Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Where are you and where are you going?
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TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:21 am

A lot happened today. Had an office christmas party where a few faculty retired. These things always make me feel super depressed. It’s great that you worked for 40 years researching esoteric XYZ, but WHAT THE FUCK AM I DOING HERE!? I wish I had more in-person role models showing me: « yeah I worked at xyz department for 5 years and now I live out of a camper van with some savings and a MA . » These emotions make it tough to find motivation to work unfortunately.

Speaking of work, some work has piled up from working remotely for a few weeks after the surgery, so I got chewed out by a faculty member publically. I literally told him that his demands are unreasonable and walked out for the day. Then as soon as I did the stupid to-do he thanked me and re-verbalized that he was right. His emotional Intelligence: 0. This reminded me that it doesn’t matter who I work for, they care more about the work I produce than me as a person. And like, I get that because I’m paid to be there, but man, it’s pretty hard to socialize with people at work if I know that if leave, not one would reach out after a week or two. Now that i’ve been there for 6 months, I’m also suddenly expected to be an expert at the job, when frankly, not much has changed since month 5. Insterestihg change of gears I suppose.

A woman I was close to/slept with in college and know for 3 years, C, was visiting Miami. So I visited her in her hotel and cuddled/made out with her (she was with her family, and I’m pretty certain her fam was pissed lol). She’s in Atlanta at the moment, but said she was interested in me as a bf, instead of the 35 yr olds that want her as a sugar baby. She’s thinner than I am, and has a sweet/slightly needy attitude and slight republican lean. I actually really appreciate that compared to the more common « fuck you I don’t need you » attitude of left-leaning Weird Girl, for example. Let’s see where this goes. I’m not bringing up the bf title until she does, but I will visit and do the do + travel around Atlanta! I’m a sucker for a pretty woman that cuddles up next to me and occasionally asks me to reassure her, but I suppose so is every guy. *shrugs*

———-

I guess what I’m realizing is if work is the predominant life arch when you’re working full-time, then the way to be happy is to always have your to-do items done and done well. It doesn’t matter if you need to work some evenings or weekends or be on your phone; the tasks just need to be done. And frankly to plan vacation or eschew vacation because that often leads to a permanent back flow of to-dos. And don’t get me wrong, whether the to-dos are bullshit or not is just as unimportant as money being bullshit. It doesn’t matter because you need them to buy stuff and live well.

———

Another factor I’m totally on the bandwagon for is part-time work after a few years of heavy accumulation. The benefits of making money to spend instead of drawing down portfolio $ cannot be overlooked. The benefit of having years and years of expenses saved up and a low overhead can’t either. Its nice to be able to cover main expenses with portfolio $, and then work for extra things, like coconut ice cream, flights, and theater tickets. I agree that the revelation of part-time after near-FIRE is almost as big a revelation as FIRE itself.

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C40
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by C40 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:27 am

It seems like you have very unrealistic expectations of what you can get out of work. Having strong and emotionally fulfilling relationships at work is never automatic, and should not be an expectation. No person at work and no employer owes you that.

------

With friendships and relationships, you seem to place a lot of emphasis on permanence: whether co-workers will still be friends after you quit, or whether friends or lovers will still want to spend time with you after it becomes less convenient/beneficial. One of the most important lessons I've learned from various different old and wise dudes is how important it is to be able to love (and give friendship) without expectation. That means without expecting those people to behave in some specific way because of your love, and definitely means to love because of right now - not because you want/expect something to happen in the future, and without thinking they owe you anything.

I remember years ago when I read about how it's common for INTJs to be the slowest to tell partners "I love you". I realized that I had somehow built up "I love you" in my head to mean "I think you are perfect and I will love you forever". That was an important thing for me to recognize and change. It helped me to make dating and love much simpler and enjoyable. I'm still working on it.

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At work, be careful with how you respond to situations like that. Stoicism has good advice. If you are viewed as anything less than a very high-performer, walking out for the day because of a small conflict can soil people's views of you. I've seen way less be the tipping point for people getting fired.

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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Scott 2 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:01 pm

The faculty member should criticize in private, but he may also be an ally, giving you clear insight into job expectations. I'll take the asshole stakeholder, who tells me exactly what they want, every time.
I guess what I’m realizing is if work is the predominant life arch when you’re working full-time, then the way to be happy is to always have your to-do items done and done well.
This can be an effective strategy, but exhausting. The reward for doing all your work, is more work. Some managers will keep adding tasks until you start missing deadlines. That way, they know you are fully allocated.

There is a meta game to play, where you understand the priorities of the individuals and the organization, then leverage them to manage expectations. Or use them to further your own means. Consider the case where you want to see less of the guy originating your issue above.

Say that asshole faculty member is promised a response with in 24h. Their dumb request comes in on day 1, you refer it to a 3rd party on day 2 for input, letting faculty member know. 3rd Party gets back to you on Day 3, you give faculty member that update on Day 4, promise to complete on Day 5. Maybe on Day 5, your boss comes to you with urgent request.

You let her know "hey, i've got this thing for asshole, it's already been awhile because I needed 3rd party input, do you think it can go behind urgent request? Then I can finish urgent request today. Yes? Would you mind giving them a heads up?" Now the asshole task is pushed to day 6, and your boss has implicitly approved the 6x increase in turn around time.

You get to punish asshole and look like a team player, who both cares about quality and is putting the organization first. It's not as direct as calling him unreasonable and walking out, but the game doesn't allow for many of those.

henrik
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by henrik » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:15 pm

C40 wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:27 am
Having strong and emotionally fulfilling relationships at work is never automatic, and should not be an expectation. No person at work and no employer owes you that.
Especially at 6 months!

Crazylemon
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Crazylemon » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:37 pm

Work really does seem to generate a huge amount of psychic pain for you.
Yeah coworkers primary priority is to want you to get what they wan't you to do done. This is going to be true unless you make some sort of huge bond which is going to take years to develop.

I can't actually imagine walking out myself. Unless I tendered my resignation there and then. Yes it sounds like this person was an asshole but one of the things work can teach you is how to work well with people who have a totally different priority system and world view. This is useful long term. Walking out whenever something isn't right isn't an ideal coping strategy even if it is immediately effective.

As for work role models of the sort you describe. I have none either. Most people won't. Given said person is going to be around for 1/8th of the time of the 40 year person even the same number starting in a work force they would still be relatively rare due to drop out. Add in that it isn't a common thing to do and unless you are in an organisation of thousands you are likely to never meet someone at work with a similar plan.
Be thankful there is the internet and so at least a realisation these people


I totally agree on part time and as soon as I can do that it is my plan/hope.

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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Scott 2 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:42 pm

Someone on the ERE/FIRE plan isn't going to bring it up at work. Especially not to an entry level team member with 6 months of experience.

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TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:22 pm

Sounds like a lot of you have it much worse tbh. I <3 not working in business/for-profit. When I’m done with work, I’m done. And nobody cares if I decorate my office like a state park. In fact, they say it’s nice. I tend to see things how they could be better, and work is one of those things that could be improved immensely for people, but isn’t. What’s the point in investing in people that don’t invest back? That’s not love, it’s...entertainment, and would probably lower self-esteem.

I don’t need this job and don’t like Miami, so I’m simply going to do whatever I need to do my all of my work. I also do love my staff, we talk about everything from world disaster, to anti-capiatism, to real estate investing, to native reservations, to the PCT, etc. I will push back on shitty attitudes. It takes about 4 months to find a replacement in big bureaucracy, so... ( :

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7Wannabe5
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:53 pm

I’m a sucker for a pretty woman that cuddles up next to me and occasionally asks me to reassure her, but I suppose so is every guy. *shrugs*
Very true according to "Fascinating Womanhood" by Helen Andelin. You might want to read the companion volume "Man of Steel and Velvet" written by her husband Aubrey.

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TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:18 am

New thought: if you have the $ saved up, t’s much better to do an activity when you’re the one paying if you want to pass off the stress to the paid person haha. I suppose to work is to take on the burden of making sure everything comes out well, but to be the payee is to just enjoy the show and participate. That’s why college is more fun than being the staff person or the professor.

To that end, I think one full-time job is enough. I’d rather do the adventure recreation work as an attendee than as a leader. Fuck the liability of driving a loaded 15 passenger van, keeping track of gear, and dealing with other headaches.

Other thought: paid work also means you can’t flirt with the attendees. You’re no longer a full member of the community. Much better to be the attendee in that regard.

It would have been cool to try out the work, but I think my thoughts are accurate, and it’ll give me more bandwidth to do the MA and primary job without falling behind.

I am looking forward to becoming a part of the climbing group. No stress, just show up and climb. Same with archery, some of the cheaper trips organized by others, and with visiting Atlanta. Apparently with Frontier, that flight only costs around $60 round-trip.

——-

Perhaps the best position to be in in life is to be at least LeanFI (a few hundred grand), still be young, good-looking, and healthy, and to have your own (small) place and transportation. Maybe some self-employment or part-time work. This provides the most time, money, and value to nurture close friends and relationships. These should be the goals then.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:52 am

It's not a bad place to be ;)

You're 24 now right? What does your timeline to attain these goals look like? ~$300k is not too hard to get to with a high enough income/savings rate.

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TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:19 pm

If the compound interest calculator is correct, with saving around 45k per year, I can reach 300K by the time I’m 28. I’d still need to get my own place, though.

The biggest liability for me is getting too lonely to want to continue working full time, or getting canned if I don’t do all of my work because I take on too much other responsibilities, like grad school.

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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by white belt » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:25 pm

To me, it sounds like you're just going through some growing pains as you adjust to working in an office environment. I wouldn't change jobs or move until you've at least been in Miami for a couple of years. You're still settling in and your uneasiness is totally normal.

Take this with a grain of salt since I'm accustomed to working in stressful situations and moving every 1-2 years. A thought that often goes through my mind when I hear fellow millenials complain about their sheltered and privileged work/life being hard is, "Yes, life sucks sometimes. Look at what your parents or grandparents lived through." Additionally, "If you're going through hell, keep going." I found that until I really went through some crucible experiences in the military that I was not very resilient and that my millenial upbringing up to that point had not prepared me to be resilient. You seem resilient in some areas, it may help to figure out how to translate it into work life as well.

Scott 2 is right on the money with his metagame. That will work if a manager is truly being unreasonable, however you may not have the context right now to understand if that is actually the case.

An essential strategy is to put yourself in another person's shoes. You need to able to empathize with each person in the organization and understand things from his point of view. Ideally, your manager/boss will clearly lay out his expectations, although a weak manager may not do that. It's possible that the faculty member publicly chewing you out was just him directing his unreasonable frustration at you. It's also possible that he was giving you deliberate feedback in public to (1) correct what he sees as unacceptable behavior on your part (2) clearly demonstrate to other members of your organization his expectations. As a leader, if he lowers his expectations and cuts you slack, others will now think that they can sham and won't be held accountable.

You don't have to become some office political mastermind to do this, but understand that these dynamics absolutely exist in any group of humans. Once you start to understand the dynamics of an organization, you may find that those above you are actually very incompetent and consistently make poor decisions. Depending on your personality type, this may lead to more frustration or some strange comfort. Remember to think of work as more than just something you do for a paycheck, but as a way to understand human nature and whatever else fits into your web of goals. This will also help you to not take things personally.

I often see you comparing your post-college life to college life. I would be very careful in that regard because of rosy retrospection and the fact that the "real-world' is fundamentally different than a university campus. Even if you were to go back to a college town, since you are no longer an undergrad you won't enjoy the same easy access to social activities and college females. Post-college life requires you to put deliberate effort into your work, social, and dating life because of how isolated our world has become.

Sorry if my advice comes off as proselytizing; it's just my INTJ problem-solving side showing.

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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by theanimal » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:34 pm

The relationships you desire are possible through work but unlikely in the field you are in. Likely location too. If you are looking for those kinds of relationships, look for the rockstar professions. The ones with lots of young people in a field that's likely to collect people with similar mindsets. Tourism is one area, another is field jobs in some scientific field. I met my current group of closest friends working as a tour guide, wildlife biology technician and a forestry technician. The pay usually isn't extravagant, but that doesn't really matter if you follow ERE principles.

Have you looked at wilderness therapy before? I think you'd probably enjoy that for a little while. Working and helping others while spending time travelling in beautiful areas. Most schedules are typically 8 days on and 6 days off. Pay is usually decent too, but burnout is high. It could be something to try out for a year.

Also, as I've said before GO WEST!

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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:43 am

@theanimal, yeah man, can't wait to go west. West is my ideological home (Utah, Nevada, Wyoming, Montana, Colorado, Arizona, etc), so I think that's where I'll start planting some roots, but not yet. I have a good feeling about finding a gf in the next few months with the whole Atlanta and climbing thing. That'll entertain me for at least a year. I'm also stuck in braces for 3-6 months (although finally free from surgery!). It takes at least a few months to get a new job, and I want to get to 100K and a free MA dammit. lol Perhaps I can rush the MA in a year. I'll ask the adviser.

----------------------

UPDATE: I can't rush the MPA unless if I pay for more credits. I need 12 more classes to be done, and I can do 6 classes per year for free. I could pay for 2 additional classes per semester, or $9,000 out of pocket total, to finish the MPA by December 2019. Not to sure, that's a lot of $$ and stress (4 grad classes + full-time job), but I'd have my MA by 25 and 100K, not bad. Interestingly, a PhD in Public Administration would require only 30 credits more after the MA (10 classes), and then a dissertation. That's Dr. Fox to you. :lol:

An MSW after the MPA would be 60 credits (20 classes), and would be good since I could like doing part-time counseling work after the heavy accumulation is done. MSW offers very different careers than the MPA as well. Who knows maybe I'll just get TWO PHDs.

Working at a University has got to be one of the biggest hacks people.

-----------------------


UPDATE II
: Looks like I just found a fellowship that can pay for up to $18K of tuition plus a $15K stipend just for learning Portuguese. I like learning Portuguese. Hello application. Let's see what happens.

------------

NW 73K

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TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:15 pm

On today’s episode of Fox’s dating life, I met up with Cam Girl, a late twenty’s and still fit girl who is polyam and makes her living using limp ass men on the internet. Has one partner, and the partner has a fiancé. I quickly put two-and-two together and realized that Cam Girl wasn’t feeling as much love from her partner, which is supposedly where I come in. Oh, the gal! lol I did get a nice night and view at ocean side pent house, so there’s that. Shit’s crazy though, this girl literally wanted me out of her apartment after at 3 AM, whaaaaat. I’ll take your beer, but definitely not coming back for a second date. Shit, there isn’t even going to be a “had a nice time” text.

On the more permanent side of things, it looks like C wants to date. Yeah she’s a state over, but that night up there cost $70, and I’d muxh rather spend that on a relationship. Feeling kinda good about this one, but I don’t want to put too much weight on it quite yet.

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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Stahlmann » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:45 pm

AI developed by Stahlmann Institute, after computing above message, said that pro elo redpilled MGTOW PUAs advise to send "had a nice time" text to pass the buck in case of sexual allegations

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C40
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by C40 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:45 pm

So... you were upset that she didn't ask you to spend the night afterwords?

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BRUTE
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by BRUTE » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:59 pm

TopHatFox wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:43 am
Looks like I just found a fellowship that can pay for up to $18K of tuition plus a $15K stipend just for learning Portuguese. I like learning Portuguese. Hello application. Let's see what happens.
caralho, muito bem!

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TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:19 pm

I was more flabbergasted that she kicked me out at 3 AM while I was 30 miles away from home and not-sober. She had a backup bed too. Not kind behavior at all. Definitely felt like a commodified meat, but had a fun convo with the Uber driver where he regailed me with similar tales of nobody caring about anybody on the weekend. He suggested I move to North carolina haha.

Good news is, this is the last lead from Okc, and I am definitely done with it. Like for good. Curious to see what kinda leads the climbing group will lead to. (get it...lead climbing...ha....ha)

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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Jean » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:05 pm

I have a hard time figuring out what a miami climing group might look like.

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