BIFL Car?

[jennypenny]

I own an E150 V8 conversion van. It's 11yo with 92K miles on it. I planned on keeping it going until my youngest went to college, and then I assumed I'd need something newer. Yesterday I started to wonder why I was assuming that. I love my van. If I take really good care of it, there's no reason to think I couldn't keep it going forever, right? Do any of you have cars that you plan on keeping forever? Am I foolish to think I could do this?

[Chad]

Forever is probably unreasonable, but longer than 11 years seems fine. I finally ditched my old Cherokee after 12 years and 160k miles because major issues were increasing from once a 1-2 year frequency to less than a year. While, it would have been cheaper to just fix the old vehicle, I grew tired of the unreliability and the danger of not having AC and losing control of my windows in a DC summer (lost the AC a few years ago and never go it fixed and the windows would go out every 3-4 months).

[rube]

1: regulations might change. For instance, cars of certain make / age are now longer allowed in some European cities due to the pollution they cause.
Something like this concerning safety requirements could als happen.

2: it might not be economical wise to use/repair old cars at a certain point.

Apart from that, why not?

[JohnnyH]

I'm pretty much counting on this... I cannot speak to "new" cars, but older cars can generally be kept going forever. There's a 1969 Ford truck that has been in my family since it was purchased new in 1968, it's on its second engine, but it is in great shape, and worth more much than "new" 10 year old equivalents.

I have a 38 year old GM 350 that has over 200k and is still incredibly reliable... It weighs 4600 lbs and can get 15 mpg... IMO, new cars got so ridiculously complex due to luxury features (power anything, desperately seeking "innovation" when not needed), government regulations (worthless emissions control), planned obsolescence, rise of plastics over metals in manufacturing.

vs


Dropping a new engine ($1k-3k) in these simple old cars is about a long weekend, and you're good for another 200-300k... Keep up on your maintenance and constantly fight the worst enemy; rust.

In the American west, there would be riots if politicians attempted to outlaw/destroy old cars... Not saying it's impossible, but certainly much more difficult than it would be in Europe.

[Ego]

Emissions (smog) and an unhealthy attachment were the reason we had to get rid of our VW campervan.

[chenda]

I think classic cars are normally except from modern emission standards.

[Ego]

Jenny's isn't a classic (except to her). In California pre-1975 cars that are not gross polluters are exempt. Mine was a 78. Every state is different.

[jennypenny]

Hey, it will qualify soon in Pennsylvania!

DEFINITION OF ANTIQUE AND CLASSIC MOTOR VEHICLES
Antique Motor Vehicle - A motor vehicle, but not a reproduction thereof, manufactured more than 25 years
prior to the current year, which has been maintained in or restored to a condition, which is substantially in
conformance with manufacturer specifications.

Classic Motor Vehicle - A motor vehicle, but not a reproduction thereof, manufactured at least 15 years prior
to the current year, which has been maintained in or restored to a condition, which is substantially in
conformity with manufacturer specifications and appearance. Any classic motor vehicle registered under
Section 1340 (relating to antique, classic and collectible plates) on the effective date of the amendment to this definition, which fails to qualify as a classic motor vehicle pursuant to these provisions may retain such classic registration unless another type of registration is applied for and issued for the vehicle.

INSPECTION
Classic vehicles are subject to an annual vehicle safety inspection. Antique vehicles operated exclusively
between sunrise and sunset are exempt from the normal lighting requirements of the Pennsylvania Vehicle
Code, but must have their original lighting equipment. Antique vehicles are not subject to the annual vehicle
safety inspection. Antique and classic vehicles are not subject to emissions inspection.

[Ego]

Hey, it will qualify soon in Pennsylvania!

DEFINITION OF ANTIQUE AND CLASSIC MOTOR VEHICLES
Antique Motor Vehicle - A motor vehicle, but not a reproduction thereof, manufactured more than 25 years
prior to the current year, which has been maintained in or restored to a condition, which is substantially in
conformance with manufacturer specifications.

Maybe I remembers incorrectly but I seem to remember you telling a story about how you repaired a major dent with a sledge hammer.... or something like that.

[jennypenny]

It was a regular hammer and a Sharpie that was the same color as the bumper...

Dang, I'll have to get that fixed properly, won't I

[jennypenny]

Ugh, and I superglued a mirror back on...

Looks like I have some repair work to do.

[KevinW]

Yes, I have a 2005 Subaru Legacy Outback that I intend to be the last car we ever buy. I hope that we will switch to being car-free within 10 years, and will sell the Subaru at that point. But if we're still car-dependent I plan on keeping the car going as long as possible. I picked that car because they are known to be durable, there is a big Subaru aftermarket and online community due to the WRX and offroad enthusiasts, and it met all of DW's comfort requirements. If it weren't for the comfort requirements I probably would've gone with an old "compact" muscle car, like a Nova wagon, converted to diesel.

I've seen several examples of cars being maintained indefinitely and passed down through generations. Some have been classic pickup trucks (similar to examples above), VW Bugs, Datsun Z-cars, 1960s muscle cars, classing BMWs, and stuff like that. It can work but it takes a different mindset. It's more like owning and maintaining a house than it is a consumer product. You have to think very long term. You want to fix things right now so it's easier for you to fix it again next time. Every 10-20 years you're due to retrofit a major component; this is expected and planned for.

In the USA there is are strong property rights for motorists and a tradition of grandfathering old cars in, so I doubt old cars will ever be banned. However automotive technology does advance and over time the new stuff can be more compelling. I had a friend that used a 1960s Bronco as a daily driver but she finally gave up. Paying for periodic carburetor adjustments and ~15 mpg was just getting to be too much. I think the BIFL answer is that it was time to swap to a modern engine, like maybe one of Ford's new EcoBoost turbocharged 4 cylinder crate engines.

All that said, the "beater" strategy can be cheap too. Another way to go is to buy something like a 5 year old Yaris/Versa/Fit, treat it like a sealed appliance, and drive it into the ground. I can see cars like that lasting 20-30 years; I see plenty of 1980s Sentras and Tercels on the road. So this isn't "buy it for life" but instead maybe "buy it once per generation."

[dot_com_vet]

My previous car was 23 years old, and it had issues, but was still running. It was an accident that condemned it. Simply garage a car at night and keep up on maintenance, and it will go a really long time.

Cars do depreciate for a reason and there is a point where it makes sense to replace it. I've wrenched on an old engine to experience bolt after bolt simply break instead of turning. That will make one cry. I've taken apart an interior for repairs to have plastics simply crumble in my hands. I've spent a weekend soldering a circuit board with cracked connections. There is a point where a car is worn out, and it's generally pretty obvious. It sounds like your van is far far away from this.

[Stahlmann]

Bumping topic to bring it to ERE Gods attention and sharing more insights.

Minor contribution:
viewtopic.php?p=254076#p254076

[Sclass]

Responding to your PM here @Stahlmann

I don’t remember this thread. I may have not responded because I don’t think my solution is relevant to our forum.

I drive some BIFL cars. 1980s Mercedes diesels. They last longer than the owners. I buy them cheap from grandchildren and fix them myself. The big cost is repair so I can really capitalize on them being a good amateur mechanic. Most of the cars are dumped on me by people who can no longer afford to maintain a Mercedes. They have no desire to pay Mercedes upkeep on a 40 year old car. I have literally bought these cars for $1000 with the promise that I’ll give it a good home and love it like their grandfather once did, and never break it down for parts.

After working on them for over a decade I know all their faults and how to efficiently repair them.

Not for everyone. You have to like these things. Old smelly machines that require you to roll up your sleeves and get dirty periodically. Bad for the environment. Good for the wallet.

The car routinely outlasts the owner.

The parts are getting harder to get every year in the US. In countries like Turkey and Morocco there is an ongoing aftermarket parts industry keeping these things in tip top condition.

Want a durable car? Buy a taxicab. They have endured.























Happy woman.

[Stahlmann]

@Sclass
Thanks. Will continue discussion later.

-----------

Just found this:
https://caredge.com/ranks/maintenance
I'm not affiliated with them. It's interesting how they found data. I'm looking for European site.

[jennypenny]

Ha, forgot about this thread.

For the record, the van is still going strong at 19+ years old. I gave it to my son in SD who makes good use of it camping with all of his friends. He's an ME and baja car junkie so he's well-equipped to keep the van running himself. He's the perfect owner for that type of vehicle.

I bought a car last year and I figure it's the last car I'll ever buy. Kind of a weird feeling ... 'BIFL' gets easier the older you get.

[Sclass]

Ford truck parts are easy to get. They tend to get repaired by their owners so the aftermarket is strong.

I have a 1965 F100 step side that I can find everything for in the LMC Truck Catalog. As long as they stock parts you keep swapping stuff out when it wears out. Your van parts are probably easily sourced. A lot of guys in my area like the E350 4x4s for overland vehicles. Sounds like your son is doing that.

Hard to believe my truck is 57 years old. I bought it when I was a teenager and my mom sold it when I was away at college. I tracked it down in 2018 and bought it back. The owner had totally restored it into a custom pickup and then died. Pretty good deal for me…like I left it with a restorer for 25 years and got it back with new paint, new drivetrain and new interior. I don’t drive it often. It’s more like a conversation piece in my man cave. Although it was my first car, I didn’t really own it all this time.

[jacob]

@Sclass - Do you have a "fleet" that makes it possible to transfer parts from one car to another or back within the same "parts-system". E.g. two cars with one running and the other under construction? Would this kind of synergy help or is that quickly transcended by just getting parts from ebay or the junkyard once one gets into car repair. I know from bike repair that I wouldn't feel the need or usefulness of keeping two more or less similar bikes but cars seem more complicated from my [lack of] understanding.

[Ego]

The parts are getting harder to get every year in the US. In countries like Turkey and Morocco there is an ongoing aftermarket parts industry keeping these things in tip top condition.

Ugh! You sent me down a Mercedes rabbit hole. How hard would it be to get parts for..... say.... a 1989 Mercedes diesel 310d Camper? I still haven't fixed the scooter yet so I shouldn't be looking at problem-factories like this....

https://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/rvs ... 72910.html