Successfully retired at 39. Then investment fail.

[slowtraveler]

Wow, thank you for the courage to share that. I'm recently starting out and I felt the heartbreak reading your story.

That get rich for life without having to manage it myself is so tempting, but we have to be careful to understand what we invest in. Nothing is guaranteed and if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is. Thanks again for sharing.

[prudentelo]

http://www.awolgeordie.com/2022/03/reti ... 9.html?m=1

He made it.

[rube]

Great update. Like George predicted:

It is rough, but you have the skills and time to do it again, possibly faster than you did the first time because of experience.

[theanimal]

Congratulations! What a redemption story, and all the more savory now knowing what it was worth.

[johnsmith84730]

What works now will probably not work 10 years from now.

What about a 'World' ETF? (e.g. one that holds the top 100 or top 1,000 companies in the world)

Hasn't something like that (averaged out, and with a holding period of many decades) had strong returns in the last century, and isn't it likely to provide strong returns in the next century?

The same could probably be said for a diversified property portfolio in an ultra-stable western democracy.

Given that they essentially 'hold' the entire market/country, or at least reflect its performance, the only risks to these strategies seem to be something like a literal world war... and even then, if you don't sell, the recovery will probably reward you handsomely.

My aim is not to maximise returns, but to maximise returns *and* minimise my time (% of my remaining short life) that is dedicated to researching/managing said returns. Holding a single World ETF like that takes <10 minutes a year to 'manage'.

[johnsmith84730]

Please comment. I'd be interested to hear this community's thoughts. How can I recover? What to do?

One mistake that I don't believe you listed was this:
- investing in 'exotic' investment products

When people get rich, or retire, it's easy to get bored (or greedy) and start dabbling in more complex and/or exotic investment products that one doesn't fully understand. Often you think you fully understand things, but you don't. I've made this mistake both before and after retiring.

I will tell you what I would do - I would take it as a positive event in my life!

Life is funny, and sometimes things that seem terrible, actually turn your life in a direction with positive externalities that you wouldn't have otherwise experienced occur. Someone in this thread posted the "we'll see" story, which is kind of what I'm getting at.

Maybe you'll start a new career (I see you're talking about teaching math) which will inspire you and lead to a great life. Maybe you will move somewhere new and meet the love of your life and have many wonderful decades together. Sometimes, money or other things people generally consider positive in life can actually act more like a ball and chain around your neck without you realising it.

[Humanofearth]

Good redemption but is 360k really retired? There’s not much wiggle room if future liabilities increase.

I hope the crypto is mostly self custodied btc or eth.

[chenda]

Good redemption but is 360k really retired? There’s not much wiggle room if future liabilities increase.

It would be more than enough in SE Asia, even for an MMM lifestyle.

[white belt]

Wow this guy has quite a story. After reading his latest update, I assumed this was another stereotypical FIRE freedom-from story. However, I then read this post which shows a much more complex arc: http://www.awolgeordie.com/2021/06/15-y ... -asia.html

What is interesting is that author is still striving for traditional FIRE, when in reality it seems like he has spent most of the past 15 years living a semi-ERE lifestyle. I wonder what he plans on doing when "retired" that he hasn't already been doing?

It's also interesting to note that he describes the year after losing all his money as being so positive:

February was spent applying for an Education visa in Cambodia. However, by June it was clear that my retirement savings were gone. I was totally skint. Retirement had lasted a year. I left the girlfriend and was happy to be flying solo again. I taught part-time in a school and tutored on weekends. I watched every CMFC home game, went on lots of motorbike trips, drank at Nui's shop and ran the Chiang Mai half marathon in 1h59m. My Thai language skills improved enormously - speaking reading and writing - and I started to hang out with Thai people more.

[white belt]

Good redemption but is 360k really retired? There’s not much wiggle room if future liabilities increase.

I hope the crypto is mostly self custodied btc or eth.

In another post, the author talks about how he has a pension that kicks in at 60 which will fully cover his expenses, so really he just needs his savings to last 13 years: http://www.awolgeordie.com/2019/10/fina ... e.html?m=1

[chenda]

The blog is an interesting read, though it does show just how sordid that culture has become.

[Humanofearth]

pension that kicks in at 60…

Fair point. He’s been living his lifestyle for over a decade, I think with his fixed expenses and more stable tastes, it’s plenty for 13 years. Honestly, he could probably do it again since it doesn’t seem like he’s stopping work anyways. It’s nice to do something. If I didn’t have some fields to study and progress towards... The longer I’m alive (I’m practically a baby by age compared to most here), the more I think money doesn’t matter beyond survival. Humans enjoy progress. I’m happier living in a village with close friends and going to the gym every day than living in a big city and having a new restaurant every day. Consumption beyond a basic level isn’t fulfilling at all and he seems very aware of that.

@Chenda
You can find that type anywhere. He posted about dating a student as if it was rare compared to the typical entertainment worker he dated. Staying up till 4am at bars isn’t attractive to those who don’t do the same.

[prudentelo]

He seems like a very thoughtful man who has surrounded himself with "entertainment workers" and their clientele and has found them unfulfilling. Then in response he withdrew from the world.

Would have been better to direct his energies to finding other thoughtful people.

But now he can...

[chenda]

@Chenda You can find that type anywhere. He posted about dating a student as if it was rare compared to the typical entertainment worker he dated. Staying up till 4am at bars isn’t attractive to those who don’t do the same.

Yeah that was the one he got pregnant I think. I kinda admired his honesty in blogging about what happened next.

I went to Phuket once and hated the place. Full of fat, ageing, western men with 15 year old Thai girls on their arm, and utterly shameless about it. The sex industry is revolting in many different ways. I mean ping-pong balls are one thing but live birds...I mean I can't even begin to fathom the health implications of that, for both bird and women. Western tourists have turned much of Thailand into a shithole.

Although if your main aim in life is to get pissed every night and fuck a lot of Thai women then I guess it has a certain appeal.

[white belt]

Although if your main aim in life is to get pissed every night and fuck a lot of Thai women then I guess it has a certain appeal.

You can find that type anywhere. He posted about dating a student as if it was rare compared to the typical entertainment worker he dated. Staying up till 4am at bars isn’t attractive to those who don’t do the same.

Allow me to pontificate. The trope of "White guy goes to developing world to have a lot of sex" is a common one. I'll apologize ahead of time for painting in broad strokes and perhaps relying too much on anecdotal experience. I haven't spent any time in Thailand, but I have spent a bit of time in east Asia (China and Taiwan). I know there are forumites who currently or very recently lived in SE Asia so they may have a more accurate picture of things on the ground.

The way I see it, if you are a western male who is not able to find dating success in your local area you have the following options:

1. Improve your mate value by developing competence in a variety of domains. This is the ERE approach and is neither fast nor easy. Even if you succeed in becoming more attractive by getting healthier, more skilled, better able to signal those traits, having a stronger social network, and so on, you will still have to do the painful internal emotional work to be able to have healthy relationships. Depending on your starting point, this can be an extremely lengthy and difficult road to travel.

2. Improve your mate value by becoming rich and/or famous. This is the rockstar dynamic so is not scalable to everyone. The rich and famous will have virtually unlimited opportunities for dating, however it is often the case that many of your potential partners will only be interested in you because of your wealth or fame. The sugar baby arrangement is another manifestation of this.

3. Go to an area where your mate value is higher.


Although I don't know what OP's life was like before he left the UK, I suspect that many of the men that Chenda described seeing in Thailand haven't achieved a lot of recent dating success in their home countries (whether that was due to individual traits or situational like being stuck in an unhappy marriage). Therefore, they are pursuing option 3.

And to be very clear, if you are a white western male in many parts of Asia, your mate value is absolutely higher. You are perceived as exotic and wealthy. Your money goes further. You are probably taller and physically larger than the local men (more muscle, not just more fat). You might have dominant features like thick facial hair and body hair. Speaking English natively opens a lot of doors for jobs and social gatherings. In fact, I'd say in some ways going to Asia as a white guy is a similar dynamic to option 2. Wherever you go, people will pay attention to you. This can lead to a sense of entitlement and distortion of ego, just like it does with celebrities.

As an anecdote, when I studied abroad in Taiwan for ~2 months after graduating, I had as much dating success in those 2 months as I had in the ~6 years leading up to that point. I didn't date any prostitutes or girls who were looking for foreigners to fund their lifestyle, and I also pursued Western girls in combination with local girls. My dating skills had not really developed much at that point since college, I was just in a new area where my mate value was much higher. I also spoke very good Chinese at the time, which meant that I dated girls who were interested in Western guys but didn't feel like they have good enough English to hang out with them. Since then, I have done a ton of the option 1 work, so now my dating success in the USA is comparable to what it was in Taiwan, but I think that is not a typical path for most guys. Usually they just end up staying abroad and eventually shacking up with a native spouse.

What I find remarkable is how long OP was able to sustain his life almost entirely focused on hedonistic pleasures. I mean I get sowing your wild oats and what not, but by the looks of things he spent ~11 years chasing prostitutes and partying! I read some of his older posts and most of them describe staying out all night drinking and smoking with his expat friends and various Thai female entertainers. I didn't read all of his posts, but it's no coincidence that living that sort of lifestyle meant almost none of his friends were Thai guys or Western women, since neither would enjoy such a lifestyle very much.

His story reminds a bit of Hesse's Siddhartha; vacillating between a life of hedonic excess and ascetic simplicity.

[Humanofearth]

It is a feat to quit drinking in his 40’s. It seems to be a stable change that’s improved his life and will lead to something more fulfilling.

I spent some time in Phuket. Didn’t see what you mention (maybe it’s cleaned up or doesn’t show up before my bed time) but again, I wasn’t spending any time in that part of the city (probably Patong). I was in gyms and beaches in a local neighborhood far from any noise so I could sleep by 9pm for a 6am workout.

[chenda]

Although I don't know what OP's life was like before he left the UK, I suspect that many of the men that Chenda described seeing in Thailand haven't achieved a lot of recent dating success in their home countries (whether that was due to individual traits or situational like being stuck in an unhappy marriage). Therefore, they are pursuing option 3.

Interesting, yes I suspect you are correct. I've heard that western men find Japanese girls easy to meet, probably for the same reasons you mention. I have also heard of an inverse thing involving western women visiting west Africa looking for young men.

@humanofearth - I was there in 2009, so it may have changed a lot if you visited later. What were your impressions of Thailand ? I can't say I was enamoured by it but I know a lot of people who love it, not just sex tourists.

[Did]

I see he took a hit again when crypto and stocks shit the bed as one his commenters said…. Still looks like he is on track!

[Sclass]

Huh. My best friend in high school was a rich kid from Bangkok. He had been dropped off with the little sister of his brother’s mistress in LA to go to school. On Lakers nights he’d tell me about his summer activities. A fifteen year old kid being serviced at brothels. His brother would bring him starting at age 15. I can remember being really excited hearing the stories of getting laid up to three times a day (teenage libido) starting with his erotic shave, his afternoon spa, then finally his evening official date. All with the money I could make mowing lawns. I can still remember the little beads of sweat forming on my temples as I listened. A teenager with headgear and pimples quietly listening to these unreal stories. I can just see my 15 yo self saying, “no way man! Seriously? Is this for real? You did that?”

It ruined his ability to pair off with women by the time we hit college.

I think he ruined himself in a way. I’ve seen several other friends do this. I could never understand why they could never handle a relationship with anything other than a third world prostitute. They unlearned what nature gives us.

Buddy ended up in an arranged marriage back in Thailand. He still gets massages in town.

My BIL does this kind of thing in Tijuana. Perpetually single. Kind of pathetic. He’s 50 and never had a girlfriend. 100% dysfunctional with women. He never had to learn. My wife recently asked him, “why do you have to leave the country to have sex?”

Just saying besides being wrong on many levels, you’re not improving yourself if you do this.

[chenda]

@sclass I was reading how in Cambodia gang raping women is such a common ''recreational activity'' for young local men. Its almost normalised amongst working class Khmers. Needless to say prosecutions are rare and the women often gets blamed. There is a very dark side to these cultures which is often ignored in the west, which sees peace and love Buddhas everywhere.

My BIL does this kind of thing in Tijuana. Perpetually single. Kind of pathetic. He’s 50 and never had a girlfriend. 100% dysfunctional with women. He never had to learn. My wife recently asked him, “why do you have to leave the country to have sex?”

Do you think the sex tourism caused the lack of GF or was it the lack of GF which led to the sex tourism? Or a bit of both?