Recovering Spendaholic / Pay additional on mortgage ?

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CarNut
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Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:51 am

Post by CarNut »

I have been lurking and reading this site the last couple of weeks and it has really got me rethinking my habits and the true "cost" of them. It has really re-framed my thinking on what blowing money in the present means to your independence in the future.
I am 34yo and in the software industry. I have a pretty high income and travel over 50% of the time, typically US + Canada but some far away places as well.
I have been following MMM for quite a while and he mentioned ERE in one of his posts and I immediately added ERE to my news/blog reader app on my phone, don't worry it is a company phone, I never see the bill :)
One of my bad habits is vehicles, yes plural, and a bunch of toys. I will probably start a thread just for that as I know I need to make some modifications there, I just don't want to at this point.
The only debt I have is mortgage debt.
I have, what I would think, a very aggressive savings/investment habit until I read what some of the others save on this site. I currently save about 50% of my net income and may be able to get around to 60% with some additional effort.
As a newbie here one question I have is regarding my mortgage situation. I recently refinanced for 15 years at 3.375%. I am currently paying $400 additional (50% extra) on that but I am thinking I may be better off as an inflation hedge using that money in a dividend focused mutual fund or ETF. I would really like to pay it off in 10 or so years as I would like to semi-retire around 45 so it would be paid off before then. Thoughts would be appreciated.


George the original one
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Location: Wettest corner of Orygun

Post by George the original one »

If you can't say what your investment returns would be from a dividend-focused portfolio, then it's less likely that you would find that as a better investment.
However... my own rule of thumb is you should not rush to pay off a mortgage under 4.5%. Investing in a taxable account and focusing on dividend growth yielding over 3.5% and/or 6+% stable yield, you should come out ahead compared to the mortage. There are exceptions, of course, like if you're not getting any deduction for the mortgage interest or you're already retired and can pay off the mortgage in one or two payments.
If you're letting others manage your investments, then I'd lean a little more towards paying off the mortgage as you have more control then.
[At the other end of the spectrum, any loan charging over 6% should be paid off ASAP or refinanced]


CarNut
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:51 am

Post by CarNut »

Thank you for the reply George, I think we are on the same page as the faster I pay it off, the sooner I lose the mortgage interest deduction. If the gov't takes that away or phases it out by income it changes that equation for sure. When my accountant told me I made too much to deduct student loan interest I paid it off entirely in the next year. That could be a topic as well in the politics section of whether some should be able to deduct that interest and not others.
Also to note, I max out my Roth IRA and 401k so I need to put this money in a taxable account unless I become a freelancer to open up some more options.
Part of the reason I was leaning ETF over a mutual fund with this money is that some of the capital gains wouldn't trigger until I make withdrawals and theoretically I would be in a lower tax bracket when that time comes. It isn't a matter of "if" the money gets taxed, it is when and with an ETF that is more controllable.


George the original one
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Location: Wettest corner of Orygun

Post by George the original one »

Well you can skip the "if" by buying into a muni bond fund... yields in the 7% range are common.


Spartan_Warrior
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:24 am

Post by Spartan_Warrior »

Hmm, I am in a somewhat similar position, although my mortgage is 30-year, at 4.875%. I am currently planning to pay it down 600 dollars extra per month to have it paid off in 15 years, and actually contemplating more to get it paid off sooner, but extra contributions would come at a cost to 401k and Roth IRA savings. I'm not sure I mind given the way the market's performed and seems likely to continue performing. A guaranteed, non-volatile return is a rare thing in this market and will likely remain that way for some time. Dividends aren't safe if the stock tanks. Just to play the contrarian.


CarNut
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:51 am

Post by CarNut »

Another option I forgot to mention is converting additional Traditional IRA money to Roth. I did a portion of that to split between 2011 and 12 tax years. At 34 I think that paying that tax now to have tax free growth at 59.5+ is a good bet.
@ George, I like the muni idea since I think investors are irrationally punishing those because of perceived default risk.
@ Spartan, if you can afford the $600 extra a month have you run the numbers for doing a refi to a 15 or 20? I realize it takes away some flexibility but, depending on where you live and what your credit is like, you may have the potential to get into a shorter term without much sacrifice.


Spartan_Warrior
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:24 am

Post by Spartan_Warrior »

I haven't actually run numbers, no. I've only owned the house for about six months and when I bought it, I wouldn't have qualified for the 15 year--got a big raise since. I might look into it, but I also like the comfort of being able to pay the minimum if need be. If the shit hits the fan or I need to move temporarily, I know I can get the 30 year mortgage payment in rent. As I get more secure, I'll reconsider.


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