The benefits of a basic income // much higher min wage

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Re: The benefits of a basic income // much higher min wage

Post by Toska2 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:04 pm

Isn't UBI a tribal idea that won't work in a monetary and capitalistic society? Tribes never had corporations with human rights, toxic wastes, low mortality rate and as few hardships.

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Re: The benefits of a basic income // much higher min wage

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:31 am

I finished the "The Technology Trap" by Carl Benedikt Frey, and I think most members of this forum would agree that he gives the topic of social ramifications of job loss due to AI technologies a fair and balanced analysis. Highly recommend.

The author offers good evidence that the problem is real and already happening in many realms where work tasks are routine or only moderately skilled. He also believes that UBI is not the best solution and suggests the following as more likely to provide better incentive along with social structure safety net.

1) Early childhood education programs to break growing cycle of inter-generational poverty in previous working class rust-belt communities.
2) Vouchers to cover moving expenses so workers can relocate to more vibrant areas.
3) Reduction of building restrictions, zoning codes, licensing requirements, and no-compete contracts along with improvements to public transportation, so workers are better able to afford to live within commuting distance of high affluence/high employment areas and are also better able to quickly change means of livelihood.
4) Wage insurance and expansion of earned income credit program.

One of the most interesting of many interesting visuals in this book showed clear correlation between states where males with level of educational attainment = high school degree voted for Trump in 2016 and the number of multi-purpose (those with flexible ability to be programmed for many different tasks) robots deployed in each state. For instance, the number of multi-purpose robots on the job in the state of Michigan is greater than the number on the job in all the Western states combined.

Another interesting visual was a set of graphs showing educational attainment vs full-time employment status for members of each gender. For women, the growing divide is not nearly as bad as for men. Men with graduate degrees show clear, strong upward trend in earnings and men with only high school degree or only some college show clear, strong downward trend in earnings. One of the results of this gender disparity is great reduction in marriage rate and subsequent growth in single mother households among former working class whites in America over the last 30 years now leading to entrenchment of inter-generational poverty.

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Re: The benefits of a basic income // much higher min wage

Post by trfie » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:05 pm

latearlyFI wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:32 am
I really do not get it. UBI is a bad idea, but your comparison is other bad ideas? Is it to make UBI look better in comparison?

How about trillions of dollars not be spent on foreign wars?
How about repealing tariffs (which hurt the poor the most)?
How about wealthy countries stop subsidizing their farmers, which is at the expense of their own population + poor farmers in the third world.
Why don't countries stop restricting the flow of immigrants? Has anyone not read/seen pictures of ppl dying in the frightful journeys out of their countries, where they would otherwise starve or be killed by terrorist groups? Why is it so dangerous? It's because it's illegal for them to come (which is why they have to pay exorbitant fees to scammers). Even without any government provisions in the new country, they would be better off being allowed to take the decision of moving to another country, and it dramatically improves the wealth/country they are going to.
Why doesn't the federal government get out of the business of profiting off student loans, which also gives colleges and universities a continuous munificent source of income that allows them to charge ridiculous amounts?
Why doesn't the federal government stop preferential treatment of large corporations?

I could make 100 more suggestions which are all based on extensive data (as well as concordant with common-sense).

In this thread @Campitor, at least, has extensively shown why a UBI is a bad idea.

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