the animal's journal

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AxelHeyst
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by AxelHeyst »

Amazing pictures. The animal-family style of travel is inspiring. Yep, in the West at least, the National Parks like Zion are there so the hordes have a concentrated place to go and you can know where not to go, except under very special and planned circumstances. Eco-Disneylands.

What an incredible serendipitous opportunity. Would there be any minimum expectation for how long you'd manage the place? Sounds like it could work out to be a thing that would take you to ~FI while also being a pretty interesting experience?

classical_Liberal
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by classical_Liberal »

Awesome pictures! Reads like you are having fun despite the early misfortune!

I totally get your impression of Zion. Yellowstone and several other popular parks are the same. It's a joke. Luckily in the larger parks, further away from the coasts, they are big enough, with enough national forest land around them to still find enjoyment. My first rule is to always find the national land/BLM around the national parks to make camp. Some National parks have amazing features in the park, hence require some patience to deal with the West Coast/urban NE tourists to see them. However, that's always only a day side trip to "Disney World" from the real experiences.

I hope you like Chaco Canyon! Forum member @luxagraf wrote about his experiences there on his awesome blog if you're interested. That was my motivation to go the first time.

Take care!

guitarplayer
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by guitarplayer »

theanimal wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:25 am
We will end up paying ~$10k out of a billed $35k.
This is crazy! DW and I cannot believe.

Good job finding a workaway! You can maybe start employing / honing the skills you get at the woodworking course straight away helping people fix stuff. Then when it comes to building your own things or doing this for money, you would already have something to show for yourself!

mathiverse
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by mathiverse »

Great pictures, theanimal! Glad to hear things are going well on your trip! The manager opportunity sounds interesting. It'll be interesting to see what you two decide to do.

Western Red Cedar
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by Western Red Cedar »

Great update and exciting trip. I haven't spent any time in the SW backcountry, but it has been high on my list for a long time.
theanimal wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:25 am
We then planned on spending ~5 days hiking around Zion, but after driving through the park we vowed not to return and carry on. The place was beyond crowded, and ironically I think it gave me a better understanding of what Jacob means by the Anthropocene. Every single pullout was packed with cars, we were part of traffic in the main road and people were walking up and down the sides as well as absentmindedly into traffic. It didn’t seem much different than an amusement park. This is all in the 2nd least visited month of the year! I can’t imagine what it is like during peak season. I’m sure the views are nice, but we have seen a lot of nice places and are more interested in wilder intact ecosystems, rather than just scenery. No views are worth that hassle.
Edward Abbey saw this coming, but I'm guessing he'd still be rolling in his grave. I take a small amount of solace in the fact that I can show up to places like Glacier NP or Mt. Rainier NP and work my way through the crowds to get a backcountry permit, then find myself in relative isolation in the middle of some of the busiest national parks.

Have you done much research yet on a southbound PCT trip? I think it would be quite challenging to pull off logistically with the fire season these days. When you account for snow melt in the Cascades, you are starting to approach fire season in Washington and Oregon. I know people are still doing it, and some are even rubberbanding the trail, but I think some of them are willing to hike through some pretty nasty air quality. 2022 was a bit of an anomaly in terms of precipitation and fires in Washington and Oregon.
Last edited by Western Red Cedar on Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Scott 2
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by Scott 2 »

Curious on the medical bills - did you look into using the hospital's charity program to help with the cash balance? From what I understand, asked properly, a hospital can sometimes forgive part of the cash balance, turning it into a tax write off. Not many people have $10k for medical bills, especially new families.

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Ego
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by Ego »

theanimal wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:25 am
Turns out, his friends had just bought the lodge a month ago and asked him to come up from Phoenix to help out and manage it in the interim (owners are in Arkansas), while working on some improvements/expansions. We keep chatting and he mentions how they are looking for a couple to run the place and ends up more or less offering us the opportunity to be that couple. The job would be managing the lodge, restaurant, store with gas station, boat rentals and Grand Canyon raft outfitting among other things. High salary with free 3 bedroom house and more or less 0 expenses. Mrs. Animal and I have been talking it over. She is on board, but I am unsure. It would be a very large change and prevent us from doing some of the things we are interested in doing in the near future like hiking the PCT and building the cabin addition in the Arctic. However, it would be a heck of a learning experience and challenge with 0 downside risk to us. Hmm..
Incredible! Wow. What an amazing opportunity.

theanimal
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by theanimal »

I had expected some people, but the crowds were much beyond what I expected. Alaska parks are so large and so infrequently visited that it was a bit of a shock. I mean you can fit something like 60 Zions within Gates of the Arctic National Park (my former backyard) and there are only a few thousand visitors each year. We did camp on National Forest land outside of Capitol Reef and stayed on BLM land outside of Zion for a night. I can't imagine staying at the campgrounds inside the park... Lesson learned though. Prior to this trip I hadn't really been to many national parks outside Alaska having driven through Mesa Verde and Yellowstone briefly and did a backpacking trip in the Badlands (which I very much enjoyed). Like @WRC, I figure Ed Abbey is rolling in his grave. Especially considering the park he worked at (Arches) is supposedly one of the worst. I have also found that the vast majority of people tend to be within 1 mile or so of the roads and beyond that there is essentially no one. Which is fine by me, as the best experiences are often away from the road. I'm fond of this Abbey quote:
“You can't see anything from a car; you've got to get out of the goddamn contraption and walk, better yet crawl, on hands and knees, over the sandstone and through the thornbrush and cactus. When traces of blood begin to mark your trail, you'll see something, maybe.”
Thanks @c_L for the link. I enjoy his blog too. I think we will have a good time there checking out all the ruins and cultural history.

Regarding the management gig..no idea regarding whether or not there is a time commitment. We went back this morning to talk with the guy more about details but he wasn't around. We have his contact information though and will be following up.
Slevin wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:07 pm
... its just that those aren't usually the people trying to interact with you. I may be a weird case, but I really don't think so. Something something capitalism destroying the social fabric.
Yeah, I would tend to agree with that. The destruction of community and replacement with the "market" destroying social connections across the country. Coming to a community near you! I guess the more surprising thing for me is that rural areas are still generally not as susceptible to this. That has held true for us on this trip for the most part and we have had some really nice interactions with locals and long term travelers. Not as much with the quick vacation crowd. At the same time, I still find myself developing a greater and greater trust in people. Giving in so to speak to the faith in the human "community" at large. It has reaped some tremendous rewards and there are some truly kind and wholesome people out there, such as the guy we met in Canada, many on this very forum and others that have helped out in a pinch, no expectations and no questions asked. Its kind of the same thing of that @jacob quote about the forums that @ego likes to share. "Create the place you'd like to spend time in." Applies just as much to the non virtual world. If I want others to have trust in me, then shouldn't I trust in them? I guess that's faith.
Scott 2 wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:32 pm
Curious on the medical bills - did you look into using the hospital's charity program to help with the cash balance? From what I understand, asked properly, a hospital can sometimes forgive part of the cash balance, turning it into a tax write off. Not many people have $10k for medical bills, especially new families.
The hospital has a financial assistance program which we qualify for based on income but likely not based on assets. I guess it doesn't hurt to apply. Our friends who have had kids in the past few years have reported similar expenses, from $6k and up.
guitarplayer wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:33 pm
This is crazy! DW and I cannot believe.
You are not alone! From my understanding, it is more or less normal. We chose our health plan specifically with the idea of keeping the final out of pocket cost as low as possible. There are many other plans where our costs would have been few thousand higher. We talked medical systems with our new friend in Canada and he was in equal disbelief. There are charity programs at all hospitals but they vary in scope and are focused more on the uninsured, those with very low income, and low assets.
Western Red Cedar wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:15 pm
Have you done much research yet on a southbound PCT trip?
Yes, those are all valid points. We are not married to the idea of doing the whole trail in its entirety and would be ok with skipping sections if it made sense due to smoke or bugs. If we miss a few hundred or even a thousand miles, no big deal.

IlliniDave
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by IlliniDave »

theanimal wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:25 am
... and ends up more or less offering us the opportunity to be that couple. The job would be managing the lodge, restaurant, store with gas station, boat rentals and Grand Canyon raft outfitting among other things. High salary with free 3 bedroom house and more or less 0 expenses. Mrs. Animal and I have been talking it over. She is on board, but I am unsure. It would be a very large change and prevent us from doing some of the things we are interested in doing in the near future like hiking the PCT and building the cabin addition in the Arctic. However, it would be a heck of a learning experience and challenge with 0 downside risk to us. Hmm..
That sounds like a really neat opportunity. During my first couple years in the corporate grind I remember looking in the classified ads of some outdoor magazine and seeing a lodge for sale somewhere in the north country (focus was fishing rather than rafting) and my first thoughts of leaving the workforce early coalesced around that. Life took me elsewhere but even later on the cusp of finding ERE when ER became "the" plan one of the first things that came to mind was the lodge/resort idea although with a twist of trying to create one that could accommodate older folks and folks with disabilities (sorry, not sure what the proper term for tat is nowadays). A former colleague who found himself involuntarily retired had an opportunity to be the caretaker for a fishing camp up in Ontario for a summer and he loved it, although he moved on because hunting is his "thing" and he found a partner with whom he was going to try to stand up a hunting camp somewhere in the western US. Good luck if you opt to pursue it. I've never been overly drawn to "thrill" sports but have done a little rafting and taking a GC rafting trip is there on the bucket list.

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jennypenny
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by jennypenny »

Wow, I missed a lot. First, congrats on baby animal! Second, I'm glad you guys are ok after the wipe out.

Third ... I don't know enough about your personalities to really give advice, but the PCT will always be there. And a big part of the reason for living an ERE lifestyle is to be in a position to take advantage of serendipitous opportunities. It would be a shame to pass up on one just to get back to EREing, as it were. If there are others reasons, that's a different story. But if it's just because you 'had plans' well ... make new ones. :)

theanimal
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by theanimal »

IlliniDave wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:33 am
From what I can tell, it seems like your type of place. They do not do the whitewater rafting, just outfitting for a raft company nearby. However, they do have a whole team of fishing guides. Apparently, Lee's Ferry is one of the best places in Arizona for fishing and there is substantial demand and activity during peak season.
jennypenny wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:07 pm
Thanks, I appreciate your perspective. It is in one part plans of other things, which as you say, I can just make new plans. However, the main thing for me seems to be whether or not I actually want to do it. If we do it, it would be short term as neither of us wants to be in the area on a long term basis.

The guy led us on a little bit in terms of what ability he actually has in regards to offering job/hiring etc. He does not have hiring ability and is friends with the hospitality management company, not the owners. The place essentially failed due to terrible management by the former owner and was sold at a deep discount. Anyways, we toured the property and spoke with his friend, who is looking for new management and sent in our resumes. No word yet, so it's all moot for now.

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Seppia
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by Seppia »

Wow
Valley Of the Gods is great, you'll love it.
If you can, think about crossing Lake Powell at Halls Crossing instead of the "normal" way.
There's like 4 ferries per day, and usually nobody waiting with you.
I still remember the feeling of freedom I experienced when I arrived to the deserted ferry dock after two hours of driving in the middle of amazing nothingness.

I was with a friend of mine and we just parked the car, blasted some Slayer and swam in silence.

I remember thinking "this is what America is about"

You're used to much more wilderness so probably wouldn't be that awe-inspiring to you but still.

Among all the parks, my favorite is probably Canyonlands, are you guys going to Moab?

Keep kicking ass!

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C40
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by C40 »

Glad to see that the trip went well in Utah and Arizona.

Come to think of it, I should have recommended Escalante, so it's nice to see that you went there and went all the way down to the cool parts. Seeing your first pictures of the San Rafael Swell area brings back some really nice memories. I should definitely go spend more time there. A thing I really like is that there are some big elevation differences and huge differences in the plant and animal life possible in Utah. I was camping down in the canyon there, then up at the rim of the little big canyon, but it was too hot at 95 degrees during daytime, so I went to the top of the hills to the west of there (west of the city nearby) and then it was lush and cool (like 70 degrees). I do think that even with the hordes of people, there are still place in Zion that are worth going to - places that are both spectacular AND where the tourists don't go - and I am only talking about some easily accessible places a really short walk from the bus road. And I think few people go outside of that bus route canyon and the main road. But, it is a very different place. For me it worked ok by doing strange logistical thing to optimize the time that would be less possible in normal circumstances and with a family

The small towns of Utah are definitely interesting. And strange. Some things that stood out to me:
- Kids actually run around the towns on their own to play. This was really nice to see.
- People actually go to parks to do park stuff! They are pretty friendly with strangers

- There is a seemingly total absence of homeless or drugged out people. Contrast this by crossing the CO border into Grand junction. I went to the library there and it was a depressing overload of people in lows of life. I think some of this (not having people out in public who are obviously homeless, drug addicted, in poor mental health) is accomplished in Utah by nefarious methods
- In very small towns, which have mostly small, cheap, old houses (600 square feet 1950s styles) there are huge - I mean truly gigantic and luxurious temples. It is a really striking polarity and to me reeked of people being taken advantage of financially by the church

Salathor
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by Salathor »

C40 wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:25 pm
- In very small towns, which have mostly small, cheap, old houses (600 square feet 1950s styles) there are huge - I mean truly gigantic and luxurious temples. It is a really striking polarity and to me reeked of people being taken advantage of financially by the church
I'm not a mormon, so don't quote me, but I don't believe that the temples are paid for by the locals (unlike in Scientology). I believe the main church (the whole body of mormons) funds the building of temples, even in those remote regions. Temples in mormonism are also very unlike churches in protestant religions. They are not day-to-day houses of worship.

theanimal
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by theanimal »

Seppia wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:03 pm
We ended up camping for a few days above Valley of the God's at Muley's Point. OUTSTANDING views! The best of our trip so far. The San Juan River snaked in canyons below and Monument Valley was in the distance.

Image

Your trip sounds like it was a blast. We won't be able to try the same this time, the ferry is closed. I'm not sure if it's seasonal or something else is going on.

Yesterday afternoon, I started thinking we'd end our stint in Utah in the Canyonlands area. I spent some time in Indian Creek on a climbing trip with my cousin on my first trip to Utah and really enjoyed it. However, we got snowed on last night and it is snowing/raining as I type. There is a winter weather advisory for the bulk of the southeast corner of the state so we will be fleeing Utah and heading to New Mexico.

It is a bit unfortunate as we are on Cedar Mesa and have spent the past two days trying to find/checking out some wild Anasazi ruins. Another reason to come back I suppose.
C40 wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:25 pm
San Rafael Swell was one of our favorite parts, there is a lot of diversity like you mentioned and nobody there. I saw the area that you mentioned in the mountains further to the west. It was covered in snow and temperatures were below freezing on the rim as it was, so we didn't feel like we needed any more cool air. Maybe if we return in warmer seasons we'll check that out.

The reservations also show the stark contrast between the Mormons and surrounding communities. I'm not sure if you went through the Navajo or Hopi Reservations at all, but it is unfortunately kind of the stereotype aesthetic. Dilapidated houses, junk cars and trailers everywhere, broken glass all over the side of the road, and nearly every third house has old tires on the roof (?? I can't figure out why. Wind?).

My friend in Kanab says it's not as great living in these communities if you are non-Mormon, especially if you are young. Not because they are unfriendly, but the social scene is pretty much dead. Since there are often big families, any events are usually family oriented and there isn't much for public group activities(let alone nightlife). She has had a really hard time making friends and she is one of the most extroverted people I know.

I'm sure Zion has some cool places and perhaps I can be more strategic about it and check it out later at some point. I imagine it's similar to other areas in that most people are on the main trails and even on those aren't much further than a mile or 2 from the road. It probably didn't help that we went so close to Thanksgiving.

AnalyticalEngine
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by AnalyticalEngine »

That view is spectacular! Amazing colors.
theanimal wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:30 am
My friend in Kanab says it's not as great living in these communities if you are non-Mormon, especially if you are young. Not because they are unfriendly, but the social scene is pretty much dead. Since there are often big families, any events are usually family oriented and there isn't much for public group activities(let alone nightlife). She has had a really hard time making friends and she is one of the most extroverted people I know.
I was born in a small Utah town and spent many of my formative childhood years there, and I confirm this is true. There is a LOT of social pressure to conform to Mormon standards that you probably don't experience when you just travel through it. For example, there were very few non-Mormon families in the whole town, and they pretty much openly shunned for the lack of faith. Also, everyone tends to know everyone else, and the amount of social policing to conform to small town expectations is severe. If you fail to live up to standards, including stuff as simple as not getting married young and immediately having children, people will openly criticize you for it. There is an extremely low tolerance for deviance from the norm.
C40 wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:25 pm
There is a seemingly total absence of homeless or drugged out people. Contrast this by crossing the CO border into Grand junction. I went to the library there and it was a depressing overload of people in lows of life. I think some of this (not having people out in public who are obviously homeless, drug addicted, in poor mental health) is accomplished in Utah by nefarious methods
Because of how closely knit small town Utah can be, social problems like drug addiction are swept under the rug due to a culture of shame. Without getting unnecessarily in detail about my Mormon family, I have a great number of relatives who would qualify as "drug addicted homeless," but because of the perfectionist social culture, they get hidden away inside of their parents basement and cause major issues for everyone involved while the family itself refuses to talk about or acknowledge the problem. There is a very, VERY strong pressure to maintain your social reputation due to the small community, so rest assured that these issues DO exist, they just exist in spaces you can't see them.

Salt Lake City is also pretty bad in terms of the homeless population.

With respect to Grand Junction, the homeless problem there happens because many of the homeless are bused in FROM Utah to Grand Junction. It's a huge thing that I often hear Grand Junction civic authorities complaining about. They will occasionally round up homeless people in GJ then ship them off to other states. It becomes a game of tossing the hot potato around to jurisdictions that aren't your problem.
Salathor wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:23 pm
I'm not a mormon, so don't quote me, but I don't believe that the temples are paid for by the locals (unlike in Scientology). I believe the main church (the whole body of mormons) funds the building of temples, even in those remote regions. Temples in mormonism are also very unlike churches in protestant religions. They are not day-to-day houses of worship.
That is not quite correct. The church takes a tithing of 10% of your income, and this money is used to build the temples. Unlike other Christian religions, the Mormon church has no paid clergy. The church is ran on a volunteer, unpaid basis from the community, and the tithing money is taken to basically run the church like a business.

They are pretty draconian about this. I remember being told as a child you should pay tithing before you even pay things like rent, food, etc. Then we were told countless stories about single mothers who chose to pay tithing over rent and then "god would bless them."

You are correct that templates aren't used for worship. They are used for ceremonies, particularly related to marriage and baptism for the dead. You need to get a temple recommend from your bishop in order to go, and if you haven't been living up to the Mormon code, the bishop will interview you and refuse to let you in. It can be a major source of shame because you are required to go there to get married, but if you have violated the code (had sex before marriage, not paying your tithing, etc), you can't get married there and the whole community is aware of your shame.

SavingWithBabies
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by SavingWithBabies »

Ouch on the trailer but very happy to read you all made it out just fine (sorry, I'm catching up). The job offer/position sounds interesting but I can see why you'd hesitate. It's a big commitment (time-wise).

I'm a bit like the people who don't say hello on the trail (but I actually do say hello, just a little shy about it). I think growing up in a big city (Chicago for me) makes you antisocial in some regards. My kids are overwhelmingly the other direction and will go out of their way to say hello and keep on saying it until they get some sort of acknowledgement much to my chagrin. At first that is. Then I realized it was me with the problem and I try to embrace their outgoing nature that I lack. I definitely learn quite a bit from them.

theanimal
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by theanimal »

After Muley Point we went a few miles north to the heart of Cedar Mesa. Cedar Mesa is the home of Grand Gulch, which has the most Anasazi ruins within the region. For those who aren't familiar, the Anasazi were known as the "cliff dwellers", making their homes high on cliff faces hundreds of feet above canyon/valley floors. Mrs. Animal and i were both looking forward to checking them out, especially after reading a couple books about the area, notably "In Search of the Old Ones" and "House of Rain." We hiked out to House of Fire the first day, scanning the hillsides for any sign of possible ruins, such as cave openings and constructed walls. We found one hidden in the trees and went up, finding an old wall, blackened ceiling from smoke and pottery sherds scattered across the ground.

Image

After viewing that and the House of Fire, our appetite was whetted. It was all the more fun for us because we only had a very rough idea where everything was. We neglected to use map or gps to find the ruins, electing to try and discover them on our own. We next went down Bullet Canyon, an access point into Grand Gulch, in search of a site called "perfect kiva." After a few miles and no sight of anything, we were wondering if we had already passed it. We had stopped to rest and feed baby animal when Mra. Animal spotted 3 moons drawn on a rock face about 1000 ft up and 1/2 mi distant (she has excellent vision). Binoculars confirmed the site and we made our way up the big boulders and canyon walls towards the top. The moons were located on the back wall of a small knob that protruded out from the wall of the canyon. All the access points were near vertical, preventing us from going the final ~15 ft. We scanned and tried multiple options for nearly an hour but couldn't find anything that would allow us to go up AND come back down safely. Why would anyone decide to live so high up? I struggled to imagine them climbing up to these sites regularly, let alone with water/wood/food. Apparently, it is still debated within academic circles but common sense would seem to dictate that they were trying to protect themselves from someone/something. We hiked back up to the rim and got back to camp at sunset, excited for more trips like this over the next 5 days.

Image
Me in the center trying to find a way up. 3 moons and ruins above in center

Image
Climbing out of Bullet Canyon. Ruins on the left side. Mrs. Animal spotted them from near the opposite side of the canyon in the center

We woke the next morning to this.

Image

Winter weather advisory in effect for southeast Utah with nearly a foot at high elevations (we were at 6500') with cool temps for the next week. Ay yi yi. Hiking wouldn't be that safe with the wet rocks and with no desire to spend a few days in the tent we scrambled to change plans once more. Not wanting to drive any more than we had to, we elected to head to New Mexico, where temperatures were favorable and there was no forecasted snow.

We spent a night at De Na Zin Wilderness before continuing on for a few days at Chaco Canyon. Outside of the campground, we more or less had the place to ourselves and enjoyed being able to hike into and explore the ruins. Much better experience than Mesa Verde NP, where many of the "trails" are paved and you can only view a select few of the many dwellings from afar.

Image

With many unplanned days due to the change in plans, we needed to find somewhere else to go. I wasn't very familiar with New Mexico, so I tried to quickly research areas that seemed interesting within our general direction of travel. We stumbled upon Bandelier National Monument outside of Los Alamos and spent a few days there camped among ponderosa pines in Santa Fe National Forest. Both the forest and the Pueblo dwellings within the monument were very, very cool. Many different ecosystems within the area and a unique style of building (carving out caves in the rock). This area ended up being Mrs. Animal's favorite over the Anasazi and Chacoans. Another incoming winter storm unfortunately prodded us on once more.

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We are now in western Kansas at Cimarron Natioanl Grassland with not much besides the coyotes, owls and wind for company. We have one more night left on the trip before this round comes to a close. We have both enjoyed it very much and have many ideas now about places we'd like to return or check out on another trip in the future.

Fuel costs were essentially our only real costs of the trip. Food spending remained virtually unchanged from normal. Total fuel costs will come to something just over $1,100 for a little over 6 weeks of travel. We had another ~$200 of costs that cropped up as a result of the accident so roughly $1300 total incurred for the trip. Over some 6,000 miles and ~50 nights we camped for free on public land or stayed with friends/family the vast majority of the time, paying only 1 night for a hotel in Montana and campground fees 2 nights at Chaco Canyon and 1 night at Liard Hot Springs. Total driving time averaged out to about 1:50/day with the bulk of the driving frontloaded from AK to UT. That number was probably cut in half after reaching UT as we rarely spent only 1 night at a location.

As I mentioned previously, we do think that it would be possible to do more or less the same style trip by bike, dropping the costs to almost nothing. We had envisioned doing such a trip in the first place, but baby animal's neck is still too weak for that, potentially at some point further down the line when she is older than 9 months-1 yr.

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mountainFrugal
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by mountainFrugal »

That area is so cool. I really enjoyed Bandelier.

The Secret Knowledge of Water by Craig Childs is an excellent read. He explores New Mexico and the four corners regions extensively and mostly by foot. He makes his way between known water sources with many miles between them for a USGS project. You both would love the book.

Keep up the awesome exploration!

Gilberto de Piento
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Re: the animal's journal

Post by Gilberto de Piento »

I read House of Rain this summer. I've added the other two books mentioned to my reading list. Thanks for the recommendations!

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