A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Where are you and where are you going?
IlliniDave
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by IlliniDave »

Hristo Botev wrote:
Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:34 pm
I suspect my wife would tell you you are overthinking and overcomplicating it ;) If you are interested in some recommendations for "good" dietitians in your neck of the woods, DM me and I'll ask my wife if she can provide you some. She (used to be) pretty involved with the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (which has tons of its own problems, some of which I'm sure I've vented about on my own journal in the past), but as a result she has contacts across the country and I suspect she could point you in the right direction, if you're interested. That said, I'm as much of a "if they have letters after their name then you probably shouldn't trust them" as anyone (dietitians LOVE their letters after their names--I think my wife has 12), so whether a dietitian is going to walk the party line or not depends on what you mean by party line.
I'll send a DM later this evening because I am interested.

Of course I'm overthinking it and overcomplicating it--that's how I roll. :lol:

Actually, there's not a ton of thought to it. I have a book with two lists: "eat these" and "don't eat these". No countng calories, no counting macros, just let my appetite be the guide. I might appear to be over-thinking it because I hunt around for confirmation of the assertions I encounter and along the way found the topic fascinating and gleaned a top-level understanding of some relatively complicated stuff.

The nutrition party line I flee from: A calorie is a calorie. Get the bulk of your calories from carbs (which necessitates heavy sugar, grain, and legume consumption). Eat low fat and stick to processed seed oils like canola, soybeen, corn, etc. In other words, eat whatever is most profitable for Big Ag to grow and Big Food to spit out of their chemical factories. ;)

IlliniDave
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by IlliniDave »

Here's the next installment on my goofy manifesto. Some of it overlaps with the first installment, more of it overlaps with some of the intervening discussion.

For anyone interested, a list of some of the authorities who have influenced my approach includes: Sten Ekberg, Nadir Ali, Steven Gundry, Ben Bikman, Robert Lustig, David Sinclair, Mark Hyman, and Casey Means. All but one are MDs with a variety of specialties. Bikman is the exception, iirc a PhD in biochem specializing in nutrition. They all have a presence on Youtube and elsewhere on the interwebs.

iDave's Nutrition Rabbit Hole (Part II)

More on the Regimen

General/Philosophical

Gundry's regimen has a lot in common with an array of restricted carb regimens. Technically, the restriction is on sources of carbs, not necessarily the amount of carbs, but it amounts to the same thing. Once you eliminate sugars (emphasis especially on fructose), most starches/grains, and processed foods, it becomes impractical to make carbs the source of 45% to 65% of one's caloric intake (the “requirement” from the USDA). With a 2500 calorie baseline that would mean 1125-1625 calories/day from carbohydrates. That would correspond to 36-52 cups of broccoli or similar vegetables per day.

The regimen is intended to be therapeutic for people, who like me, display clear symptoms of metabolic disease, or have a number of other maladies connected to excessive inflammation related to food sensitivities, leaky gut syndrome, migrains, IBS, etc. As a result, many of the specific food restrictions don't make sense from a conventional macro nutrient perspective. The approach puts a lot of emphasis on avoiding lectins that can be problematic for some people (like gluten) as well as items problematic for liver health (like fructose) and that promote/exacerbate insulin resistance (sugars and starches). It prohibits items that can damage the microbiome/gut health (like Sucralose). It also emphasizes prebiotics, probiotics, and postbiotics.

As a side note, it's not as complicated as it sounds. All the classifications/inclusions/exclusions of foods are cataloged into an “eat this list” and a “don't eat this” list. Followers are actually discouraged from counting calories or macros. It can be tailored along the lines of a ketogenic diet, high protein diet, vegan diet, and about anything in between. In the final phase it can even approach the USDA guidelines for those in tip-top metabolic health if they chose. Speaking of phases, the overall therapeutic progression is divided into three phases.

Phases

The first phase could be called a cleanse of sorts. It is the most restrictive phase and is intended halt as many of the ongoing issues as can be addressed in a short timeframe. Mainly for those in my shoes those are: kicking off the process of lowering inflammation, lowering blood glucose, lowering insulin levels, and beginning the restoration of gut health. It can last from a few days to a handful of weeks depending on initial health condition. I opted to go with it for a few weeks.


The second phase could be thought of as the therapeutic phase. It's somewhat less restrictive in terms of foods permitted, especially after the first six weeks, but is gradually more restrictive when it comes to introduction of IF. It covers the longer processes of restoring gut health, restoring mitochondrial health, and restoring metabolic health. It lasts until the relevant biomarkers are restored to good ranges and healthy weight is achieved. Since I probably won't be working with an MD with the motivation or philosophy to proactively monitor my progress, I'll have to make a judgement call. At minimum I'll stay in this phase until I can get new labs in May. I'll make a judgement based on fasting glucose, lipid profile, ALT, AST, and blood pressure. Or alternately, if my weight drops below what I am comfortable with I'll consider transitioning to the third phase.


The third and final phase is the long-term maintenance phase, intended to be a permanent healthy regimen. By this time there typically would have been a number of personalized adjustments within the overall framework. There's not a one-size-fits-all optimal solution. Once good body weight is achieved IF is relaxed. Generically, in this phase IF is practiced M-F but not on the weekends. This is intended to cycle the body in-and-out of ketosis regularly to simultaneously maintain a good weight and provide an optimal environment for mitochondrial functioning.


The regimen encourages an active lifestyle but does put a lot of emphasis on the specifics of it. It's focus is really on the dietary aspect. A quip often repeated in the primacy of metabolic health community is, “You can't exercise your way out of a shitty diet.” At this juncture I'm proactive when it comes to the activity part. That it complements a dietary regimen like this is all well and good, but for me the activity/exercise component is driven more by a desire to have the physical capacity to do the things I want to do as deep into my golden years as possible.

The Downside of the Regimen (for me)

Gundry puts a lot of emphasis on removing harmful lectins from the diet, more so than other authorities focused on metabolic health. Lectins are proteins plants produce to deter predation by essentially poisoning any critter that decides to eat the plant. Chief among these are most “New World” plant foods—plants that humans and our pre-human ancestors did not co-evolve with, and “Old World” plants that did not enter the human diet until after agriculture appeared ~ 10K years ago. So that would include things like nearly all grains (especially whole grains), potatoes, legumes, peppers, tomatoes, squash, etc. Most people eat these things without showing any outward symptoms of malady, but Gundry's assertion is that by looking under the hood on his patients adverse effects of these foods can often be spotted in inflammation markers and such. I love nearly all the foods excluded because of potentially problematic lectins, but for now I'm going to stick with the recommendations. So alas, no lentils for now. (Oh, the humanity!)


As a side note, there is a hack to allow most aside from the seed grains back on the menu: pressure cooking. I have a few more weeks in the restrictive phase of the regimen then if I choose to I can start to slowly reintroduce some of those prohibited foods via pressure cooking. I have a little pressure cooker inbound to experiment with. But for now my level of concern for the direction of my health biases me towards just sticking with the basic plan to hopefully maximize the benefits. When I start to get evidence I've moved markedly in the right direction, I'll reconsider.


Gundry is also a little more restrictive on animal protein consumption than I like. Similar to the issue with avoiding specific lectins, I'll go along with the program for now. He recommends topping out at 8 oz of animal protein per day, and that is confined to wild-caught fish and seafood, grass fed/grass finished beef, pastured chickens, humanely raised pork, all of which are also raised without antibiotics and hormones, not fed on GMO corn, or animal byproducts. Lectins and and antibiotics fed to livestock are absorbed into the meat and can enter our bodies.


The regimen is also fairly expensive. Along with the restrictions on animal protein sources, non-GMO certified organic plant foods are emphasized. Plants that grow with an amount of stress produce substantially more polyphenols, and compounds like glyphosate and pesticides aren't great things to be consuming. Glyphosate (Roundup) is of special concern. It was originally developed as an antibiotic before it found widespread use as a herbicide. It can be absorbed when introduced into our gut, and it wreaks havoc on the microbiome.


My way of looking at the expense side of it is that I'm on the path towards having to deal with multiple chronic conditions in the out years, and managing those tends to be extraordinarily costly. If I begin burning through the out-of-pocket max (or even deductible) on a constant basis, that outlay will dwarf additional costs for better nutrition now.


This regimen will also be a little more challenging to follow during the summer while I am up at the hideout. There is only 1 grocery within 60 miles, and it is small, which might require some compromises.

On Supplements in General

The role of supplements isn't standardized in the primacy of metabolic health ranks. Some, like Gundry, recommend them. Others don't say much about them one way or the other. I don't have an aversion to them in principle, and since I consider myself to be at a serious crossroads, I've opted to proactively employ them. The idea that they only make expensive urine has been debunked to my satisfaction. How big of a difference they'll make for me (i.e., the bang-for-the-buck received) is unknown, but again, when standing on a precipice, every little bit helps. At this stage I've tended towards supplements to promote gut health (e.g., prebiotic fiber and probiotics), mitochondrial health (like melatonin, polyphenols, and postbiotics), general metabolic health (like K2 and D3, certain B vitamins), and liver protection. Some day when I have more energy I'll detail my regimen.

Towards an Overall Plan

[To be continued]

Salathor
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by Salathor »

Have you read Metabolical? That changed my entire way of thinking, about a year ago. Immediately cut out probably 90% of added sugar (still have some honey in my granola, am willing to eat cake on my birthday, etc.) and 100% of any non-whole grains other than in said birthday cakes, etc. Probably down 95% on processed (white) flours. Quit with alcohol two months ago (that change took longer).

Did you consume a lot of processed/packaged foods before your metabolic syndrome diagnosis? I'm still on a grain-heavy diet, but it's pretty much exclusively oats, wheat berries, and whole wheat flour in home made breads/biscuits now. I honestly feel way better, digestively. Probably consuming double or more the 'recommended' daily allotment of fiber now. Meat is way down, although not excluded. Beans and eggs are major protein sources.

The other thing I've done, that has really helped my junk food intake, is deciding to eat only between 8 am and 6 pm. It's not super restrictive, but it means that I don't eat anything after dinner--which 100% of the time meant junk food.

IlliniDave
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by IlliniDave »

Salathor wrote:
Tue Feb 14, 2023 7:23 pm
Have you read Metabolical? ... Did you consume a lot of processed/packaged foods before your metabolic syndrome diagnosis?
I've got the Kindle version of Metabolical on my computer but haven't read much of it yet. I'd rather get the technical information than read about who's to blame to be honest, so hopefully the later chapters are more practical. I have seen 6-8 of Lustig's lectures and podcast appearances though.

Depends on what you mean by a lot when it comes to processed food. Probably less than many, but too much wheat/grain/starch and sugar even in home-cooked stuff and whole foods like fruit. My diagnosis is a self-diagnosis, but I'm confident in it. Wheat and oats aren't part of my current regimen, but more because of potentially harmful lectins than because they wreak havoc on my insulin sensitivity, but I'd probably lay off them even if I wasn't trying to optimize gut health as "step 1".

ertyu
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by ertyu »

Out of curiosity, why not a longer-ish water fast to jumpstart this? Im sure it's something you've considered, Im simply curious of your reasons for preferring not to go that route

IlliniDave
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by IlliniDave »

ertyu wrote:
Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:49 pm
Out of curiosity, why not a longer-ish water fast to jumpstart this? Im sure it's something you've considered, Im simply curious of your reasons for preferring not to go that route
Hmm. It really wasn't something I considered, so in turn wasn't something I consciously decided against. I've never done any kind of extended fasting as part of IF. I arrived at the daily restricted eating window style of IF naturally (many years before I ever heard of the term 'intermittent fasting') and with it simply losing weight via more intelligent food choices within that framework has generally been effective and painless.

My perspective this time is a little different. In the past I always thought growing a tad overweight (I've never hit the official obese range) during the fall and over the holidays was the root problem. I thought that both because it is sort of the conventional wisdom ("you're unhealthy because you are fat"), and because markers like BP and triglycerides always improved as the weight came off. Now I've been swayed over to the school of thought that my accumulation of visceral fat is a symptom of underlying metabolic problems ("you're fat because you are unhealthy").

This time even though the "fix" is very similar (i.e., originates in the kitchen) there's a shift in focus. Rather than regulating intake in a way to lose weight, something I can do in my sleep, so to speak, this year I'm eating to restore/repair my metabolic health. Restorative/therapeutic eating should (and has to date) result in weight loss, but eating for weight loss won't necessarily restore/repair my metabolic health. A significant portion of the folks out there with chronic western ailments have "healthy" body weight. IIRC, in total numbers there are more non-obese people in the US with underlying metabolic syndrome than there are obese people with metabolic syndrome.

Eating for metabolic health isn't something I knew how to optimize last month when things got underway. So while I was out educating myself on the topic I ran into this regimen espoused by Steven Gundry (his older "Plant Paradox" program with modifications from "Keto Code") I was immediately attracted to it because of its similarity to my tried-and-true weight loss approach, including reliance on IF of the restricted daily eating window variety (18-20 hr unbroken fasting followed by 4-6 hr of feeding). The primary food restrictions overlapped with my prior technique as well (cut sugar, starch, grains, limit fruit). It seemed like a natural fit for me so I hopped on board without much further thought. Because the flow is sort of: restore gut health->restore mitochondrial health-> restore metabolic health->[improve various biomarkers], a lot more thought goes into the plant-based foods (and supplements if desired). That's really the main "modification" compared to my past attempts to eat well.

Probably a much longer answer than anticipated/or desired. :) I'll have to dig into whether there are benefits exclusive to more extended fasting periods in terms of achieving the goal of restoring metabolic health. By that I mean benefits I'm arguably not getting from the version of IF I'm employing. If there are, I'm not averse to tossing it into the tool box.

ertyu
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by ertyu »

Nah, I was just curious. I asked because in my personal opinion, extended water fasts are the best way to restore metabolic markers: you are giving your cells the absolute best opportunity to clean house there is. Also in my personal opinion, extended water fasts are a therapeutic tool rather than a weight-loss tool: any weight lost during the fast is immaterial, with respect to weight, what matters is whether any weight is kept off after the fast is complete.

What a water fast does with respect to microbiome is, it presses the hard reset button: with no food for an extended period of time, the microbiome dies off and if you refeed like you mean to go on, you will foster the development of the kinds of gut bugs you want without them having to struggle for resources with the kinds of gut bugs you'd like to kill off. In addition, the intestinal lining gets the chance to repair itself while you're giving it a break from food.

A water fast will also mop up any excess lipids in the bloodstream etc. In your shoes (desire for reset + no demands to show up at a day job) I would be water-fasting first. Note this isn't an argument that what you've chosen to do isn't the right thing to do or won't give you the results you want; it just wouldn't have been what I'd do in your shoes so I was curious about your reasoning.

IlliniDave
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by IlliniDave »

ertyu wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:46 pm
Nah, I was just curious. I asked because in my personal opinion, extended water fasts are the best way to restore metabolic markers: you are giving your cells the absolute best opportunity to clean house there is....
Okay, that's interesting. It may have been a good way to start had I considered it at the time. As it is I've been painstakingly rebuilding my gut by selective starvation of bad bugs, namely the sugar-eaters. It's very likely that I was suffering from candida overgrowth when the process started 6 weeks ago. So pulling foods that either result in a flood of glucose in my intestines (starch), a flood of half glucose/half fructose (sugar), or even worse, a flood of fructose alone (certain fruits and fructose as a sweetener), will have knocked down the yeast and companion bad bugs. At the same time going out of my way to consume the highest variety of prebiotic fiber (including some supplements) and probiotics (fermented foods and supplements) to introduce and encourage growth of good bugs, I've made some good progress enacting a changeover. I can tell by overall changes in the digestive process and in my appetite. Once my little cravings switch from my gut bugs signalling my brain: "hey how about a couple pieces of pie" to my gut bugs signalling my brain: "hey, how about a glass of the psyllium husk stuff" (that really happens to me--I start craving fiber, albeit mildly), then the daily IF cycle becomes extremely easy. The thing I like about the everyday IF is that every day I have at least 8-12 hours after processing everything consumed during my eating window available for cellular/mitochondrial repair while having a fiber- and polyphenol-fed microbiome actively making the postbiotics that signal my cells/mitochondria to shift over to cleanup and repair mode.

If I ever feel like I need a reset a longer water fast is something I would consider turning to. What are the lengths of such fasts that are known to have therapeutic benefits in your experience?

Dave
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by Dave »

I'm enjoying following along with your thoughts/experiments, @ID.

For what it's worth, my wife, her parents, and I strictly followed The Plant Paradox (TPP) for 6 weeks back in 2017. DW & I weren't having any particular issues at the time, but were iterating on a variety of plant-based/heavy diets and curious about the effects of doing keto-ish plant based, and the removal of lectins. My in-laws were both obese diebetics.

All 4 of us lost meaningful weight (beyond just the one-off water weight loss), in my case both fat and muscle mass (despite heavy strength training). In the case of my in-laws, both of their A1Cs and other markers came down enough to drop metformin intake. None of us stuck with the diet strictly after that, although we retained elements of it for a while. To this day, both of them are off metformin and have had improved metabolic markers relative to before doing TPP.

I'm complicated about TPP. I think for a subset of people (fairly sedentary, metabolic disordered, lectin-sensitive) it's a good way to go, but that it's not for everyone. My big criticism is that the protein intake recommended is very, very low. Gundry is basically riding along with Valter Longo's protein recommendations to the letter. If you agree with that (and I don't, for reasons that are way too involved to go into here) and feel good on it, that's fine. But there are a lot of people, myself included, that feel very poorly on that low of protein intake. From your comments it sounds like Gundry hasn't changed his tune about 8oz max of animal protein, but in TPP he says he really recommends people get to 2oz or less. Well, if you are eating 2oz or less of animal protein, avoiding legumes unless small amounts pressure cooked, and of soy foods only eating certain tempehs (IIRC), your protein intake is about as low as anyone ever recommends outside something like fruitarians. From that perspective, I'm not really sure about your comment above that the diet protocol (unless you were talking about a tailored TPP approach) can really be fit with a high protein diet, which may not be important or matter to you. But for my wife and I, the combination of low absolute quantity of protein, poor bioavailability of said protein (from plant sources), and poor complementary amino acid profiles given foods on the OK list didn't really work.

One remedy to this is that I wish Gundry scaled protein intake for size (precisely, lean tissue weight) and activity level/type. He gives blanket animal (i.e. protein) food oz. intake for everyone, and to me it seems absurd that a sedentary 90lb female would need as much as 180lb me who was walking 30+ miles and heavy strength training 3x per week.

My in-laws did better overall, but I wonder if they would have felt as good after they burned through excess body fat and lean tissue reserves. I got down to ~10% body fat by the end, and did not feel good at all. From ongoing experimentation I know I feel better when I eat more protein, especially animal protein, and thus for me TPP in the form recommended by the book was not a sustainable diet.

But that's just my experience, and I certainly don't think everyone will have the same - as noted above I think some people would do well on TPP. In case the above came across as too negative, I want to be clear that I appreciate Gundry's contributions in bringing to attention that certain plant foods - lectins in his case, but there's actually a lot more - are highly problematic for some people. And the novelty of a more plant-based ketogenic diet, even if I don't personally like it given the difficulty of intaking adequate protein.

Curious to see how this goes for you!

IlliniDave
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by IlliniDave »

Dave wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:23 pm

For what it's worth, my wife, her parents, and I strictly followed The Plant Paradox (TPP) for 6 weeks back in 2017. DW & I weren't having any particular issues at the time, but were iterating on a variety of plant-based/heavy diets and curious about the effects of doing keto-ish plant based, and the removal of lectins. My in-laws were both obese diebetics...
Hey Dave, thanks for the thoughts and sharing the experiences.

Fundamentally, I agree with you when it comes to protein. The regimen is essentially designed for sick people. I think part of the reason he insists on such low protein is that protein does activate insulin in the body (even with protein from non-egg animal sources 70% is processed into glucose, over 80% in plant proteins) and when faced with patients basically dying of insulin resistance I kinda grok where he's coming from. Over the longer-term he seems more focused on longevity implications when it comes to protein. Since I've self-diagnosed with insulin resistance I'm going to mostly stick with his protocol while I'm eating therapeutically. But even then I'm sort of cheating--I haven't heard him say to include fermented dairy/cheese in the 8 oz protein count so I'm liberally tossing cheese and to a lesser extent plain yogurt into the mix (all while being mindful of avoiding A1-casein, haha). That might be willful ignorance on my part relative to his intent. Since casein (A2 or A1) is digested very slowly I don't think it interferes meaningfully with my attempt to restore insulin sensitivity. I also bias towards eggs because more of the protein is utilized as protein and less converted to glucose than any other source.

Getting the cart before the horse here, but some months down the road if it appears I've substantially improved metabolic health I'll probably begin to introduce more animal-derived protein. Even though my athletic goals at this stage of my life are fairly humble, I suspect my goals in that regard are higher than most of his patients. And in the cluster of authorities preaching the treatment of insulin resistance primarily through science-based diet choices, he seems to stand out as being the strictest when it comes to protein. I'm hoping for me it's not necessary to remain on such a strict regimen.

This whole deal with the insulin resistance quest for knowledge has had me touching on the longevity crowd, and there's a lot of evidence that life span goes down as protein consumption goes up. My philosophy follows along with a quip I read somewhere (not in a context of protein)--you don't just want to add years to your life, you want to add life to your years. So that's the attitude I'm taking on protein. Maybe a few more months of this regimen will surprise me, but I generally hold up better under an active lifestyle by my standards (I'd call it modestly active relative to a lot of the folks here) when I get about a pound of meat per day. If that lowers the odds of me living beyond my 80s but means I have a more robust lifestyle through my 70s, it's a compromise I just might sign up for. And although I haven't dove into the details, there are some hacks out there to mute IGF-1 levels in the presence of higher animal protein intake.

Gundry still encourages people to ultimately winnow down to 2 oz or less of animal protein foods per day during the final phase of the diet afaik, but the stage I'm in now limits it at 8oz. Thanks for pointing out that distinction.

ertyu
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by ertyu »

strict low-carb diets actually advise staying away from dairy not for the caseine but bc lactose is a sugar. regardless - you can see how you're doing on your regimen as you practice it so far and deal with dairy if it proves necessary.

I guess one of the reasons why i prefer fasting for the original strike phase of these things is that there's no need to worry and go into minutia like that -- you just cut off everything.

As for fast length, it depends. I would be looking at an extended fast: 2-3 weeks. This is because you want this for the "clean-up" rather than the weight loss and autophagy afaik takes 4-5 days to kick in fully. Using long fasts like this isn't anything new; I believe in his book Valter Longo states that he created the "longevity diet" to give people who won't take the best option (a complete fast) an option.

I did two long fasts a while ago now. I was fairly young so I was in fairly good overall health except for being fat (no medications, nothing off on blood tests). I still got many benefits: my eyesight cleared, my back stopped aching even though I'd been pretty sedentary for the duration of the fast, body didn't "creak" when i swung my arms side to side to twist my spine, etc. The results didn't stick because I was fasting for misguided reasons: I had somehow decided that fasting would "fix" me once and for all, bodily and psychologically (seeing how hermits went off to fast and had deeply profound experiences, etc) -- and surprise, it didn't fix me. i still have a human nervous system that's essentially wired to love its dopamine, and if one could fix the neurotic reasons why one clings to excess weight with not eating for two weeks, well - we probably wouldn't have an obesity epidemic :lol:

So longer fasts work if you use them for what they actually work for - clean-up and autophagy. For a 10+ day fast, supplement with electrolytes. People recommend to do so as soon as one hits ketosis, and im sure it's good for you to do so, but in my experience one can get away with not doing it except for exceptionally long fasts. But yeah, fasts are a simpler if a but more hardcore solution. I should probably do one myself, considering, when I can take time off work.

IlliniDave
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by IlliniDave »

ertyu wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:35 pm
strict low-carb diets actually advise staying away from dairy ...

As for fast length, it depends. I would be looking at an extended fast: 2-3 weeks. This is because you want this for the "clean-up" rather than the weight loss and autophagy afaik takes 4-5 days to kick in fully. Using long fasts like this isn't anything new; I believe in his book Valter Longo states that he created the "longevity diet" to give people who won't take the best option (a complete fast) an option...
re dairy, that is partially true depending on how you define dairy. When you ferment milk (yogurt and cheese) the cultures consume lactose so you're left with primarily protein and fat. With typical cheese the whey and casein also separate and for the most part only the casein protein remains. Yogurt may depend a little on the style, but something like plain Greek full-fat yogurt has almost no carbs. Not sure about things like kefir.

4-5 days sounds like a lot to me, and 10 days - 2 weeks sounds a little extreme, tbh. This regimen tries to promote autophagy (more emphasis mitophagy and mitogenesis) on an ongoing basis by reserving a block of time each day of at least 10 or so hours when no incoming energy is being processed, and ensuring the body has the right resources to send the right signals to initiate the clean up and repair processes at the appropriate time (mainly low insulin, healthy gut bacteria, and plenty of ingested polyphenols). But it does make sense that a more extended initial period of strict fasting as a preamble might be an effective jump-start. I'm not sure I have the discipline for what you describe though. But maybe this summer I can experiment with that a little.

An increasing number of authorities will tell you that the diver behind the obesity epidemic is high levels of insulin and ultimately insulin resistance (which is in turn driven by excess sugar/fructose/starch/junk food/processed food consumption). It often takes decades of this condition before it begins to show in the typical markers (like fasting glucose levels, for example). One of the first observable signs is often weight gain, as the presence of insulin in the blood sends a signal to fat cells telling them not to release their stored energy for metabolism, and the ongoing consumption (especially "grazing") of high carbohydrate foods results in continuous excess energy being directed into fat cells . Stress is also a factor, but I get the sense that it's seen as an exacerbation rather than a primary cause. And I think it is pretty well documented that sugar is addictive. Constantly elevated insulin also crosswires the body's satiety signalling system meaning near constant hunger, more grazing, etc. A viscous cycle.

Dave
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by Dave »

Right on, sounds like a plan worth trying. Hoping it works out for you!

Definitely agree on "life to years, not years to life", if I had to choose re. protein. I believe that is a false dilemma given my own nutritional explorations, but given ethical limitations it is literally impossible to prove the long-range effects of various dietary variables.

IMO, best to do what you're doing and actually iterate and see what makes an observable difference in your life and has some basis of logic and evidence of long-term legitimacy.

IlliniDave
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by IlliniDave »

Dave wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:13 pm
Right on, sounds like a plan worth trying. Hoping it works out for you! ...
Thanks, Dave. Fortunately I've tinkered a lot with nutrition in years past and have a pretty good idea how many of the top-level variables affect me. So now it is more a matter of fine-tuning and optimizing through incorporating some new ideas and a bit more granularity.

It struck me that with all the many feedback paths, interdependencies, and inherent complexity of the system, this is maybe the only domain where I feel like I'm pushing for higher Wheaton Levels.

IlliniDave
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by IlliniDave »

February 2023 Scorecard

Rolling 12-month monthly expense < monthly annuity ratio: 92% Good
Rolling 12-month monthly expence < instantaneous monthly equivalent 3% WR ratio: 83% Good
Stash Assessment: Fair, trending down.

Stash still down around 8.5% since retirement but up a bit over 2% for year. February spending acceptable per my plan and still well below annuity income.

Nutrition and Health

iDave(2/28/2023)=iDave(2022)-17.8 lb.

I'm modestly disappointed in weight loss during February, which tapered substantially over the last half of the month resulting in an overall February average of 2.1 lb/week. Year to date I'm averaging around 2.2 lb/week. Due to running below my target reduction rate I project to come in about 5 lbs above target on appointment day. It will still be my lightest body weight since 1999, so it wouldn't qualify as a fail by any stretch.

Some non-numerical observations from the initial weeks of the new eating regimen:

-abdominal bloating (aka carb baby) is reduced
-heartburn is greatly reduced
-carb cravings nonexistent
-sleep modestly better (working on that)

Those first three are sort of expected from going on a low sugar/grain/starch regimen based on past results. They can be related to insulin resistance so having self-diagnosed myself with insulin resistance I'm hopeful I'm getting it under control.

I didn't start logging blood pressure until 2/1, and got a new meter on 2/8 because the old one appeared to be measuring too low when I calibrated using a couple other devices. Despite a little apples to oranges regarding the measurement device, comparing the first 10 days of February (20 readings) to the last 10 days of February (19 readings) changes are as follows:

-systolic ave from 118.4 (high 146) to 111.5 (high 123), -6.9 mmHg
-diastolic ave from 73.7 (high 85) to 71.5 (high 79), -2.6 mmHg

And ave resting heart rate went from 73.1 to 66.1, -7bpm

In the last ten day segment I'm one reading short, which I'll take this afternoon, so the true final numbers might change by a decimal point or two.

More important than improvements in average numbers is perhaps reductions in high side excursions. I had 0 incidents of high BP (using the strictest criteria I could find) during the last 10 days compared to 6 the first 10 days. Over the month I gained roughly 50% of the efficacy of single drug therapy with no drugs, and it may have been more if I'd started with worse hypertension similar to most who go n meds. The real joy is that BP went down for the "right" reasons.

Not sure what to attribute reduced BP to. It's probably due in part to having dropped some pounds. Increased activity is possibly a contributor too. Insulin resistance is also known to be causal to higher blood pressure so there's possibly some indication that I'm improving in that regard. Also, some of my supplements are intended to target vascular health/flexibility, which could contribute to the improvement assuming they have efficacy.

On 2/14 I deliberately broke therapeutic ketosis by eating a large handful of dried figs and some black beans. It took 10 days back on the strict regimen to return to therapeutic ketosis levels. The recovery was skewed by some higher protein days--apparently I'm still pretty sensitive to protein-derived glucose. This compares to about 7 days when I broke ketosis on 1/13. So there's little or no indication I am improving metabolic flexibility so far.

Implied V02 max from my rowing activity has improved about 46% although it is still not something to brag about.

Heading into March

My focus in March will largely be on health and fitness, although I want to get taxes filed too. March marks the beginning of getting into full swing across all facets of my health improvement plan.

The first change is a change in my probiotic supplement which started last week. I began with one month on a generic 14-strain probiotic for the purpose of general gut restoration. I have changed over to a 2-3 month regimen of a 4-species probiotic designed to focus on restoring optimal carb/sugar metabolism to treat type-II diabetes. Of course changing my gut milieu is necessary to replenish any missing or diminished species, so there will be continued emphasis on consistent consumption of a variety of prebiotics, postbiotics, polyphenols, and continued severe curbing of sugar/being careful of starches, along with the probiotic.

Because of slow recovery when I broke ketosis in February I intend to attempt staying in therapeutic ketosis for the entire month of March.

In March I intend to ramp up strength/resistance training (more hiit than traditional strength training to minimize accumulated stress/cortisol) and as the weather gets milder increase the frequency of longer walks/hikes. The walking is more for general well-being than improving physiological capability--it just feels good to get outside and move around some. The hiit rowing and strength training are intended to goose metabolism/HGH, and hopefully over a few months make the job of wrestling the yak atop the car a little less dicey.

For strength training I opted to order a set of heavy resistance bands which are due to arrive tomorrow. I chose that route for a few reasons:

-They are the option I can most fully exploit in the spaces I have available to work in.
-They are easily transported to the cabin and used there over the summer
-They apparently allow for some bio-hacking that free weights don't
-They are apparently a little better than weights for maintaining flexibility and preserving joints

I'm also still considering a suspension training system. I don't know if they are complementary enough when added to use of bands to justify the additional expense (bit more pricey than the bands).

I'm going to keep my nutrition very similar to what it has been. I should be in full swing of the therapeutic phase of the regimen so I don't want to experiment too much with adding back potentially risky foods. Emphasis will stay on following Robert Lustig's mantra: Protect the liver, feed the gut. It's sort of odd giving more priority to feeding bacteria than feeding myself, but here I am doing it.

Other than that, not a whole lot to talk about. In my spare time I'm starting to think about the summer up at the hideout. I probably won't take much action on that front until April/May. For now I'm preparing myself to most fully exploit the opportunities the summer will provide. And looking forward to the ebbing of winter so I can more readily start adding some casual hikes to the activity roster, and maybe get the yak on the water a few times prior to heading north.

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Ego
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by Ego »

Reading with great interest. Nice work! Congratulations.

We have both bands and a suspension trainer. I find the trainer more useful. There are generic versions that lack the overbuilt durability of name-brand but work just fine. https://www.amazon.com/Resistance-Train ... 0BN7JLJ85/

Scott 2
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by Scott 2 »

You must be feeling the improvement in v02 max. That's a dramatic jump. Great to see progress.

Even your before blood pressure readings look pretty good. I've found the number varies day to day and is very sensitive to measurement conditions. My lowest readings correlate with feeling poorly, just dragging all day, like my body never fully turns on.

I found the biggest reductions in resting heart rate came with increased volume on lower intensity activity. My RHR is 5-10bpm lower if I've been in a caloric deficit vs. surplus. And taking the reading after laying for awhile usually drops it by 5-10bpm. This is one of my more extreme measures. While high scores are bad, I've not seen evidence there's benefit to a very low score.


With strength training, I think bands are a good starting point, but there's always a place for more toys.

When I'm picking strength exercises, I consider the strength curve of my body vs. the resistance curve of the equipment. Some movements are stronger at the top (ie a squat), while others are weaker (ie a chin-up).

Bands provide a linearly increasing resistance. They'll be much harder at full stretch than when minimally stretched. That could be good for a squat, but counter-productive for a chin-up. Something like a dumbbell provides a constant resistance, assuming the same line of pull against gravity.

Line of pull is an important consideration when thinking about the resistance curve. Example - Stand on a resistance band and do a bicep curl. Now do that same movement with the band anchored at chest level, arms parallel to the ground. They'll feel much different.

So I like dumbbells for some stuff, bands for others, body weight for others.

With my joints having some miles, I also find it very helpful to have options. Maybe my shoulders aren't digging a dumbbell bench press today, but they'll be totally fine with a push-up on the suspension trainer. Or maybe it's enough to slightly incline the bench press.

Maybe a squat will make my knee angry today, but a step-up feels okay. Or maybe squatting to a box is enough to avoid whatever is cranky. Thinking in terms of strength and resistance curves, lets me manipulate the stimulus around whatever my body is into. My experience has been this allows training while hurt and avoids turning hurt into injured. If something feels bad, I'll do something else. I never gut it out anymore.

IlliniDave
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by IlliniDave »

Ego wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2023 8:42 am
Reading with great interest. Nice work! Congratulations.

We have both bands and a suspension trainer. I find the trainer more useful. There are generic versions that lack the overbuilt durability of name-brand but work just fine. https://www.amazon.com/Resistance-Train ... 0BN7JLJ85/
Thanks, Ego. If I do decide to add a suspension system that one looks like a good place to start--if I don't like it or need to upgrade, not a lot of sunk cost in it.

Any word on how you're friend's wife is doing? Curious because we are likely battling the same fundamental underlying problem. Guys that write books report on a lot of their patients that have good outcome retooling lifestyle, but an ordinary person/couple doing it on their own is more encouraging.

IlliniDave
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by IlliniDave »

Scott 2 wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:48 am
You must be feeling the improvement in v02 max. That's a dramatic jump. Great to see progress...
Hey Scott. Thanks. Lots to unpack there.

Some of the VO2 max gain is probably training my lazy meat system it can push itself harder than it wants, but yeah, I'm pretty pleased with it, especially since it came a lot more from the hiit route than slogging through long cardio workouts 5-6 days a week.

I wish I'd started taking BP reading right off rather than starting after a month on the program. Even the starting average in the data I have is okay, those excusrions were starting to get into "need to start doing something about this" territory even from authorities for whom drugs are always the very last resort. The classification system I'm scoring against I think came from the AHA, and IMO was clearly scaled with the interests of drug companies in mind. Any systolic over 120 is "elevated" and over 130 is "high" (Grade 1 hypertension). Any diastolic over 80 is also "high".

I don't know of any specific benefits to lowering heart rate either. Indirectly it's a sign of having a stronger heart and being in better physical condition, which is what I'm using it as a metric for along with V02 max. I get it for free when I take my BP so I log it. It's also somewhat variable for me along with the pressure numbers. In my case RHR tends to be a little higher in afternoons when I've worked out in the morning. Not a lot of rhyme or reason to variations in pressure that I've been able to decipher.

One of the appeals of bands to me is the potential for different "lines of pull" and the variety that adds. I'll have to check it out for myself, but I've heard an argument that you can recruit a higher percentage of your strength for the primary motion with bands. Apparently you body senses the potential for imbalance with a weight and holds back some reserve capacity for balancing. Of course having strong stabilization is important too for doing things like wrestling kayaks. But having variety in how to approach muscle groups is a big deal to circumvent the aches and pains of getting older, as you pointed out.

I have a few dumbbells, will probably pick up a medium size kettlebell, and have plenty of floor space for body weight moves/calisthenics. (still haven't gotten masochistic enough to start doing burpees though) So I don't think I'll ever be all bands all the time. But I opted not to get an Oly bar, a rack, bunch of plates, etc. Mostly because I just can't go overhead with a loaded barbell due to insufficient clearance. I can go overhead with bands if I'm careful, and overhead strength is one of my short-term priorities.

I took a little specialty seminar back in Crossfit centered on pull ups and doing things with rings. One thing they had us doing was band assisted pullups to really work that last third of the movement (a heavy band does most of the work prior to that). We also used to do presses with bands in a power lifting class I took once a week. IIRC ir was the same principle, just to build some extra power for that last little bit of the lift. But mostly my experience with bands has been for stretching, so for a time at least the bands should pose a challenge that's a little fun because it is new.

I'm with you on not gutting it out any more--there's increasing evidence that not only is that an inefficient way of progressing, it's often harmful. The Bulletproof guy, Dave Asprey, has a new book out I've been consuming today called Smarter, not Harder. I haven't got to the meat yet but apparently he thinks he's found a new paradigm that sort of distills hiit to it's logical extreme. Maybe it's a bunch of woo, but anything that can potentially help me improve without taking a physiological beating is worth considering.

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Ego
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Re: A Journey of Mindfulness--the Remaking of Life in Midstream.

Post by Ego »

IlliniDave wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:33 pm
Any word on how you're friend's wife is doing?
They were due to leave for Switzerland last week so I don't expect to see him again until late summer or fall. They make the rounds: SoCal > Switzerland for skiing > Jersey for 181 days for the tax benefits. Not a bad life.

I've been doing HIIT classes on a Pelaton bike at the gym lately and I've noticed that a few of the instructors are wearing the monitors. Not sure if they are diabetic or are using them as a training tool. I have my eyes peeled for one for myself and will let you know how it goes if I get one.

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