Hello ERE Inspirations -
I'm a long time lurker (I'm really not much of a joiner typically) who got frustratingly stuck in the 21 day makeover a few years ago. So while occasionally stopping by the site over the last year I haven't taken enough concrete steps on the road to ERE. I cut cable, landline, and housecleaner but couldn't sell the condo and ditch the extra bedroom so I've stagnated a bit.
The breakthrough for me was this July when I was on vacation and started crying (hence the moniker) while thinking about going back to the office. It was a depressing moment and not even all that much about my job (which I actually like) but about time and freedom which seem so elusive.
I'm a 36 year old female in the Pacific Northwest where I've worked at a dot com for the last decade. I'd like to retire by 45 but I need to make actually progress on living on less. I'm hoping that by actively participating in the forums I will stay goal focused and succeed in getting on the road to ERE. My immediate goals are budgeting and finding a cheaper place to live so a year from now I'm not having the same conversations with myself about what to do with the condo and the amount of $$ I waste in exorbitant bar and restaurant tabs.
I'm considering moving into my parents guest house so I read the threads on living with your parents with great interest but I'm particularly curious to hear any stories success/failure with regards to increasing commute time by 10x in order to take advantage of cheaper (or free housing).
Before I take the plunge and move that far away I'm going to do the practice commute for a week in September but I wonder if there are any learnings from the experts on commute/ move from the city to the suburbs.
Many thanks for all your inspiration and advice to come - CITP
Hello & novice seeking commute advice
How much do you stand to save by moving, how much is 10x commute, and how long do you estimate before FI? If you already dislike going to work, significantly increasing commute time is likely to make this worse, increasing the chance you will burn out before hitting your savings goal. On the other hand, if moving saves you so much money that it significantly reduces your estimated time to FI, it could be worth tolerating an increased commute for that shortened period. Without more info, both options seem plausible -- a practice commute sounds like a great idea.
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ICouldBeTheWalrus
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 3:00 am
Beware. A long commute can be hell. It certainly depends on your personality and how you do that commute. My own experience was that a commute that was over an hour long each way and on two different trains was pretty hard for me (perhaps because my job involves lots of time around people already.)
Personally, I'd look for ways of downsizing a bit that don't involve a long commute.
Personally, I'd look for ways of downsizing a bit that don't involve a long commute.
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CryingInThePool
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:32 am
Informal telecommuting -a random work from home day here or there- is OK but unfortunately not as a regular schedule. I’m also kicking around offering house-sitting services to coworkers and friends to break up the long haul.
My commute would go from ~10 mins to 1:45 (each way) – although an hour of that is by boat (with wifi) so I’m counting that as work time. In my conservative estimate I would save just over $50k by my 40th bday; seemed like such a boon/otherwise waste that I’d be crazy not to try and see if I can’t get to my goal years earlier.
It was actually a comment here “if I need to live in a tent or even in a tarp for some time so I could get to ERE quicker, I wouldn't think twice about it.” (I copied it down but not the author- sorry) that got me motivated to really do the math. I wouldn’t be in a tent but if it got me to my goal earlier shouldn’t I consider the sucky commute? There’s probably even more to be saved in that it would help limit the amount of after work drinks and dinner spending not to mention just general cost of living savings between the city and the ‘burbs.
My hometown is also where I plan to live post ERE so the move and the acclamation wouldn’t be wasted effort - it’s just the commute/physical costs and mental/social costs that concern me. Feeling unsettled and squatting with long work days for just over 3 years….
I guess I’ll see how the test week commute goes but if there’s any other group knowledge or advice to glean the commentary like above is much appreciated. Thx - CITP
My commute would go from ~10 mins to 1:45 (each way) – although an hour of that is by boat (with wifi) so I’m counting that as work time. In my conservative estimate I would save just over $50k by my 40th bday; seemed like such a boon/otherwise waste that I’d be crazy not to try and see if I can’t get to my goal years earlier.
It was actually a comment here “if I need to live in a tent or even in a tarp for some time so I could get to ERE quicker, I wouldn't think twice about it.” (I copied it down but not the author- sorry) that got me motivated to really do the math. I wouldn’t be in a tent but if it got me to my goal earlier shouldn’t I consider the sucky commute? There’s probably even more to be saved in that it would help limit the amount of after work drinks and dinner spending not to mention just general cost of living savings between the city and the ‘burbs.
My hometown is also where I plan to live post ERE so the move and the acclamation wouldn’t be wasted effort - it’s just the commute/physical costs and mental/social costs that concern me. Feeling unsettled and squatting with long work days for just over 3 years….
I guess I’ll see how the test week commute goes but if there’s any other group knowledge or advice to glean the commentary like above is much appreciated. Thx - CITP
So you're saving around $500/mo but spending an extra 65 hours per month commuting -> $7.69/hr (saved, not earned). Things to consider:
Will you be extra exhausted at the end of the day and more likely to eat prepackaged food or eat out?
If you do 2 hours of work per day on the boat, does that really reduce your time in the office by 2 hours or are you just giving free productivity to your employer?
What will you do with the condo? Do you expect to sell it or rent it out? I assume you included the proceeds in the savings estimate?
I'm not trying to discourage you, because some people can definitely make something like this work. Personally, I probably could not, so I'm trying to probe the issues I might have.
Will you be extra exhausted at the end of the day and more likely to eat prepackaged food or eat out?
If you do 2 hours of work per day on the boat, does that really reduce your time in the office by 2 hours or are you just giving free productivity to your employer?
What will you do with the condo? Do you expect to sell it or rent it out? I assume you included the proceeds in the savings estimate?
I'm not trying to discourage you, because some people can definitely make something like this work. Personally, I probably could not, so I'm trying to probe the issues I might have.
A little bit of sacrifice and the challenge of reducing expenses can be a good practice, both for increasing the savings in the accumulation phase and reducing the outfow in the ERE phase.
But I want to echo the sentiments of those who point out that a hellish commute has a synergistic effect on a hellish job. If you hate the job, and hate the effort needed to get to and from it; you're leaving very little time in the remainder of your day to love life. Even a one hour commute means less than five hours of free time (assuming an hour to get ready in the a.m., 8 & 1/2 on the job + lunch, 1/2 hour to decompress from the work + commute angst, and 7 hours of sleep).
Put another way, would you consider selling a kidney in a developing country to hasten ERE? If yes, you are WAY more hardcore than 95% of us here. If no, then why would you sell a piece of your soul to hasten ERE? Better to reduce your income and at least enjoy some peace of mind in the accumulation phase.
But I want to echo the sentiments of those who point out that a hellish commute has a synergistic effect on a hellish job. If you hate the job, and hate the effort needed to get to and from it; you're leaving very little time in the remainder of your day to love life. Even a one hour commute means less than five hours of free time (assuming an hour to get ready in the a.m., 8 & 1/2 on the job + lunch, 1/2 hour to decompress from the work + commute angst, and 7 hours of sleep).
Put another way, would you consider selling a kidney in a developing country to hasten ERE? If yes, you are WAY more hardcore than 95% of us here. If no, then why would you sell a piece of your soul to hasten ERE? Better to reduce your income and at least enjoy some peace of mind in the accumulation phase.
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BeyondtheWrap
- Posts: 598
- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:38 pm
- Location: NYC
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CryingInThePool
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:32 am
I do drive a car - it was a gift so no payments just insurance/gas/maint on me.
The comments here have been super helpful. Fact is I've been meaning to try the longer commute for more than 2 days in a row for a while and I keep putting it off. That doesn't bode well for the day to day grind but the $$ kept me pushing down this path.
I'm still going to do the test commute but I've also added a couple of new models to my comparison 1)getting roomate in the guest bedroom of the condo 2)renting condo but staying in the city in smaller cheaper place.
If I can get the differential down I think I'm willing to allow a certain value of my time @65hrs a month in commuting (which when dragoncar spelled out made me kinda sick).
The comments here have been super helpful. Fact is I've been meaning to try the longer commute for more than 2 days in a row for a while and I keep putting it off. That doesn't bode well for the day to day grind but the $$ kept me pushing down this path.
I'm still going to do the test commute but I've also added a couple of new models to my comparison 1)getting roomate in the guest bedroom of the condo 2)renting condo but staying in the city in smaller cheaper place.
If I can get the differential down I think I'm willing to allow a certain value of my time @65hrs a month in commuting (which when dragoncar spelled out made me kinda sick).
An option that wasn't mentioned, if it was I missed it, is getting a second job. If you are going to be spending 65 hours a month commuting, that's a lot of hours you could just spend working.
The second job would essentially be paying for your condo (I assume you own it), which would be like a bank account for you when you sell it. You would eventually get this money back. Maybe not with interest given the current housing market, but to me that is better than having a second "commuting job" for 65 hours a month that doesn't pay you and actually costs you money.
Keep in mind that the $7.69/hr calculation is actually high. You would have to factor in the cost of the commute. It sounds like you would be on public transportation (boat?) some or all of it, but that still adds up.
Plus, your condo sounds like it's in the middle of everything or very close to everything. This means that in 10-20 years it's value will probably appreciate faster than suburban homes, as gas prices will make living closer to work more appealing to more people.
The second job would essentially be paying for your condo (I assume you own it), which would be like a bank account for you when you sell it. You would eventually get this money back. Maybe not with interest given the current housing market, but to me that is better than having a second "commuting job" for 65 hours a month that doesn't pay you and actually costs you money.
Keep in mind that the $7.69/hr calculation is actually high. You would have to factor in the cost of the commute. It sounds like you would be on public transportation (boat?) some or all of it, but that still adds up.
Plus, your condo sounds like it's in the middle of everything or very close to everything. This means that in 10-20 years it's value will probably appreciate faster than suburban homes, as gas prices will make living closer to work more appealing to more people.
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sethwmiller
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:26 am
Would your work schedule be somewhat flexible so you could start later in the day? I know for me the toughest thing about longer commutes is having to start my day so much earlier then I would like.
I would also encourage you to your options for renting out the additional space in your condo. It may be a difficult dynamic to be a live-in landlord but it seems like it would be worth looking in to. If you live near a university you may be able to find graduate students who aren't looking for much space.
I would also encourage you to your options for renting out the additional space in your condo. It may be a difficult dynamic to be a live-in landlord but it seems like it would be worth looking in to. If you live near a university you may be able to find graduate students who aren't looking for much space.
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LiquidSapphire
- Posts: 510
- Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:40 pm
Hi -
I can only speak from my experience and knowlegdge, I suspect I used to live in the same area as you but if not perhaps my thoughts might help anyway.
I for a time lived in Bremerton WA which is about a 1 hour ferry ride from Downtown Seattle. The boat ride is about 1 hour. So here are some tips and tricks from someone who rode the ferries on occasion and someone that knew people that did all the time
1) Riding a motorcycle/moped/bicycle/walking on is FAR FAR preferred to driving on. The wait times for cars on the way back are really crazy. Don't expect to show up with your car at 4:00 to be able to get on the 4:20 boat. You will be waiting for the 5:30, or even 6:30. With the other modes of transportation, you skip the queue. As long as you show up around 4:15, you're good.
2) The ferry schedules are not such that one leaves every 5 minutes, one leaves every 90 minutes. How much control do you have over your work schedule? Do you know with certainty that you'll catch the boat you want to catch at least 98% of the time? Missing the boat SUCKS.... Take your 1:45 one way commute and add 1:30 to it... that is the cost of delay. If it's going to happen more than once a month, it would be enough to put me off of this commute. Also, how much patience do you have for ferry break downs, or ferries being late, and would your employer be OK with them? I don't know how common they are nowadays, but it felt like once a month there was always some kind of problem.
3) In favor of the ferry commute, some people really turn it into productive time. There are massive lines of power plug ins in the girls' bathroom, you see people doing their hair and makeup there all the time. Take a shower, get on the boat with your wet hair and do it there. People read/work on the net, etc all the time. You also see people doing laps on the boat, getting in their daily exercise. The walk ons, if they are early, scope out the bench seats and take naps.
That said, I changed my 30 minute commute to a 70 minute one and I'm exploring going carless. For me, I enjoy reading blogs and books so I just do it on the bus now rather than at home. I never was too productive in that extra 40 minutes at home and so the longer commute to me is worth it, if I can ditch my car. Of course if you're tied to having a car, the extra $3 in gas it cost me a day wasn't a big deal really, it's being able to ditch the maintenance/insurance that really make it attractive.
Hope this helps.
I can only speak from my experience and knowlegdge, I suspect I used to live in the same area as you but if not perhaps my thoughts might help anyway.
I for a time lived in Bremerton WA which is about a 1 hour ferry ride from Downtown Seattle. The boat ride is about 1 hour. So here are some tips and tricks from someone who rode the ferries on occasion and someone that knew people that did all the time
1) Riding a motorcycle/moped/bicycle/walking on is FAR FAR preferred to driving on. The wait times for cars on the way back are really crazy. Don't expect to show up with your car at 4:00 to be able to get on the 4:20 boat. You will be waiting for the 5:30, or even 6:30. With the other modes of transportation, you skip the queue. As long as you show up around 4:15, you're good.
2) The ferry schedules are not such that one leaves every 5 minutes, one leaves every 90 minutes. How much control do you have over your work schedule? Do you know with certainty that you'll catch the boat you want to catch at least 98% of the time? Missing the boat SUCKS.... Take your 1:45 one way commute and add 1:30 to it... that is the cost of delay. If it's going to happen more than once a month, it would be enough to put me off of this commute. Also, how much patience do you have for ferry break downs, or ferries being late, and would your employer be OK with them? I don't know how common they are nowadays, but it felt like once a month there was always some kind of problem.
3) In favor of the ferry commute, some people really turn it into productive time. There are massive lines of power plug ins in the girls' bathroom, you see people doing their hair and makeup there all the time. Take a shower, get on the boat with your wet hair and do it there. People read/work on the net, etc all the time. You also see people doing laps on the boat, getting in their daily exercise. The walk ons, if they are early, scope out the bench seats and take naps.
That said, I changed my 30 minute commute to a 70 minute one and I'm exploring going carless. For me, I enjoy reading blogs and books so I just do it on the bus now rather than at home. I never was too productive in that extra 40 minutes at home and so the longer commute to me is worth it, if I can ditch my car. Of course if you're tied to having a car, the extra $3 in gas it cost me a day wasn't a big deal really, it's being able to ditch the maintenance/insurance that really make it attractive.
Hope this helps.