M's Journal

Where are you and where are you going?
Farm_or
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Re: M's Journal

Post by Farm_or »

Great journal. I like your perspectives. There are many versions of financial goals, probably as many different ways as there are people.

Your thoughts on different masters made me think. It's enjoying the drama and the journey that is often missed with a passionate goal. Maybe it's best to moderate goals, because who wants to sacrifice 100% for a delayed gratification only to be killed in a car wreck tomorrow. I like to say that only one foot in the past and one foot in the future can keep yourself centered in the present.

Your challenges of raising children is hilariously similar to mine. I think my kids are closer to 750 plastic widgets instead of 1000. We have to purge the disasters of their personal space in order for the next mountain of nonsense coming for Christmas.

Grandparents are the worst. You would think that two video game consoles is too many. How could we possibly end up when six? And five thousand different game disks?

People's perception of needs are very distorted. All of this and the occasion that a well meaning neighbor sent over bags of grocery caused me to question the persona that I am projecting. I thought it was humble, but they think we are poor? All I can do is laugh. And maybe replace my holey gloves more often?

M
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:34 pm

Re: M's Journal

Post by M »

@farm_or

lol at the neighbor. Many people think we are poor as well...and I never bother to correct them either because I dont want to sound like one of those egotistical snobs, etc. A "rich" person made fun of me once because i am "poor" because of how small my house is. I later found out that I both have and make way more money than they make combined and that they live paycheck to paycheck...Still kept my mouth shut. Im sure they still think we are poor.

I now have 336k in taxable, 42k in ira, 76k in 401k, 20k in hsa, 30k in rental house, and my main house is worth 140k. This means we have finally reached over 500K in invested assets! woohoo!

This gives me around 20k per year that I can withdraw. Or just enough to cover healthcare for a family in america, lol. Needless to say, Im very interest in what our elected officials are planning on replacing obamacare with, and what the future of healthcare is going to look like. Perhaps Canada should be in my future...?

On a side note...what do you guys do for fun? I feel like I need to play more and work less, but not sure what I shoukd be doing.

M
Posts: 423
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:34 pm

Re: M's Journal

Post by M »

Quick financial update:

800K in invested assets, plus 140k main house = 940K networth.

Have a little over 500k in taxable investments. The rest in ira/401k/hsa.

Expenses are still pretty much the same as before.

rube
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Location: Europe (NL)

Re: M's Journal

Post by rube »

Well done M, that is a big increase!

M
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:34 pm

Re: M's Journal

Post by M »

Well, it has been nearly seven years now since I started this journal. Today I hit 1 million dollars in financial assets. With the paid off house this puts my networth around 1.15 million usd. Salary is around 125k now.

I continue working simply because the job is easy and stress free these days. I am starting to think the real reason I even pursued ERE to begin with was just to have a sense of financial security in my life. Not sure what I should do now...

M
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:34 pm

Re: M's Journal

Post by M »

1.175 million in financial assets now. Expenses are around 22k now excluding health insurance.

I started a post in the money section asking the forum if I could retire with 4 children. The general consensus seems to be yes, although interestingly some people even in an ERE forum said they would continue working in my shoes. I asked the same question in the MMM forum about a year ago and about half of them thought I was nuts some thought I needed 2-3 million at least. It seems like the people who follow many of the FIRE bloggers are often a level or two below in wheaton levels than the fire bloggers they follow.

Thinking about switching to doing some remote software development work on a freelance basis. Not sure where to start though - upwork.com? idk. Any other software developers have experience doing remote freelance work?

It also occurred to me today that if I were retired my kids would all *technically* qualify for free lunch at school, which would drop the expenses another 2,300 dollars or so...so around 20k, or a withdrawal rate of 1.7%, assuming the ACA sticks around. If the Biden Families Act passes I would also get $1,050 /month in child tax credits, which are not tied to having a certain earned income anymore in the bill's current form. This means the stash would only need to cover 8k/year in expenses, or a withdrawal rate of 0.7%. I know several people who go to food banks also or dumpster dive, even well off people...If I did that as well I could drop the withdrawal rate to around 0% since we spend around this much on food. It would be ironic if I spent 20 years saving money only to not need it at all in the end.

I am at somewhat of a psychological hang up about quitting. There are two issues. The first is I have worked and accumulated for nearly 20 years now and have always seen my job as a sort of security blanket in a way. I think - if such and such happens, I can simply keep working and pay for it. Usually these are potential medical expenses that are somehow not covered by insurance, or my accounts getting hacked, etc. So I would be losing that security blanket in my mind.

The second issue is other people. I know a lot of people who are poor, or truly horrible with money, and some family members who might literally try and steal from me if they thought I had anything of value. I don't want to tell these people that I'm retired, or have money. Some of my in-laws I'm sure would heavily judge and criticize me for being on the ACA...Just like they already heavily judge some of the other more poor members of the family for being on the ACA. There are other people, mostly friends, who I talk openly about money. But basically - for the first group of people - I need some sort of cover story, and it seems like telling them I do remote freelance software development would be a good cover story...especially if I wind up doing this for real anyway.

At any rate - enough rambling for today. Time to start watching some Youtube and wind down for the night.

basuragomi
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Re: M's Journal

Post by basuragomi »

$1.2 million is more than the entire age 25-65 income of the median American worker, and it's all up front. It's easy to lose that sense of scale, sometimes.

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Chris
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Re: M's Journal

Post by Chris »

M wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:58 pm
The first is I have worked and accumulated for nearly 20 years now and have always seen my job as a sort of security blanket in a way. I think - if such and such happens, I can simply keep working and pay for it. Usually these are potential medical expenses that are somehow not covered by insurance, or my accounts getting hacked, etc. So I would be losing that security blanket in my mind.
This is understandable. But realize that eventually -- even at a typical retirement age -- this event will occur.


As for your judging relatives, I'm not sure what the big deal is about being on ACA. Are your in-laws not on the socialism-for-oldies health plan, AKA Medicare?

M
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:34 pm

Re: M's Journal

Post by M »

@basuragomi - This does really put it into perspective. Sometimes I do question if I...perhaps...saved too much actually. Other days I wonder if I saved enough in case x series of bad events were to occur. Some days it feels like I am just working to collect more money. I think about this a lot actually...whether I should be working or not.

@chris - Some of my in-laws believe no one should get anything for free from the government...unless it's them. :lol: They are very judgmental if they discover other people are ALSO getting free things from the government for some reason.

The older in-laws, in their seventies, never signed up for medicare. They refused to have or carry health insurance of any kind even when they were younger. They never see any form of doctor or dentist etc. Their plan, which they have stated on multiple occasions, is to die if they become seriously ill. They have already been seriously ill on a number of occasions and never went to the hospital so I think they are serious.

M
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Re: M's Journal

Post by M »

1.25 million liquid...

I have realized that I suffer from serious depression and anxiety. I mean...it is something I have always known. Usually I do not talk about it, for the same reason I do not talk about money. It has gotten particularly bad lately...I have been crying lately, randomly, for no reason. Getting out of bed is challenging on many days. I am fortunate to have a job that does not care if I do nothing some days...like today. Even working from home, I just cannot bring myself to it mentally some days.

Thinking back on it, the whole reason I started saving was because I had anxiety about running out of money. This morphed into anxiety about losing my job. Somewhere along the way I realized I could exchange my job income with passive income someday. Now I have anxiety about the safe withdrawal rate at these stock valuations. I'm not sure if retiring will really solve this anxiety.

My family has a long history of mental health issues on both sides...Like, my grandmother used to run down the street naked before being put in the crazy home sort of mental health problems. My mother knew this and did tons of research on mental health and nutrition when she was younger, but she also went crazy. I started having panic attacks during the pandemic.

I'm not sure if I have a point here. At this point this is the longest running journal I have had in my life, and the only historical record of my financial life. I just cannot bring myself to quit my job. At this point I wonder if that would just cause me to lay in bed all day. Idk...

Asush
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Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:21 pm

Re: M's Journal

Post by Asush »

Hi M, I enjoyed reading your journal so far - thanks for sharing.

If you quit your job you could frame it (to yourself and others) as a sabbatical - ie. that you are going to take 6 months or a year out before applying to your next job. It sounds like your experience and skills will be in demand even with a break on your resume.

If you aren't comfortable quitting, could you take some time off (a few weeks or months unpaid leave maybe)? Or negotiate part time hours? Basically anything to get yourself more time & energy for yourself.

Have you considered therapy? I've found it very helpful. I've struggled with depression since I was a teenager - mostly it was mild or in the background, but there were periods when it prevented me from doing anything. I think my mental health is currently better than it has ever been, and that is partly due to therapy.

From what you said about your family and wondering if you would spend all day in bed if you quit ... it sounds like you are feeling a bit hopeless, that you are always going to feel how you feel now. That is part of depression. When I had bad periods I felt like that was just who I was and there was no point trying to change anything. But these days I feel more content in myself and more hopeful about the future than I would have thought was possible.

Gilberto de Piento
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Re: M's Journal

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

I'm sorry you're having to go through this. Depression and anxiety are miserable. I'll second the suggestion for therapy. If you don't seem to be getting anything from the experience switch. You could also seek out a specific type of therapy. There are some newer methods like cbt that are really working for some people.

Also consider medication. It can work wonders sometimes. If you already have it and it isn't working maybe the type or dose needs adjustment.

All of the other suggestions that you often see are probably worth trying: exercise, mindfulness, avoiding alcohol and other drugs, good nutrition, getting outdoors, getting sun, avoiding work and other stress, making life changes big or small if needed, etc.

Maybe people here could help you feel better about your finances if you provided a few more numbers?

Good luck! I hope things improve for you.

M
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:34 pm

Re: M's Journal

Post by M »

Thanks guys. knowing that strangers on the internet care is beneficial somehow.

I was in therapy as a teenager and was on antidepressants. This did not help at all, the pills just made me feel mentally numb instead of in constant pain. I lied to the therapist to get off the meds. That was 20 years ago, so maybe the medicine has improved since then. I have mostly just tried to deal with it since then, but lately it has morphed into panic attacks and a sort of mental pain that goes with the sadness, kind of like a constant mild headache. I was not aware that the brain could malfunction like this. Many people have told me in my life to go back to therapy, which I should probably do at this point. I just wonder how much that costs.

As for money, our spending for the last 12 months has been 24k almost exactly. The 1.25 million liquid includes about 750k in taxable accounts, mostly invested in reits and stock index funds. This account generates about 24k in dividends. The rest is in iras, hsas, and 401k which is all invested in stock index funds. I think I could retire. Just not sure if that is the right thing to do.

Der Leiermann
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Re: M's Journal

Post by Der Leiermann »

Seems like money should not be a factor in your decision on whether to undergo therapy or not, your financial buffer is quite large.

shaz
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Location: Colorado, US

Re: M's Journal

Post by shaz »

I'm sorry to hear you are depressed. That really sucks.

If you don't want advice, please ignore the following.

1. It's better to avoid making big decisions like retiring until your brain is working better, unless you think your job might be the problem.

2. It might be a brain chemistry problem. Depression and suicide run in one side of my family and I struggled with depression when I was younger. What I learned is that exercise + sunlight keeps my brain chemistry right. I'm not saying that is the answer for you but it is worth trying all of the things Gilbert de Piento suggested.

3. If you start to have thoughts about harming yourself please get help. You can afford therapy. You can't afford to be dead.

Good luck!

M
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:34 pm

Re: M's Journal

Post by M »

I am feeling better now. I make sure to open the curtains every morning and stare outside toward the sun for a few minutes every day, eat 1 tablespoon of fish oil everyday, added turmeric curcumin to the vitamins I take, and try to talk to more people. I don't think this is a psychological issue per se - the depression and extreme fatigue arrive seemingly out of nowhere at times and then the negative thoughts follow, not the other way around. Sometimes I wonder if it is actually some sort of metabolic issue underneath. I have been feeling good for the past three weeks or so now so I will keep doing what I am doing. My diet generally follows the Healthy Eating Plate from Harvard and I take at least 7k steps every day. The diet and exercise has not changed...the only thing that changed is staring at the sun every morning and the turmeric...Oh, and I have been off of work for two weeks now and it has been amazing. Maybe work causes more stress than I realize...

M
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:34 pm

Re: M's Journal

Post by M »

I guess I should mention a couple more things. My BMI is 21. Blood pressure is 121/78 at last checkup and I can usually run a couple miles just fine, albeit at a slow 10-11 minute pace. triglyceride and ldl cholesterol are both low - forget exact numbers. The doctor said at my last checkup that if all his patients were like me he wouldn't have a job. So physically at least I seem fine, according to the doctors. It is just mentally I seem to get messed up at times and not sure why...

shaz
Posts: 417
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Location: Colorado, US

Re: M's Journal

Post by shaz »

Do you think the problem could be seasonal affective disorder (SAD)?

M
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:34 pm

Re: M's Journal

Post by M »

@shaz - that is possible.

1.25 million still - the market is not helping much these days. Trailing twelve month expenses still around 24k.

My job is very easy still....We will be working from home forever with flexible hours and six weeks of pto time. It is hard to quit but with a withdrawal rate of 1.9% I think I am just hoarding money now. Instead of retiring I think I will start increasing expenses in areas that may increase quality of life e.g. going to a gym, buying more electronics, travelling etc. I know this isn't what this forum is about per se, but I actually enjoy my job at the moment so until that changes I will just do whatever I feel like doing this year, and see how much we spent at the end of the year. It should be a fun experiment.

M
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:34 pm

Re: M's Journal

Post by M »

1.2 million. I have 'lost' a lot but have shoveled a lot back in also. Expenses have gone up some, closer to 30k /year now. This is mostly due to increasing food costs and eating out. With six people, food is our largest expense. I have cut back on eating out some but there really isn't any way of getting away from food inflation. Food is required to live.

I am less depressed now but still kind of...purposeless? I'm not entirely sure what I would do if I quit my job now. Somewhere along the way I went from a million ideas to working for 20 years and forgetting what I came here for.

I guess, in a way, I have always been running from things. At first it was the idea of losing my car, so I saved and paid cash for one. Then it was the idea of losing my house, so I saved and paid cash for that. Then it was the idea of losing a professional job, so I saved to go back to college. Then I figured I would keep saving in case of job loss or winding up in a bad job. Now that I'm in a good wfh job I'm not sure what I'm even saving money for. I've ran out of things to run away from, but also have nothing to run towards. I have never been on 'vacation'. I guess that is the traditional answer to salary man with some free time and too much money. Maybe I should save to buy a farm.

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