Obtaining a Second Passport

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Ego
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by Ego »

Thank you Seppia!
sky wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:23 pm
Have you looked into the tax implications of living in Italy?
@Sky, yes, that was one of the first things I researched. Currently our circumstances are optimized for US taxes. I don't foresee that changing anytime soon.
Ego wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:29 pm
With regard to taxes, the US & Italy have a tax convention which permits dual citizens to avoid double taxation. Here's a link to the pdf.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/italypro.pdf
You pay taxes in your resident country. Article 4 spells out how to determine residency.

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Seppia
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by Seppia »

You may want to check the recent rule changes for people having lived abroad (if you understand Italian, check Gruppo Controesodo).
After two years abroad I can come back and will only have to pay taxes on 30% of my earnings for the first 5 years (10 years if you have a kid or buy an apartment).

sky
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by sky »

If circumstances changed and you decided to live in the EU full time, how much would that change your tax liability? Like from 25% to 35%?

I am just curious and too lazy to research it myself.

rube
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by rube »

EU does not have on tax regime, this is different per county. In many cases not so easy to give a simple fixed number as it depends on several factors.

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Ego
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by Ego »

Seppia wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:01 am
You may want to check the recent rule changes for people having lived abroad (if you understand Italian, check Gruppo Controesodo).
https://www.gruppocontroesodo.it/
Bookmarked. Thank you!
sky wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:18 am
If circumstances changed and you decided to live in the EU full time, how much would that change your tax liability? Like from 25% to 35%?
For us, choosing a place to live is extremely important for quality of life. Right now we live in Southern California and love it. I can't imagine choosing a place for tax purposes. The question we ask is, how can we live exactly where we want at the lowest cost. Tax is only one of those considerations.

That said, looking through Seppia's link above it appears we could do rather well wrt taxes and overall expenses if we were to relocate to somewhere on the coast of Calabria. Mrs. Ego searched AirBnb while having breakfast and found this place 100 meters from the beach for $500 for the month of March.

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Seppia
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by Seppia »

Tropea is beautiful, but be aware Calabria can be fairly tough if you have no local connections.

Humanofearth
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by Humanofearth »

A second passport is worth it. You can renounce the first passport if need be. The US has been known to kidnap and do much worse to those not reporting taxes so it's a heavy curse for any expats. It's worth renouncing as long as you don't care to live in US. US was the most expensive, dangerous, boring country I ever visited and it's getting worse every year.

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Ego
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by Ego »

Seppia wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:01 am
You may want to check the recent rule changes for people having lived abroad (if you understand Italian, check Gruppo Controesodo).
After two years abroad I can come back and will only have to pay taxes on 30% of my earnings for the first 5 years (10 years if you have a kid or buy an apartment).
I found a good outline in English for anyone interested as it also applies to foreign workers. Is it a good opportunity to tax-gain harvest?

https://www.withersworldwide.com/en-gb/ ... -employees
In summary, the tax regime applies to any employee, self-employed professional, or individual carrying out business activities who:
 becomes Italian tax resident (regardless of their original State of residence);
 commits to remain an Italian tax resident for the following two years;
 has not been Italian tax resident for the last two years; and
 spends the majority of their time work within the Italian territory (either for an Italian or a non-Italian enterprise and regardless of his/her role or qualification).

Individuals who meet these criteria are subject to individual income tax in Italy on only 30% of their employment/self-employment/business income. By moving to the southern regions of Italy, the taxable proportion of their income is reduced to only 10%. The tax regime applies for five years and can be extended for another five years (in total 10 years) subject to some additional conditions (e.g. the purchase of a residential property or where there is a minor child, etc.).

Western Red Cedar
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by Western Red Cedar »

The Mad Fientist recently picked up his second passport.

https://www.madfientist.com/escape-artist-interview/

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Ego
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by Ego »

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... 30658.html

Foreigners who help fight will be eligible to obtain Ukrainian citizenship.

jacob
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by jacob »

Ego wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:17 am
Foreigners who help fight will be eligible to obtain Ukrainian citizenship.
That seems like a high risk/reward proposition insofar the passport is the main attraction. Depending on who wins it might not be worthwhile. Also, it's my [limited] understanding that enlisting provides some protection under various conventions whereas fighting w/o enlisting (e.g. volunteers and mercenaries) does not. There's a risk of ending up detained for years with little government#1 can do about it.

A path to eventual US citizenship would be to serve in the US military. Also the French Foreign Legion.

chenda
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by chenda »

jacob wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:30 am
Also, it's my [limited] understanding that enlisting provides some protection under various conventions whereas fighting w/o enlisting (e.g. volunteers and mercenaries) does not. There's a risk of ending up detained for years with little government#1 can do about it.
That seems to have been the case in the war in the Dombas region which has been rumbling on since 2014. Both sides seem to have attracted an unpleasant assortment of mercenaries, vigilantes, white supremicists and neo-Nazis types from around the world. Google Ukraine's azov batallion or OSCE reports on Russian jails in the region for some very unpleasant reading.

Torture, unlawful killing, rape have been committed by both sides against each other and against civilians, with little if any judicial recourse.

Absolutely fucking horrific.

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Ego
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by Ego »

jacob wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:30 am
That seems like a high risk/reward..
Well, people have volunteered for equally dangerous situations for much less (or more, depending on your perspective).

Some may see it as a loophole to getting what may soon be an EU passport. People die everyday attempting to cross the Mediterranean and they are not offered the prospect of a passport.

xmj
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by xmj »

Ego wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:20 pm
Some may see it as a loophole to getting what may soon be an EU passport. People die everyday attempting to cross the Mediterranean and they are not offered the prospect of a passport.
The EU used to be rather restrictive in who may join the club, especially when it came to organizational maturity, institutional stability and... lack of corruption.

Over all the positive PR Zelensky gets, one shouldn't forget that it's quite different on all those respects from other Eastern European countries. Especially public administration's corruption.

chenda
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by chenda »

xmj wrote:
Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:17 am
Over all the positive PR Zelensky gets, one shouldn't forget that it's quite different on all those respects from other Eastern European countries. Especially public administration's corruption.
Is Ukrainian corruption really much worse though than the rest of Eastern Europe or the Mediterranean countries? Maybe, they'll probably need to clean up their act in some areas anyway.

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Ego
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by Ego »

xmj wrote:
Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:17 am
Over all the positive PR Zelensky gets, one shouldn't forget that it's quite different on all those respects from other Eastern European countries. Especially public administration's corruption.
I don't disagree, but the cost/benefit calculation for the EU is changing very quickly.

When we were in Lviv in 2019 I went to the National Archives, researched my family history and now possess official documents that show my great-grandmother's and great-grandfather's birth. If they ever decide to allow citizenship by decent, I am ready to proceed.

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Ego
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by Ego »

Screws are being tightened on countries that allow citizenship by investment.
https://www.imidaily.com/north-america/ ... -programs/
The announcement follows the joint commitment from the EU, US, Uk, Japan, and Canada to “limit the sale of citizenship – so-called Golden Passports –that allow wealthy Russians connected to the Russian Government to become citizens of European countries and gain access to their financial systems.”

chenda
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by chenda »

Good. Malta for one effectively sold citizenship to wealthy Russians after they joined the EU, and it totally corrupted the country with all sorts of dodgy black money and mafia types coming in. There was even an assassination of a journalist covering it. I think they have since been pressurised by Brussels to clamp down on the practice.

chenda
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by chenda »

Ego wrote:
Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:25 am
If they ever decide to allow citizenship by decent, I am ready to proceed.
Aren't you already Italian-EU Ego or was that someone else?

Glad you got to see Ukraine, I almost went to Kiev last year, must feel especially unsettling...

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Ego
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Re: Obtaining a Second Passport

Post by Ego »

Yes. I am operating on the assumption that more options are better than fewer. But there is always the possibility that the complications will outweigh the benefits. We shall see.

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