Early Retirement Extreme Forums

I like Derek Sivers. In this nineteen minute talk he discusses various philosophical ideas on the meaning of life.

Life it time.
Life is choice.
Life is memory.
Life is learning.

Beautiful ending.

https://sivers.org/ml

That's a good summary of a hell of a lot of research and thought from various sources. Here's a few off the top of my head:

On time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3oIiH7BLmg (See also book "Time Paradox")

On choice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO6XEQIsCoM

On mindset: http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/ ... k-mindset/ (Book is good, not great)

And the ending of course is classic existential nihilism repackaged: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_nihilism

I would have kept going: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logotherapy (Warning -- Book Club preview)

I guess it depends on what we mean by meaning. I wonder if there are forms of meaning (i.e. meaning = the results of how we live) that allow existential nihilism and logotherapy to both be right.

Ego wrote:Beautiful ending.

I couldn't disagree more.

I liked most of it though, particularly this quote "To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan, and not quite enough time."

It's just that I have a hard time with nihilism.

Gotta admit, I smiled a bit when I typed the words beautiful ending.

That's because you're a sick pup.

jennypenny wrote:That's because you're a sick pup.

My tenants here at Soylent Towers would ravenously defend me against that accusation with canes and walkers. Strangely, our staunchest supporters here act as my personal evidence that there is little meaning beyond that which I create for myself.

Oh, and I am indeed a sick pup!

Ego wrote: My tenants here at Soylent Towers

Just because a person can't see the meaning in their life doesn't mean that it's not there. And some people choose not to look because they prefer meaninglessness.

Most men can't look there without some serious adverse consequences: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ci44G8j1F0

The Elder Jennypenny with the Young Ego: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJsYKhEV6o0

Before he becomes a Christ-like figure in later life and leads a desert planet of freemen over its overlords.

jennypenny wrote: Just because a person can't see the meaning in their life doesn't mean that it's not there. And some people choose not to look because they prefer meaninglessness.

That begs two questions. Why would it be given but hidden and why would it be given to someone who wasn't also given the desire to look?

Please don't make me stick my hand in the box.

Ha! And I was expecting a Monty Python ending... being chased over a cliff by topless young women.

Don't make me have to drag out Mr. Creosote.

E, the hidden lives in the right brain of uncertainty and possibility. Or as Einstein said, "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant." Yet the servant seems to rule in our modern society. And reflects itself into nothingness. Rationality creates its own dead ends and refuses to look beyond them.

More on that from those more learned in this field: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFs9WO2B8uI

A night in the box for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvwqK2gn3S0

Derek was close, but I think I found the answer after my night in the box.

http://vimeo.com/94502406

Dragline wrote: More on that from those more learned in this field: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFs9WO2B8uI

That was good. I particularly liked the bit @10:00 with the guillotine where he says "The left hemisphere's talk is very convincing, because it shaved everything that doesn't fit with its model off and cut it out. So this particular model is entirely self consistent, largely because its made itself so."

Ego wrote:That begs two questions. Why would it be given but hidden and why would it be given to someone who wasn't also given the desire to look?

I wasn't really referring to religion or suggesting that meaning is imparted in some way. I tend more toward the belief that meaning is inherent in one's own existence. I also don't think 'meaning' is a boolean value where something either has meaning or it doesn't. There are levels with meaning.

I personally think that's why the search for meaning and happiness is such a first world problem/obsession. We've moved up Maslow's hierarchy so far that we've lost touch with the meaning that we derived from meeting the earlier levels of the hierarchy. Instead of 'moving up' through Maslow's levels, people should keep their feet firmly planted in the physiological level while they reach for higher levels to avoid 'meaning' inflation.


Ugh, I'm not making any sense, am I. I'm terrible at explaining the psycho-babble stuff.

Ego wrote:Derek was close, but I think I found the answer after my night in the box.

http://vimeo.com/94502406

jennypenny wrote:I personally think that's why the search for meaning and happiness is such a first world problem/obsession. We've moved up Maslow's hierarchy so far that we've lost touch with the meaning that we derived from meeting the earlier levels of the hierarchy. Instead of 'moving up' through Maslow's levels, people should keep their feet firmly planted in the physiological level while they reach for higher levels to avoid 'meaning' inflation.

That is f---ing brilliant. Meaning inflation! There is a book in that.

Watched video in the OP.

Was very disappointed.

He had a very shallow understanding of lots of topics and seemed to get them slightly wrong when explaining them.

That's more minor though, my big issue with it was he very much conflated two questions.

What is the meaning of life?
What is life?

He started by asking the first question, then started talking about the second question for the whole thing (by proposing very confused definitions and then glossing over ones he didn't care about), then jumped back to the first for his "conclusion."

They are two completely separate questions. We can ask what life is. We can ask what the meaning of that life is. But to jump back and forth in a manner that shows you really don't understand either... well, like I said, I was disappointed.

But I did enjoy some of the links above, so well done to ERE forum members for being stimulating!