savings grew by 4.06% this month.

When I am no longer working for money, I would what would motivate me? Status? Likely try my hand at entrepreneurship.

Body fat percent is 23% out of which 7% was viceral fat.
Blood sugar is 129 mg/dl

Expense on food will be higher next month as the mother will be in Viet Nam.

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Ego
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Re: Under the Yoke for November 2022

Post by Ego »

fiby41 wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:13 pm
Blood sugar is 129 mg/dl
Was this result after fasting overnight?

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fiby41
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Re: Under the Yoke for November 2022

Post by fiby41 »

Ego wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:36 pm
Was this result after fasting overnight?
I fast on the 11th day from the full/no moons which was last Sunday.
Diabetes can be hereditary in some part and I have it approaching from both sides as both my maternal and paternal grandmothers had it and my father has it.
This is the first time I've tested which was on Monday night after one hour post dinner.

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Ego
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Re: Under the Yoke

Post by Ego »

Can you buy A1C tests over the counter there or must you go to a doctor?

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fiby41
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Re: Under the Yoke

Post by fiby41 »

Ego wrote:
Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:38 pm
Can you buy A1C tests over the counter there or must you go to a doctor?
The instructions in the box said no prescription required and they are available over the counter.
It is suspected that most people don't know they have high blood sugar as they don't get tested until they start noticing health issues.
Now the city's municipal corporation is trying out going door to door testing people.

mathiverse
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Re: Under the Yoke

Post by mathiverse »

@fiby41: A1C is not the same as testing a your blood sugar at a single point with a blood sugar monitor. An A1C is an estimate of your blood sugar over the last three months. A1C is a better way to tell if you are regularly having high blood sugar than testing at a single point. Another decent way is to check if your blood sugar is high when it shouldn't be is to measure after an overnight fast as Ego mentioned. In the US, there is a level of fasted blood sugar that doctors consider pre-diabetic and then a higher level that a doctors consider diabetic.

Also it's not clear if you know this, so I'll mention that blood sugar peaks in the hour or two after eating. 129 gm/dl an hour after eating seems fairly healthy, but maybe I'm mistaken.

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fiby41
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Re: Under the Yoke

Post by fiby41 »

Thanks for the clarifying information mathiverse.

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fiby41
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Under the Yoke for December 2022

Post by fiby41 »

When I felt like I am rotting in the office, I thought of it as return on time (ROT) which I have to replace with return on investment to retire.
Savings rate in December 2022 was 93.82% with assets under management increasing by 3.89%.
AUM will last until February 2045 if I spent every month what I spent in December 2022.
17-month rolling average is 89.18%.
I'm running around with a cash advance of about 1/5th of a month's salary, a part of which I may have to pay back, which was required to travel to another city for work.

42.89% of my assets are locked up in the public provident fund which I stared as soon as got my permanent account number with the income tax department which I had applied for as soon as I turned 18 years old.
I will be able to withdraw upto 50% of it after completing 7 years of operations.
I am going to use the proceeds to buy Basel3 compliant listed unsecured perpetual debt instruments having a yield to maturity of 12.3516% per anum and coupon rate of 13.75% with rating stable A-.
The yearly payout roughly equaling monthly salary received by me in the first year of my employment.

I mostly go to work for the free tea/coffee and biscuits, socialization, routine, free internet and any work that gets done is incidental. Unless I punch in and start going away on really long walks, there is no chance I will get fired.

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fiby41
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Asset Allocation In Terms of Monthly Salary

Post by fiby41 »

1 year and 5 months of salary in PPF. Sovereign risk. 7.1% pa.

2 months and 3 days of salary in EPF. Sovereign risk. 8.1% pa.

Bank FDs:
4 months and 3 weeks of salary in JSFB. Default risk. 7.75% pa.

2 months and 2 weeks of salary in USFB. Liquidity risk. 6.25% pa.

2 months and 2 weeks of salary in crypto.

3 months and 3 weeks in SCBL looking for eligible investments.

Got allocated 2 bonds instead of the 1 I bought. Now the platform is asking it back. So momentarily my AUM is above 1.5 million ₹s.

1 month in 150 small to mid cap company ETF. Up 12% from purchasing price.

Bonds:

2 weeks in a non-banking finance company give loans to small and medium size enterprises for buying machinery. 10.5% coupon rate with maturity 26th Sep 2025.

1 week in a company that gives out loans via an app with 11% coupon for cumulative and 10.49% for monthly pay-outs until maturity 16th May 2025.

1 week in a company providing credit access in rural areas with coupon 10% and maturity 23rd Nov 2027.

2 months in unlisted bonds of a company providing personal loans to salaried employees with coupon 11.5% and maturity 9th Nov 2023. Liquidity risk.

1 month in the pension plan. Inflation risk.

1 week in a stock of a oil refining company.

2 and a half months in a P2P lending company. Expected 12% in 3 months. Default risk.

Cash and cash equivalents (minimum balances that had to be maintained) add up to a month. Insured by the Deposit Insurance and Credit Guarantee Corporation (DICGC.)

Have scope for making a FD of another 3 months and 3 weeks without hitting the limit after which tax starts being deducted at source (TDS.)

All farm income including first level of processing is tax-exempt here so looking into it.

A total of that amount has been saved so as to pay myself my salary for 3 years and 4 months.

Savings rate in January is 90.61%

ertyu
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Re: Under the Yoke

Post by ertyu »

In India, where and how do most professionals tend to invest their earnings? What is the cultural priority of real estate, gold, the stock market, starting a business, etc? Your post made me curious

Congratulations on an excellent job saving so far :muscle:

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fiby41
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Re: Under the Yoke

Post by fiby41 »

According to an estimate half of Indian wealth is locked in real estate and gold.

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fiby41
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The future of India lies in its villages.

Post by fiby41 »

Utilized 13.37% of total savings to become a limited partner in a company engaged in farming activities with my profit share caped and guaranteed at 16% of my principal annually which comes out to be about 14% returns annualized. That's is about double of the 7.1% rate at which the other 46.17% of my assets are locked-up.

Risks at the farm produce cultivation level are two fold- weather risk. The monsoons have been erratic recently. This risk is mitigated by cross-farming. Cross farming means planting rows of different crops alternatively and avoiding mono-crop cultures. Instead of going all in on cash crops like cotton, growing a mixed basket which can be sustained.
The other risk is market risk where there may not be a profitable market when the crops have been winnowed. This is mitigated by having future contracts with procurers.
The risk at the LLP level is liquidity, bankruptcy, fraud risks. Liquidity is a real risk as once land is leased and inputs (seeds, fertilizers) bought it would be nearly impossible to liquidate it at cost.

Half of the population in my country in engaged in agriculture but it is subsistence farming and the land is fragmented into small parcels due to being divided over generations of inheritance and wealth redistributing land laws that granted land titles to the actual cultivators from the owners. Many farmers are stuck in a debt spiral and the count of farmer suicides which started since liberalization of the economy has crossed four hundred thousand.

Taking partnership in this company is start of me transitioning into entrepreneurship. It is part of the barbel strategy where even if I lose it all, I can earn back the amount via income from salaries in 5 months or less. Returns from agriculture is completely uncorrelated to capital gains from the securities markets. At the family level, at least a third of the total assets are market-linked, so this is much necessary diversification away from the share market. If the LLP is successful it will prove to be a viable business model for farming by treating it as a business.

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fiby41
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Under the Yoke for February 2023

Post by fiby41 »

Income from salary was lower as a quarter day leave was deducted as there is no provision for applying for a quarter day from the available leave balance on the online portal.
Assets under management grew by 3.55% thanks to a savings rate of 95.80%
Appeared for the graduate aptitude test in engineering exam. Travel and food during this constitute a third of this months spending.
Savings will exhaust during the August of 2108 if I keep spending like I spent this month.
Single largest expense was the electricity bill and cumulatively, food and transport are up there.

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