Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

All the different ways of solving the shelter problem. To be static or mobile? Roots, legs, or wheels?
7Wannabe5
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

jacob wrote:However, people are mostly concerned because it looks ugly rather than any spiritual loss.
Because they are not fully recognizing that the fact that it looks ugly is a spiritual loss. Humans are complex animals and our intuition can often better encompass complexity than our logic. For instance, a human might gain some insight into whether another human is healthy by examining a few health metrics, but there is a level on which simply looking at another human and determining whether they are sexually attractive is more likely to be correlated with physical health. We find flowers beautiful for almost exactly the same reason bees find flowers beautiful. Entering into the perspective that nature is like a lover, requiring consent, consideration and reciprocity, rather than an eternally bountiful and giving mother, does seem more appropriate for the situation we find ourselves in. The concept still incorporates a degree of intelligent dominant stewarship, but also joyful egalitarian playful participation, and submissive awe.

This really hits a sweet spot for me in the ways it is obviously very integrated with permaculture and pattern language in terms of the incorporation of human preferences, pleasures, and psychology into design. For instance, think about how much money/resources could be saved in our culture if humans comprehended the psychological reason they like to look across a lawn to some trees after spending their day in a cubicle.

Also, I am already designing my "gown" and body art, which will, obviously, be made of all natural materials and likely a mix of Native American and Viking design influences.

jacob
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by jacob »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:22 am
Because they are not fully recognizing that the fact that it looks ugly is a spiritual loss.
... which is why I don't consider them spiritual.

Henry
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by Henry »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:45 am
So, this performance art concept created by Annie Sprinkle and Beth Stephens is genius!
Well, I don't know about genius. But when considered in relation to other epochal shifts in humankind's understanding of his relationship to the natural world, it definitely falls somewhere between the Copernican Revolution and Bigfoot porn.

chenda
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by chenda »

@7w5 - Did you ever get to visit Iran ? I'm interested in Zoroastrianism, and I believe many Iranians are keen to emphasise the point they are not Arabs but Aryans/Indo-Europeans. The Islamic regime has had to walk a rather awkward historical type rope between fostering both Islamic and anti-arab nationalism, when it was the Arab invaders of the 7th century which brought Islam to Iran.

I can't say personally get very spiritual in nature, but I do sometimes in old buildings and historic landscapes. Walking the same streets and paths your ancestors walked for thousands of years. Hill forts and stone circles have a certain presence of past human life in my woo-woo mind.

Similarly I don't really resonate with Christianity per se but old churches still feel to me like hallowed ground, through centuries of human use and tradition. If those walls could speak and all that...

@jacob - yes the low rates of observed religiosity in northern Europe are often partly attributed to a 'existential insecurity theory' where strong welfare states and prosperity take away the much of the uncertainty and perceived need for religion. Also the lack of war doesn't require 'terror management' - there is evidence religiosity spikes in wartime, perhaps unsurprisingly.

rref
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by rref »

jacob wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:36 am
The typical Dane goes to church about as frequently as they go to the circus---maybe 3 times in their life. When they're born. When they marry. When they die.
Baptism, confirmation, wedding, funeral. They also attend all of those for family and friends. Churches are also usually packed at Christmas.

jacob
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by jacob »

rref wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2023 3:36 pm
Baptism, confirmation, wedding, funeral. They also attend all of those for family and friends. Churches are also usually packed at Christmas.
I think we're on the same page. Three times or four times or every Dec 24th, doesn't matter when comparing to 52 times a year every year for a lot of people in the US. Depending on how often one gets invited for one of those ceremonies. One Danish church typically serves a population of 3000-5000 people---one priest typically works several churches---and it's ONLY full at Christmas, otherwise mostly empty. So maybe 3% of the population actually shows up for such events (marriage, death, holidays...). My point is that this is completely different from the US.

rref
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by rref »

jacob wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:12 pm
My point is that this is completely different from the US.
Absolutely, but you were too harsh in the initial comparison, since 1 circus currently serves a population of six million people :lol:
Last edited by rref on Thu Nov 09, 2023 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

okumurahata
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by okumurahata »

chenda wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2023 7:01 am
You should come to southern Europe, you'll find plenty such women : )
Yes, Mediterranean countries are wonderful in that respect, and tropical countries are even more so. The more laid-back the country, the better. The challenge is that you have to compete with the stereotypical Latin lovers and outgoing Italians. It’s quite a tough league to be in…

Henry
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by Henry »

jacob wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:12 pm
My point is that this is completely different from the US.
One explanation for US vs European church membership and attendance stats is that founding fathers were prescient in purposely avoiding creation of national church, understanding tyrannical implications of imposed membership.

Freedom_2018
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by Freedom_2018 »

okumurahata wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:48 pm
Yes, Mediterranean countries are wonderful in that respect, and tropical countries are even more so. The more laid-back the country, the better. The challenge is that you have to compete with the stereotypical Latin lovers and outgoing Italians. It’s quite a tough league to be in…
Also consider that at least Spain in particular has through perhaps genetics and culture completely eradicated Introverts especially in the south! 😆

(writing this from the fast train from Leon to Madrid and on to Andalusia...public transport in Spain is clean, efficient and affordable.)

okumurahata
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by okumurahata »

Agreed, I’ve felt like a misfit my entire life here. However, I would argue that younger generations are not as extroverted as the older ones, possibly due to growing up with phones and social media. I sound like my father now…

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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by jacob »

I just realized that I've now been living in the same place for 9 years which is a record for me. The previous record was 7 years, but the median duration for me has been 3-4 years before relocating to a new city or country.

I'm wondering whether there's a connection between one's frequency of relocation and whether one leans homesteader or nomad? Of course this is somewhat of a chicken and egg problem. Do nomads move more often or do you become a nomad if you've never set down deep roots?

If you add up the cumulative miles I've relocated and put down a new residence, we're talking some 7000 miles. Conversely, the sum total of my parents' relocation is less than 100 miles. This also begets the question/observation that sometimes children do the exact opposite of their parents.

Freedom_2018
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by Freedom_2018 »

okumurahata wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2023 9:14 am
Agreed, I’ve felt like a misfit my entire life here. However, I would argue that younger generations are not as extroverted as the older ones, possibly due to growing up with phones and social media. I sound like my father now…
Agree on younger gen seeming more introverted in so much as assuming behaviours such as smiling, eye contact and ability to make social small talk is seen as extroverted since they spend a good part of their time in a medium where such behavior is not required.

We become what we do often.
Last edited by Freedom_2018 on Sat Nov 11, 2023 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Freedom_2018
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by Freedom_2018 »

jacob wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2023 9:41 am

If you add up the cumulative miles I've relocated and put down a new residence, we're talking some 7000 miles. Conversely, the sum total of my parents' relocation is less than 100 miles. This also begets the question/observation that sometimes children do the exact opposite of their parents.
In general relocation criteria across time probably ought to be measured by the means and ease of relocation (and voluntariness of travel) rather than miles....5000 miles in air-conditioned car/aircraft much different than 100 miles in horse and wooden wagon. Global travel with light luggage and credit card much different than Bataan Death March 😆.

I suppose if the nomad/homesteader question were put to Genghis Khan (infamous nomad), he might be puzzled since he had to 'nomad' to go after the 'good stuff'. If he had found it in his hometown, he might have been a homesteader. (definition of good stuff being variable for different folks).

chenda
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by chenda »

Freedom_2018 wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2023 6:28 am
Also consider that at least Spain in particular has through perhaps genetics and culture completely eradicated Introverts especially in the south! 😆
Portugal has much less of that type of culture than Spain or Italy. Although a male friend of mine was complaining that girls from club med were basically 'impossible' unlike slavic girls who are apparently much easier so YMMV...

okumurahata
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by okumurahata »

jacob wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2023 9:41 am
I just realized that I've now been living in the same place for 9 years which is a record for me. The previous record was 7 years, but the median duration for me has been 3-4 years before relocating to a new city or country.

I'm wondering whether there's a connection between one's frequency of relocation and whether one leans homesteader or nomad? Of course this is somewhat of a chicken and egg problem. Do nomads move more often or do you become a nomad if you've never set down deep roots?
There should be the Willy Fog (WF) scale, where, depending on the travel ratio, you fall at some point on the spectrum. For instance, I would define hard nomads as people who, on average, live in the same place for less than a year during their lifetime. However, we could also specify what constitutes a movement, such as changing cities within the same country. You could also stay in the same city but switch apartments frequently, which might also categorize you as a nomad.

Objective data: ~30 years in Barcelona (2 apartments), 1.5 years in Bangkok (4 apartments), 6 months Germany (1 apartment), the rest in different places for holidays or short stays. I would qualify as a homesteader, but data is biased because until 24, not much freedom of movement.
Last edited by okumurahata on Sat Nov 11, 2023 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

okumurahata
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by okumurahata »

chenda wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2023 10:13 am
Portugal has much less of that type of culture than Spain or Italy. Although a male friend of mine was complaining that girls from club med were basically 'impossible' unlike slavic girls who are apparently much easier so YMMV...
It would be nice to simulate how well you fit into a certain country without the need to physically go there. For instance, I would posit that INTJs might feel more at home in countries like the Nordic nations or Japan (perhaps Slavic as well) rather than the Mediterranean region. However, this is an unconfirmed hypothesis. What I can confirm from personal experience is that I feel like a different person depending on the country I’m living in. The same occurs for me when speaking a different language. That’s one of the reasons why I don’t feel that I belong to a place in particular.

jacob
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by jacob »

okumurahata wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2023 12:34 pm
It would be nice to simulate how well you fit into a certain country without the need to physically go there.
https://www.internations.org/expat-insider/
https://cms.in-cdn.net/cdn/file/cms-med ... Report.pdf

Somewhere on that site are diagrams showing each country in terms of how dynamic/conservative/welcoming/expressive it is but a brief google didn't reveal it. It has been discussed previously on the fourm though. This aligns well with temperament (I should probably move to Finland.)

Note, it's biased towards cosmopolitan professionals (overly educated salarymen).

7Wannabe5
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

I would probably find myself somewhat better in alignment with surrounding culture if I just crossed over the border to Canada, but doesn't quite seem worth the bother (yet.) I definitely was early influenced towards Liberal Green by all the Canadian Children's Broadcasting I watched as a child in suburban Detroit. Also, I find French-Canadians to be some of the world's most attractive humans. If I ever decide to switch "teams", it will be because I was seduced by French-Canadian hockey Mom. Although, I also hold an intuitive notion that my last partner will be a man of sub-continental Indian heritage.

chenda
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Re: Are you a Nomad or a Homesteader?

Post by chenda »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2023 1:38 pm
Also, I find French-Canadians to be some of the world's most attractive humans.
Possibly entirely unrelated but there was a French-Canadian couple who drifted through south east Asia in the 1970s and became serial killers. They were only caught due to the efforts of a young dutch diplomat. There is a great BBC/Netflix drama based on it called the serpent which according to my parents really captures the 1970s travel scene. Their indian accomplice is still at large iirc.

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