jacob wrote:Getting back to the OP question, many status symbols are covert/only known to a specific socioeconomic target group.
So, what is the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd? We obviously need one...
saving-10-years wrote:
plantingourpennies wrote:
So, what is the status symbol for the FI/ERE crowd? We obviously need one...
Hm. Sound like its an obtained-for-free tote bag with 'five a day' on it. Perhaps bonus status points for evidence of nifty mending or handmade modification?
Is it just the 'old' money type of status symbol? A quality watch, but one that's older and obviously handed down? Or is it more frugal oriented? Looking around my office, I use a free calendar I get from my church every year and keep my paper clips and such in old sour cream containers. That kind of thing.
Maybe status in the ERE realm is more like the minimalist hipster type of status. Look at how little resources I need and how little stuff I own. It may also be owning buy-it-for-life items which maintain their resale value as well as making cool stuff yourself that you cannot even buy in stores (food as well other household items). Probably health is a big marker of status, too. All of these things usually save money.
If I look to myself, I don't think I feel special if I drive our, ride my bike, show our house etc. All my clothes are well, just plain. My collection of tools is above average, but not really a status symbol to me.
Ehm, nothing I have is really outstanding/special and feel like a status symbol.
The spreadsheet is nice, but I don't show it to others, so no status symbol either.
I concur with C40, ERE does not have a specific status symbol, but it shows in freedom
A good friend who is neck deep in the status-symbol world told me that he went up to his writing attic to get some writing done (his dream) but it took him hours to clear a path to his desk. He said he dreamed of my lifestyle where he had only enough to fit in the smallest storage space available.
Our status symbol is not what we have but what we don't.
The following list is not normative, but merely a few things I've observed. If we define status symbols as something you have/are that impresses others, then...
... in terms of what ERE can use a status symbols, here goes:
1) The middle class is almost exclusively impressed by extended (international) travel and nice houses. Everything else (consumer stuff) they can and will buy on credit (and you, as ERE, should not compete with consumers on iPhone version numbers), but most can't afford a nice house (owning it, not mortgaging it) and they don't have the time to spend more than a week or two travelling before going back to work.
Example:
Not cool: RVing in the bay area having the rent paid by a portfolio and practising sports 5 times per week.
Very cool: Exchanging portfolio for a house, renting it out, and going to third world countries for months at a time.
Few people understand investing and doing sports as opposed to watching it. Most understanding houses and travel. I wonder whether I would have been a more popular blogger [in the mainstream] had I done the latter ;-P
However, be very careful about saying how much you spend. The middle class see a direct correlation between spending level and standard of living. It is inconceivable to them that someone would have the skill to stretch dollars much further than them. In fact, such a skill would bestow anti-status---the whole frugality=struggle idea.
2) The ERE class.
This is probably just me, but I always look at people's SWR when I gauge their financial accomplishments. A second factor is savings rate though that doesn't impress me as much unless it comes from a lower income range, e.g. to me having an 80% savings rate on 150k is not nearly as impressive as having a 75% savings rate on $40k. It's hard to think of a specific symbol beyond this because people use so many methods. Even SWR is useless for those who have multiple passive income streams or the ability to make money on demand with not much effort.
However, the ability to substitute competence for spending is the ability I admire the most. Figuring out great/alternative solutions to buying. That's hard to display in a single symbol though.
3) The wealthy class seems mostly impressed by what you can do and who you know. For example, making your own dovetailed cabinets. The middle class can't afford such furniture and thus have no idea what a dovetail is. The wealthy class knows but they typically have to buy it for thousands of dollars. The fact that you can make it gives you a certain status. The way to understand this is that the wealthy likely own everything that can be bought for money. They can, however, not buy skill for money. Similarly, being a nationally ranked chess player, very well read, PhD'ed, college football player, etc. works. Competently doing (or even having done) beats dumb buying or watching. And they know it. You can have all the money in the world, but that will only get you as close as ringside seats in the arena. It won't actually get you into the ring.
Also, if you know, for whatever reason, a significant number of VIPs, e.g. a famous actor, the minister of some country, authors, business tycoons, ... again, that's more or less the same thing. Something that can't be bought for money.
Very curiously, the typical middle class person is not impressed by such things. They are seen as quaint, strange, nerdy, ...
Another trait that impresses the wealthy class that I think also translates to the ERE class is quick thinking and decision making. Knowing your own mind, and then having a lifestyle that backs it up, is important. If you mention at a party that you're looking for a certain kind of used car, and then that person calls you a month later to say that they know someone selling a car like that, if you can say yes right away and come up with the cash, that's impressive to those people. They don't want to hear that you need to think about it, or that it will take some time to come up with the cash, etc.
Similarly, the ERE crowd impresses me when they've thought through their plan and saved enough money to have the financial flexibility to take advantage of opportunities that pop up. It doesn't really matter to me what it is--new job offer, travel opportunity, real estate, a cool project. I'm most impressed by the ERE people who can--and do--jump at opportunities that present themselves.
The biggest status symbol for most is the voluntary absence of a job at a young age, especially when coupled with the absence of money concerns, and the freedom that implies. Taken to the distasteful end of the spectrum, constant updates of your fun activities and passive income posted to social media or texted to friends during normal working hours could be the ERE equivalent of a gaudy bag or sports car.
When I retired I used to catch crap and concern (a fine mixture, really) from certain "friends and family" complainypants about whether we were "struggling and not being all the consumers we could be now that I was a stay at home husband".
After I posted dividend income (each and every payout would be announced in the following manner "PFE and T just paid the rent", "JNJ paid the electricity") for one month on facebook, I didn't hear any more complaints. At all.
If war is what you want ...
Distateful as it is, I actually think that such a strategy would do absolute wonders in the blogging world (much better than eating lentils in grad school or living in an RV) although I agree that it wouldn't be very considerate bombarding your friends with it. (Kinda like those pictures of people's restaurant meals, BLARGH )
Wristwatch: I never liked the feeling of anything around my wrist (or fingers or anything jewelry-like.) They just tend to snag on things and scratch things. My cheap cell phone keeps time just fine.
Car: My 17 year old Buick gets me from point A to point B safely. I figure a couple years worth of insurance payments on a new/expensive car would by far exceed the amount I paid for my used Buick (repairs included!)
Bags: I did splurge here. I own three bags (one backpack-swig, one laptop messenger bag, one eula messenger bag) all of which are timbuk2 bags that I customized myself so that they are exactly what I wanted. I've had all 3 for several years. I use all 3 of them on a regular basis. Probably spent $200 total for all 3 bags.
My "best" status symbols are probably the paid off condo I live in, and the paid off rental condo. My brokerage account is also a pretty good status symbol, although I don't often get the opportunity to flaunt it in public
Tyler9000 wrote:Taken to the distasteful end of the spectrum, constant updates of your fun activities and passive income posted to social media or texted to friends during normal working hours could be the ERE equivalent of a gaudy bag or sports car.
For me, that was texting a friend about catching a chrome steelhead out of the backyard 15 minutes after arriving at the other house...
It's all in good fun, though, as he just hasn't yet found his retirement cabin and his wife wouldn't want to live there full-time anyway. They've been able to retire for about 5 years now and it was only last year that he got permission to do so from her.
I've always looked at skills as status.In high school and college, I ran track. The fastest guy on the team or the conference had the most status. I've since taken up competitive bowling, and the best bowlers have the most status.
I've tried my hand at woodworking and beer brewing, and the guys who are good at that, have real status in world.
In fact, that's one of the first things that pointed me to ERE. I didn't see anything that could be bought as a real status symbol, nor did I see job titles or salaries as status symbols. If it wasn't a skill it wasn't a accomplishment in my mind.
So that being said, my personal best running times and the races I've won as well as my best scores in bowling and the tournaments I've won serve as status symbols in my little world. I'm happy with that.
As a physical status symbol... perhaps the most tired looking old commuter bike (that is in perfect mechanical condition, of course) or an old, efficient, sound car.
Probably most things that are well worn, quality and in good repair.
Things I'm proud of around frugal people are my caravan, my bike(though its pretty fancy) and a really productive garden, or my phone (old flip phone, and it can't do pictures or internet).
Or my grain grinder... if someone gets excited when they see it they're probably pretty cool.
Similar to what Jacob said regarding SWR, if I had to name the status symbol in the ERE crowd, I would say it's low annual spending. At least, that's what impresses me most. Seems like the best indicator of likelihood to achieve ERE, skill set, degree of freedom, etc. SWR is better, for those who've ERE'd--I just don't want to admit I'm pretty low-status in ERE terms.
I don't believe there is a physical status symbol for ERE. That seems to be kind of the point.
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