Garden Log

Fixing and making things, what tools to get and what skills to learn, ...
Gilberto de Piento
Posts: 1942
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:23 pm

Re: Garden Log

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

I've had to stop composting because there has been an explosion of rats in my area. They are in part living on composted food. The more rats there are the more trouble they cause like getting into houses.

I'd like to make a rat proof compost bin. It needs to be a very easy project, very low cost, and hold at least a half cubic meter of material.

I'm thinking about trying to find a free metal dog crate and then wrapping it in hardware cloth (metal mesh with 1/4" holes) to keep the rats out. I can use the side door of the crate to get the finished compost out and add a door to the top to drop in the scraps. Any thoughts on this plan or other ideas?

guitarplayer
Posts: 1303
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:43 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Garden Log

Post by guitarplayer »

Good luck with averting the infestation!

The best way to rid of rats from your compost pile long term is to make the compost pile uninteresting for them. In compost piles, from more common compost piles' ingredients, rats love cooked starchy foods, fat and meat. Making compost piles uninteresting can be done by eating up one's leftovers and not throwing them onto compost pile (which I am sure you do), but moreover avoiding throwing the food of carnivores to the compost. Chuck it into general waste, or go vegetarian (or better still, vegan!)

Over the last few years I had witnessed a few rat infestations of the three compost piles that were around. My compost pile which was from waste from vegan diet would always survive untouched by the rats. earthworms loved it though.

ETA: DW tells me that bread deserves a special mention - rats love it!
Last edited by guitarplayer on Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

avalok
Posts: 277
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:42 am
Location: West Midlands, UK; Walkscore 73

Re: Garden Log

Post by avalok »

It is also worth bearing in mind that they may simply use it for the warmth, if your pile gets hot enough. You can also reduce most smells by using a cover material on top. Something like straw or grass clippings that you can create a hole in to add new scraps, and then cover back over, works well.

Gilberto de Piento
Posts: 1942
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:23 pm

Re: Garden Log

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

Thanks for your thoughts on the rat issue. I only compost raw fruit and vegetable scraps and leaves. Nothing else goes in. Unfortunately I can't really cover up the fruit and vegetable scraps because leaves aren't available year round and I don't have any other material.

guitarplayer
Posts: 1303
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:43 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Garden Log

Post by guitarplayer »

So it maybe that your compost pile is rat free, unless you saw rats in it. That was at least my experience: in a relatively close proximity there were three compost sites, each with multiple compost piles where all sorts of foods were dumped, but mostly cooked leftovers and bread, and some meat. There were rats in all of them.

My compost bin was something like this, sitting on the ground. I found it for free. Not easy access but rats could get in digging underneath, but I never saw any rats there.

Gilberto de Piento
Posts: 1942
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:23 pm

Re: Garden Log

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

I have two compost bins, one a spinning drum and one very similar to the one you linked. The rats are a hole in the side of the spinning drum this summer. For a couple weeks I often saw a pair of them in it when I opened the hatch. I cleaned it out and started only putting leaves in it and the rats left. I don't use it for food scraps now.

The one like you linked to used to have the rats tunnel up from underneath into it in the winter. They would go right through frozen compost to get to the scraps I was leaving. In spring i put a metal mesh across the bottom and they haven't returned. They could easily eat through the plastic sides. Since I started seeing rats and hearing rat reports from the neighbors I stopped using this one too. I don't them to eat a hole in the side.

guitarplayer
Posts: 1303
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:43 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Garden Log

Post by guitarplayer »

Thanks that's good to know, looks like I was luck with my pile! Will keep in mind for the future.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9375
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Garden Log

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

If you don’t have a terrier, you will have to do the work of a terrier.

horsewoman
Posts: 659
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:11 am

Re: Garden Log

Post by horsewoman »

@7w5We have three dogs with lots of terrier in their pedigrees (amongst other things) and only one of them could be bothered to kill a rat, once, 10 years ago.
So we used to have 3 dogs and lots of rat traps (and had to make sure none of those dogs got their noses in the traps!). We take better care now with the chicken feed to not attract them, and our compost pile is 500 m away from our house in open territory - they are welcome to congregate there, if they want to.

theanimal
Posts: 2628
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:05 pm
Location: AK
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Re: Garden Log

Post by theanimal »

Funny. I interpreted @7's post differently, though i now think @horsewoman's response is more in line with the original intent.

@7 commented once on here (maybe in my journal?) that a multifaceted way of composting would be to have a pig and a dog. You can feed the pig your scraps and whatever the pig can't eat (meat,fish, bones, etc) you feed to the dog. The pig provides waste (which can be composted and used as fertilizer) and eventually meat, while the dog also provides protection and companionship.

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9375
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Garden Log

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I was riffing on Sepp Holzer's (guy at top of Wheaton scale for permaculture) classic line which is "If you don't have pigs, you will have to do the pigs' work." Not all dogs are ratters. A cat might do a better job. Maybe a rat snake in the compost pile would work best. In a pinch, rat snake meat is (according to the internet) supposed to be borderline edible :lol:

Anyways, this sort of problem really points out the difficulties of directly translating large scale rural solutions to small scale urban or suburban settings. Which is why devices such as this exist:



https://lomi.com/products/lomi

horsewoman
Posts: 659
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:11 am

Re: Garden Log

Post by horsewoman »

Ah, the autistic brain strikes again! Horsewoman - 40 years of taking things too literal :lol:

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9375
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Garden Log

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

@horsewoman:

More like 50-plus years of head-in-clouds bumping into the furniture emitting stream of vague babble on my part.

SouthernAlchemy
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:11 pm

Re: Garden Log

Post by SouthernAlchemy »

I've been getting things going in the garden. I have challenged myself to double the yield from last year. Last year was a disappointing 75lbs or so. I had higher hopes, but I can't count what the deer, rabbits and squirrels ate, can I? So I have a plan for that and I also changed up some scheduling to better match sun/seasonal patterns as well as account for times I know I am out of town for extended periods. But gardening is like boxing, I guess, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. I took a lot of punches last year :roll: So far I'm feeling pretty good here at the end of January :lol:

Scott 2
Posts: 2825
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:34 pm

Re: Garden Log

Post by Scott 2 »

We're making a first attempt at container gardening. Picked up supplies at home depot, including the plants. The tomato plant is not doing well. Zone 5b, planted about a week ago, miracle gro potting mix. There are drainage holes drilled in the bottom of the bucket. I don't think the plant has seen any temps below 40.

Any ideas as to what might be happening? We paid $10 for this plant!

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theanimal
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Re: Garden Log

Post by theanimal »

Are those brown leaves really dry and do they crumble into tiny bits if you touch them? How much sun are they getting, what have daytime temperatures been and how frequently are you watering them? My guess would be some type of sunburn. It's possible they haven't hardened up enough yet since you have brought them home and are getting too much direct sunlight. Worst case scenario blight. If the affected leaves are greater than 50% damaged, they probably won't come back. You can remove those ones if you like, or they'll probably just fall off eventually.

Scott 2
Posts: 2825
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:34 pm

Re: Garden Log

Post by Scott 2 »

The leaves are brown but not crunchy.

Hardening - We introduced the plant to outside over a period of several days. Bringing it back in overnight, while we waited for the weather to warm up. No idea what happened at Home Depot.

Temps upon planting were mostly 40's, some low 50's. It's been escalating this week - 70s yesterday, maybe 80s today.

I'm not sure how to quantify the sun exposure. The house shades them until around noon. We were pretty overcast the first few days. But that's changed as temps have gone up.

Watering has been by the heart, as my wife says. It rained some days, she provided some amount of water on others. I watered them this morning - 1 quart per bucket. Some sources say this could be a daily requirement?


I know very little about plants. My wife knows more, but her many thriving plants are inside. This is attempt 1 of a learn by doing experiment.

Consumer targeted solutions are absolutely on the table. We bought our way to this point - $200 of pots, plants and supplies from Home Depot. The original idea was to rent a seasonal plot from our local park district. I'm glad we started with less.

jacob
Site Admin
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Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
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Re: Garden Log

Post by jacob »

For years I've been searching yard sales, craigslist, ... for a level head rake cf the ubiquitous landscaping rake. I even considered buying a new one, but those are now either "special import prices" (I'm not paying $80 for a rake!!) or look like they'll last two hours of usage. Also considered making my own. But but ... a miracle happened: https://www.amazon.com/14-Tine-Replacem ... 0BLCW1VC1/ ($15)

Sharing the link in case anyone is looking for the same. Combined with a grub hoe, this is ideal from breaking up soil in vegetable beds. Makes for less rocks and debris than the grub hoe alone.

BTW, if anyone know the idea behind the handle attachment system LMK. There's a hole at the top but a square slot at the bottom. I just put a screw through the top. Not sure what the slot is for? Nut&bolt but for people who can't drill perpendicularly?

7Wannabe5
Posts: 9375
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: Garden Log

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

The best way to get used decent quality garden tools is to shop estate sales in particular, because the kind of thing people usually hold on to forever, but unlikely to be needed or wanted by heirs.

llorona
Posts: 444
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:44 pm
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Garden Log

Post by llorona »

Scott 2 wrote:
Sat May 06, 2023 8:28 pm
Any ideas as to what might be happening? We paid $10 for this plant!
How are your tomato plants doing now? I'd probably go with theanimal's guess of sunburn. But the soil looks dry although it's hard to tell from a pic. Have you looked underneath the leaves to see if there are any pests?

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