3-D printers

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Sclass
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by Sclass » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:21 pm

I watched the you tube vid about the guy using 3d printing to make an AR lower. He went to a special job shop that had a very expensive looking printer that didn't shoot the cheesy hot glue ABS that is commonly found in 3d printers.

I'm not sure if it was high strength, high temperature or the ability to inject dissolvable support matrix that made him outsource the fab, but it may have been all of the above.

The zip guns people are printing look like ...well, zip guns. You can do just as well with some conventional tools and pipe from ACE hardware. Check out the Bloomberg article on Egyptian zip guns. Simple single action break barrel pistols. Ahhhh, but you don't need fab skills to print it. I guess that makes it another deal all together. The fear is that anybody who can click print can make a zip gun.

Again I think it is hype. Has anyone seen something like a Glock 17 printed? On a Makerbot? I'd think the stress on the frame, slide and trigger mechanism is just too much for low temperature ABS. Not to mention the dimensional tolerancing requirements. I guess I better do a quick search for printed guns before I run my mouth anymore...these things have a tendency to improve over time.

workathome
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by workathome » Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:10 pm

I agree, it is hype. A combination of two things 1) You've always been able to legally make your own gun in the US as long as you are legally allowed to be a gun owner and keep it for personal use only. You can already do this with a CNC machine or a drill press. This isn't new, and 2) Currently the printed parts are still too fragile.

However, it makes great media fodder. Something like "man prints gun in library", even if it was completely useless would get a lot of attention.

anomie
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by anomie » Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:54 am

"Man educates self for free in library" is even more revolutionary, but much less flashy headline.

Librarians are some of my favorite people. Glad they are trying to stay relevant.

Seneca
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by Seneca » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:09 pm

Sclass wrote:...The zip guns people are printing look like ...well, zip guns. You can do just as well with some conventional tools and pipe from ACE hardware. Check out the Bloomberg article on Egyptian zip guns. Simple single action break barrel pistols. Ahhhh, but you don't need fab skills to print it. I guess that makes it another deal all together. The fear is that anybody who can click print can make a zip gun.

Again I think it is hype....

...I watched the you tube vid about the guy using 3d printing to make an AR lower. He went to a special job shop that had a very expensive looking printer that didn't shoot the cheesy hot glue ABS that is commonly found in 3d printers....
Actually, the point of the printed gun stuff has been to pick a legal fight. It's related to gun rights, freedom of printing, IP etc etc. A VERY interesting topic, and one that has huge implications for 3D printing. The guy that printed the working firearm, the Liberator, is a law student. Their site-

http://defdist.org/about-us/

Is restricting printing of an AR or a 30round mag at your local library, infringing on the first amendment as well as second? Is that restriction the least invasive way to ensure public safety? We don't know.

This situation makes the iTunes DRM discussion child's play in comparison.
Last edited by Seneca on Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

vivacious
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by vivacious » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:15 pm

Yes I would think you would have to limit the size of your magazine. Just because you printed it yourself doesn't mean you can break laws. And most likely it wasn't even "yourself" it was using someone else's program.

It's like speech. Speech is easier than ever. Anyone can have a blog etc. That doesn't mean you can threaten the president. Some CIA guys showed up at someone's house the other day because he did something like that online.

jennypenny
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by jennypenny » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:27 pm

I thought about this thread the other day when I went to buy cold medicine of all things. I had to show my driver's license because it contained sudafed. I could see the raw materials for 3-D printing being limited or tracked at some point. It might be a way around the free speech issue. (I'm not saying I want a way around it, just making an observation.)

Seneca
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by Seneca » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:42 pm

vivacious wrote:Yes I would think you would have to limit the size of your magazine. Just because you printed it yourself doesn't mean you can break laws. And most likely it wasn't even "yourself" it was using someone else's program.

It's like speech. Speech is easier than ever. Anyone can have a blog etc. That doesn't mean you can threaten the president. Some CIA guys showed up at someone's house the other day because he did something like that online.
Owning a firearm means you intend to shoot, like owning a car means you intend to drive. Simply owning them does not convey intent to harm, though they both are capable of it.

workathome
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by workathome » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:29 pm

@vivacious - Seneca wasn't writing about limiting magazine sizes, but limiting the printing of any magazine at a library.

Also, there are no nation-wide laws limiting magazine size. You could make a billion-round magazine if it were possible in the majority of US states.

Sclass
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by Sclass » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:59 pm

@seneca you got that right, it is trying to pick a political fight. Just like a guy I saw walking down a busy street with his dog in Cupertino CA (three blocks from Apple) with a full holstered auto. It was about open carry rules.

henrik
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by henrik » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:53 am

The Economist: 3D Printing Scales Up
"Digital manufacturing: There is a lot of hype around 3D printing. But it is fast becoming integrated with mainstream manufacturing"

anomie
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by anomie » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:32 pm

interesting observation of how corporate america is using 3d printers now ..
In the old days, explained Iorio, when G.E. wanted to build a jet engine part, a designer would have to design the product, then G.E. would have to build the machine tools to make a prototype of that part, which could take up to a year, and then it would manufacture the part and test it, with each test iteration taking a few months. The whole process, said Iorio, often took “two years from when you first had the idea for some of our complex components.”

Today, said Iorio, engineers using three-dimensional, computer-aided design software now design the part on a computer screen. Then they transmit it to a 3-D printer, which is filled with a fine metal powder and a laser device that literally builds or “prints,” the piece out of the metal powder before your eyes, to the exact specifications. Then, you immediately test it — four, five, six times in a day — and when it is just right you have your new part. To be sure, some complex parts require more time, but this is the future. That’s what she means by complexity is free.

“The feedback loop is so short now,” explained Iorio, that “in a couple days you can have a concept, the design of the part, you get it made, you get it back and test whether it is valid” and “within a week you have it produced. ... It is getting us both better performance and speed.”
source:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/15/opini ... -free.html

... and please read some of the comments of this aricle for fascinating dissenting perspective on the larger article's points about global corporate presence ...

vivacious
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by vivacious » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:00 pm

workathome wrote:@vivacious - Seneca wasn't writing about limiting magazine sizes, but limiting the printing of any magazine at a library.

Also, there are no nation-wide laws limiting magazine size. You could make a billion-round magazine if it were possible in the majority of US states.

No. The way he said "30round mag" clearly made it sound like he was talking about the size of the clip. In some states the limits range from about 7 to 20. That seemed to be the implication.

And I traced it out to its conclusion. Just because you can do something doesn't make it legal.


You can also note that free speech isn't a free for all. You can't yell "fire" in a movie theater. You can't threaten the president. You can't get porn at the library usually even online. Etc.

JohnnyH
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by JohnnyH » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:19 pm

So sick of the 3d gun articles. You can make a [much better, re-usable] gun out of a pipe and a nail...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHNeD5FXIFI

LOL, some genius control freak should require background checks for all plumbing pipes!
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/05/ ... -gun-test/
vivacious wrote:And I traced it out to its conclusion. Just because you can do something doesn't make it legal.

You can also note that free speech isn't a free for all. You can't yell "fire" in a movie theater. You can't threaten the president. You can't get porn at the library usually even online. Etc.
Just because something is illegal doesn't mean you can't, or shouldn't, do it... Good citizens have been shirking and defying bad laws since before Hammurabi.

Read the history of the "yell fire" argument:
http://civil-liberties.yoexpert.com/civ ... 19421.html
LOL, the SCOTUS ruled that handing out flyers urging people to resist conscription to WWI was equal to yelling fire in a theater... Still like this argument and trust TPTB?

Information wants to be free, and in the end it will be... Control freaks like senator Yee are essentially embarrassing themselves and outing themselves as short sighted fools; holding up a stop sign to an oncoming avalanche.

vivacious
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by vivacious » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:49 pm

JohnnyH wrote:
Just because something is illegal doesn't mean you can't, or shouldn't, do it... Good citizens have been shirking and defying bad laws since before Hammurabi.
...
Information wants to be free, and in the end it will be... Control freaks like senator Yee are essentially embarrassing themselves and outing themselves as short sighted fools; holding up a stop sign to an oncoming avalanche.

I definitely agree that information should be free. I absolutely don't think it should be a free for all though, and that's not what that means. There are various limits on the way speech is used. That has nothing to do with suppressing speech. Shouting fire can cause "imminent lawless action," which would still be illegal. It's just an anecdote which generally is understood to mean doing something beyond the guarantees of free speech and was one of a few examples I gave.

I would agree with standing up to bad laws. Also victimless crimes, etc.

This is almost going in the territory of making a business unavailable to black people or having smoking, just because it's yours.

It doesn't work like that.

JohnnyH
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by JohnnyH » Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:13 pm

vivacious wrote:I definitely agree that information should be free. I absolutely don't think it should be a free for all though, and that's not what that means.
How would you possibly control who has access without causing more harm than good?
vivacious wrote:There are various limits on the way speech is used. That has nothing to do with suppressing speech. Shouting fire can cause "imminent lawless action," which would still be illegal. It's just an anecdote which generally is understood to mean doing something beyond the guarantees of free speech and was one of a few examples I gave.
No one ever did shout fire... The SCOTUS said that protesting the war was the same, that is literally where the anecdote came from... I think it's obvious that protesting war is absolutely not beyond the guarantees of free speech and the SCOTUS caved to political pressure failing the Constitution.
vivacious wrote:This is almost going in the territory of making a business unavailable to black people or having smoking, just because it's yours.
Can you elaborate? I do not see the connection.

vivacious
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by vivacious » Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:34 pm

JohnnyH wrote:
vivacious wrote:I definitely agree that information should be free. I absolutely don't think it should be a free for all though, and that's not what that means.
How would you possibly control who has access without causing more harm than good?
You wouldn't. But if someone commits a crime with a gun they printed that legally shouldn't exist, it's an extra charge against them. Something like that.
JohnnyH wrote:
vivacious wrote:There are various limits on the way speech is used. That has nothing to do with suppressing speech. Shouting fire can cause "imminent lawless action," which would still be illegal. It's just an anecdote which generally is understood to mean doing something beyond the guarantees of free speech and was one of a few examples I gave.
No one ever did shout fire... The SCOTUS said that protesting the war was the same, that is literally where the anecdote came from... I think it's obvious that protesting war is absolutely not beyond the guarantees of free speech and the SCOTUS caved to political pressure failing the Constitution.
It would be wrong to limit opposition to a war. That wasn't the right decision. The point is, "freedom of speech" doesn't mean you can say and do whatever you want at any time. It doesn't guarantee unbridled chaos. There are some basic guidelines built into it.

JohnnyH wrote:
vivacious wrote:This is almost going in the territory of making a business unavailable to black people or having smoking, just because it's yours.
Can you elaborate? I do not see the connection.
That wasn't meant to be taken all that seriously. But if someone builds a restaurant, some of those people in the past have said they have the right to refuse service to black people or to be a smoking place. In a somewhat similar way, someone who built their own gun with a 3-D printer could say that it's theirs and they built it themselves. That's fine and well but it couldn't circumvent existing laws.

anomie
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by anomie » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:17 am

IP 'piracy' and 'bioprinting' topics discussed here:


"3D printing: Supply chain gains but IP, bioprinting risks loom"
http://www.zdnet.com/3d-printing-supply ... 000021639/


Image

anomie
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by anomie » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:06 pm

The future is here - a food replicator for foodies! ....
Designed for Healthy Eating: Foodini - a 3D Food Printer
by Natural Machines

The first 3D food printer kitchen appliance creating fresh savory and sweet dishes. Foodini - changing the way the world prepares food.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/45 ... -food-prin

Sclass
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by Sclass » Sat May 18, 2019 12:09 am

Hey, I've been thinking about getting into 3d printing for years. Well, I finally pulled the trigger. I was surfing around YouTube and I noticed there were some really good printers out there released in the last couple of years. The price has really come down for good quality printers. Four years ago my library bought a $5000 printer that made crude looking prints that had mushy detail and all kinds of stringiness. They also had this gatekeeper guy who basically hogged the printer up for his own personal use because nobody could get through all his training classes. Back then you could have bought a junky DIY printer for $300 but it made mushy crude prints.

Now I went over to Amazon and bought a Creality Ender 3 Pro for $229 (incl shipping and tax) with a 1 Kg spool of PLA filament for $25. The Ender is capable of making good quality prints. I almost got the Ender 3 economy model for $179. This is insane! What has happened in this area to get price this low? It seems to be a confluence of Chinese manufacturing and open source sw and hw design.

Made on an Ender 3. Does that look like it was made on a $200 printer? The bottom line is this stuff has suddenly gotten much cheaper. The quality of the prints is way up. Four years ago a $200 printer running Arduino HW would have made trash. This is very different. It got my attention.

Image

I had to assemble my partially assembled Creality Ender 3 Pro. Videos online helped. I think this is approachable for anyone with average mechanical skills. They provide all the tools and full color instructions. No words, just images of the assembly. There are a bunch of fiddly adjustments to the gantry but the videos on youtube show you all the ins and outs.

My printer. First design in 3d. Air vent for my 1959 Cadillac Air Conditioner. Pretty much unavailable part. Software is Tinkercad. I learned this in a few hours using YouTube. Sliced (CAM profiles) in Cura 3d. Both free resources.

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Ego
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Re: 3-D printers

Post by Ego » Sat May 18, 2019 1:53 am

Wow! You can probably sell one air vent and recoup the cost of the printer.

Zero inventory cost. Print on demand. What a great business model.

My head is spinning with ideas for other unobtainable parts. It is also a good way to beat the designed-to-fail model.

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