Are You In "The 1%"?

[guitarplayer]

@Sclass thanks for reflecting on the old post!

@Ego I appreciate this roundabout way of saying that lots of money and security tend to make one dumb.

@jacob, Raven-g is WEIRD, what hunter gatherer from some remote tribe would see a point in looking at abstract pictures? That being said, it's less context dependent than some other ones. As part of the assessment for my CogPsy course, I had to test one fellow with WAIS so saw its structure - it is way more WEIRD. Once there was a science week at my Uni and MENSA people came to do free tests as part of the whole festival, they were using Raven's test. I signed up on the ground of 'free'. Thinking about that WAIS I administered a year earlier, I think my score using WAIS would have been very different from that I got in the science week MENSA testing.

[chenda]

One of the many consequences of great wealth and security is that they tend to kill enthusiasm.

Is that so bad though ? A life of languid leisure seems a lovely way to spend life.

[theanimal]

It's not bad, it's miserable. Working too hard is not good, doing nothing and being too wealthy is arguably worse (on an individual basis). I am very closely associated with someone in the 0.1% and the lifestyle and its experiences have only served to make me want to go as far as possible in the opposite direction. Almost everything becomes transactionary as everything is hired out . Private chef for breakfast, dinner at minimum $50/plate restaurants every night, private transportation (cars, boats, jets), week plus vacations at $5000/night houses etc. Its a lifestyle that wants for nothing. And from what I've witnessed, never experienced true joy as there is no real hardship. Life becomes very boring and requires constant travel or other simulation to make it more interesting. The kicker is that the things done are not really different than what people do who don't have 0.1% incomes. I guess they seem more attractive because they have a higher price tag. But the things that you can do for free (like camp on a beach, cook food that you sourced yourself, walk/bike etc) are far, far more enjoyable than the "high end" alternatives (staying in a 3000 sq ft house on the beach, eating at a restaurant, getting rides places).

This quote from the saling story Sky linked is related and stuck with me. The author (from 1932) talking about doing things yourself is key to a good life:

Take travel. Allow yourself to be carried about the world in Wagon-Lits and cabins-deluxe, and what do you get out of it? You get bored to death. Everything is done for you and you don't even have to think. All you have to do is to pay. You're carried about with the greatest care and wrapped up and fed and insulated from everything. You see about as much of life as a suckling in the arms of its nurse. No wonder you get bored! But get yourself about the world, on your own feet, or in your own boat, and you're bound, you're bound to fill your life with interest and charm and fun and beauty. You'll have your disagreeable and uncomfortable times, of course, but they merely serve to make the good times taste better. "Sleep after toyle, port after stormie seas ." Old Spenser knew. He'd been through it. Sail all day in the wet and cold, then bring up in some quiet harbour and go below and toast your feet before the galley fire and you'll realise what bliss means. Travel in a steam-heated Pullman and then put up at the Ritz and see if you find any bliss there! You see what I mean? Stewart Edward White put it all much better than I can. He wrote, "I've often noted two things about trees: the stunted little twisted fellows have had a hard time, what with wind and snow and poor soil; and they grow farthest up on the big peaks."

[Ego]

Is that so bad though ? A life of languid leisure seems a lovely way to spend life.

Well, if we had to rank them then I would certainly put the consequences of poverty at the bottom. And languid leisure in short stretches is wonderful. But we humans have this peculiar desire for purpose and meaning that somehow atrophies without enthusiasm.

Or as one of your countrymen said...

There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it.

[7Wannabe5]

True, but it would be nice to have a couple burly garden helpers on hire. It’s kind of fun to design something and then see it manifest even if you don’t do all the heavy lifting.

[Seppia]

I am very closely associated with someone in the 0.1% and the lifestyle and its experiences have only served to make me want to go as far as possible in the opposite direction. Almost everything becomes transactionary as everything is hired out .

Are you sure this is a money created problem and not a lack of culture problem?
In my (anecdotal) experience, propensity to spend/waste money is kind of embedded in a person, meaning it's not really related to wage/earnings but rather to attitude.

I am extremely far from being in the 0.1%, but I know people who make 1/3 of what I make who totally fit your description and know people who make 10x what I do and still have a meaningful life which isn't defined by the price tag of what they do

[jacob]

In terms of IQ vs society, "the highest is not the most successful".
See https://prometheussociety.org/wp/articl ... outsiders/

The sweet spot for societal success is around 1.5 SD (Beware that everybody is using their own SDs. The article above seems to use SD=18.5 which is unusual. Standard Binet is 16.) This is smart enough to easily rise to the top of most vocations and societal system(s), but not so smart as to find playing them silly. Of course, individual experiences may vary. Correlation is not causation. There are more variables.

[theanimal]

@seppia- Yes, it very well could be as you described. I only have the one anecdote so no others really to compare them to first hand. I guess my underlying point is that I have trouble seeing how that much money can lead to a more purpose driven life.

[jennypenny]

I agree with chenda though that there's a presumption that a 'purpose driven life' is necessary/required, as is 'enthusiasm'. Lotta self-selection here, and our admittedly small sample also suggests that there's some gender influence as well.

[Ego]

There has been a lot of talk here recently about early-retiring, experiencing a directionless malaise and then returning to work to solve the directionlessness. In this context, when I say enthusiasm I think of it as the opposite of directionless malaise.

Purpose and meaning are loaded words so I probably should not have used them.

[Jean]

my pupose in life is to make high iq people enjoy idleness

[jennypenny]

@Ego -- Sorry if it sounded like I was picking on what you said. I wasn't really directing that at you -- you and I have no trouble filling our days with activities we find meaningful. Chenda too, I suspect. I was aiming more for the folks on the forum who always spell meaning with a capital 'M' or only pursue activities where they can quantify their progress/results.

[unemployable]

the best way to find a reproductive partner will be to thrust your instinct

I presume that wasn't a typo.

[unemployable]

for all I know, IQ primarily measures… IQ.

IQ measures the ability to take IQ tests.

[zbigi]

I agree with chenda though that there's a presumption that a 'purpose driven life' is necessary/required, as is 'enthusiasm'. Lotta self-selection here, and our admittedly small sample also suggests that there's some gender influence as well.

I'm still non sold on either side of that. I mean, they both (purpose and enthusiasm) sound great in theory, and life with purpose and enthusiasm sounds wonderful - but somehow it doesn't click for me. Kinda like the standard societal path of working hard in a job for 40 years.

[7Wannabe5]

I think that maybe "anticipation" is the word I would go for. Like every day, or most days, you wake up and you have something to look forward to. Might just be "I wonder if the snapdragons sprouted?" or "Yay, my library hold is available!" However, there's kind of a knack to structuring your lifestyle to maximize little pleasant semi-surprises, and the 40 hour work week is usually in opposition to this. Very few corporations have mission statement along lines of "Maximize our employees' sense of wonder."

[zbigi]

I think that maybe "anticipation" is the word I would go for. Like every day, or most days, you wake up and you have something to look forward to. Might just be "I wonder if the snapdragons sprouted?" or "Yay, my library hold is available!" However, there's kind of a knack to structuring your lifestyle to maximize little pleasant semi-surprises, and the 40 hour work week is usually in opposition to this. Very few corporations have mission statement along lines of "Maximize our employees' sense of wonder."

A lifetime playing challenging video games you enjoy also meets that though... But seems to be frowned up on this forum.

[7Wannabe5]

There's very little I frown upon, but I've never been able to get into video games, so they must not push what I mean by the "anticipation/wonder" button for me. Maybe it's because the experience is too structured, like shopping at a mall vs. foraging? Might just be because I am almost entirely lacking the obtain pleasure from hitting a mark gene which makes sports and video games fun for other humans.

[jacob]

A lifetime playing challenging video games you enjoy also meets that though... But seems to be frowned up on this forum.

It's because gaming is considered consumptive rather than productive. Exceptions include making skins, maps, etc.

However, after swearing off gaming 25 years ago (going from 2-3 hours per day to 2-3 hours per year on average) I've recently picked it up again. The drive to be productive for all things at all times began to feel a bit stifling similar to how associating an activity with an external reward eventually destroys inner motivation.

[Laura Ingalls]

In terms of IQ vs society, "the highest is not the most successful".
See https://prometheussociety.org/wp/articl ... outsiders/

The sweet spot for societal success is around 1.5 SD (Beware that everybody is using their own SDs. The article above seems to use SD=18.5 which is unusual. Standard Binet is 16.) This is smart enough to easily rise to the top of most vocations and societal system(s), but not so smart as to find playing them silly. Of course, individual experiences may vary. Correlation is not causation. There are more variables.

The Wechsler series uses 15 as the SD they are used the most in the US. They are designed to measure different kinds of intelligence how effectively is subject to debate. We often use the terms fluid and crystallized.

Reading this thread makes me exceptionally thankful to be raised by someone neither 1% on brains or money but very high on social capital, creativity, lack of fear of failure and resourcefulness.