pteah's Ramblings

[pteah]

Hi All,

Age :: 35

Wages :: $1,770 net pay bi-weekly
Rent/Utilities :: $1,250 (I live in a small little dilapidated beach shack in one of the most expensive cities in the U.S.A.

Net Worth ::

Vanguard :: $160,078
401k from previous job: $61,150
401k from current job: $21,968
Crypto: $3208
Cash: $50,000
Student Loans :: (-$2,000)

Advantages towards ERE life ::

1). no car at the moment, work from home, miss the convenience of a vehicle sometimes on weekends, but do not intend on getting a car anytime soon

2). Certified to Teach English as a Second Language, could branch into a more relaxed lifestyle if I grow weary of current job.

3). Cheap Android cell phone, still on family plan, grandfathered in, recently went 6 months w/out a phone, it was awesome

4). Don't really care what the neighbors think of me.

Disadvantages:

1). Chronic health problem, requiring twice-daily medication. With GoodRX, the medications cost $100-150/month here, in Thailand, they cost me around $300/month. I haven't tried purchasing my medication elsewhere in the world, want to see what they might cost in Malaysia, Japan, Brazil at at some point

2). Got 'bored' with dumping money into Vanguard bi-weekly, didn't invest from 2022-2024, cost myself considerably in theoretical investment returns. Now back on the DCA train.

3). Collect physical media (music, some movies & books, almost always buy used/thrifted/throwaway stuff).

4). Lazy with food spending/food prep, leading to spending indiscriminately on food daily and weekly. Undoubtedly my biggest dollar suck daily/weekly/monthly.

5). Women ---------> Kids probably sometime in my 40s

6). I haven't tried, but am not sure how much more, if anything, I could grow my salary. Studied a social science at uni.

[pteah]

During my investing lapse, I jumped back into a mindless consumption lifestyle, partially because I relocated from the Midwest to my new home, but mainly because I think I was "bored." I don't even care about clothes.

I probably spent $2,000 - $2,500 on new clothes and a bunch of shoes. Some of this stuff still has the tags on it. I'd like to start unloading some of this stuff, maybe on eBay.

Anyway, it began to occur to me that despite having all of this crap, I really only wore the same handful of things over and over again. Usually I would lug my stuff down to the laundromat every two weeks and do 2 loads of laundry x 2 loads in the dryer.

I started an 'experiment' about a month ago, curious if intentionally restricting my wardrobe had any affect on overall happiness, or was dramatically more inconvenient.

I dug around here a bit, looking at threads and Jacob's blog posts on 'minimalist' wardrobes, etc, trying to determine what was the least amount of clothes I could own. Part of this may've been inspired by spending about a year traveling out of a suitcase and working remotely last year. On the road, when I needed a new shirt or two, I'd head to the mall or local market pick up what I needed, and discard the worn items.

I now do my laundry every Friday night/weekend, and instead of 'dreading' the ever-growing pile of used clothes needing washing, doing the laundry every week is now just a smooth, seamless part of my weekly routine. If anything, artificially constricting my wardrobe options seems to have increased my happiness.

And so what is the smallest wardrobe you can have before things star getting inconvenient? What do you all think?

I have more of each item than when I have listed below, but am thinking of whittle things down until my complete wardrobe looks like the below:

Shoes :: 2 pairs of athletic/everyday shoes (1 as a back-up in case the other pair gets wet)
1 pair of dress shoes (I currently do not own any dress shoes, and was reprimanded by a family member for wearing a rather dilapidated pair of basketball shoes to a wedding)

Underwear/Socks: 10 pairs of each

T-shirts: 7-10 total
Shorts: 7-10 total (they take up very little space, are cheap at D&D's Discounts, my favorite clothing item by far)
Pants: 7-8 pairs
Sweatshirts/Hoodies: 7-10 total
Dress clothes: Job dependent of course, 1 nice shirt, a nicer pair of pants
Jacket: 1 winter Jacket, 1 rain jacket

[loutfard]

And so what is the smallest wardrobe you can have before things star getting inconvenient? What do you all think?

No numbers from me, but some remarks on clothing. I hope they help.

- T-shirts. In winter, I wear free t-shirts under a warm upper layer. Conference t-shirts, mostly.
- Hoodies. I occasionally wear these, mostly when doing physical work on a colder day.
- Underwear. My pile of it was falling towards my comfortable minimum of about a week's supply plus a few spares when my mother suddenly found me a pile of ten new ones somewhere. "Good quality. Not very fashionable. I thought you might be able to make good use of these."
- Socks. A few months ago, my wife decided it was time for three pairs of new socks for me. Now she's knitting me a few very comfortable woolen pairs.
- I hardly wear shirts. I have a few should the situation demand it.
- Formal dress. Last year, a close relative got married. I lost enough weight in time to fit my thirty years old suit.
- Pull-overs. My wife very kindly mended my very nice fine wool (cashmere?) one for me. I have a few more. All old ones.
- Zipper cardigans. Really handy when cycling in somewhat colder weather. I have a few good quality almost indestructible ones. Two are sixteen years old. The other was left by a tenant at our place years ago.
- Trousers are an item not to always spontaneously appear. I bought seven pairs last summer at the second hand supermarket for about 17.7€. A very cheap traditional pair of shorts recently too when in the tropics and my only pair was getting really smelly.
- Footwear. I own a pair of hand-me-down very nice leather shoes. For daily use, I have a pair of cheap goretex ones, bought in a hurry when my old walking boots fell apart on holiday.
- Jackets. I have one at home and one at the summer house. All rain repellant breathable. The last one was a very good one never claimed from a year-old conference lost and found box. My spies know to be on the lookout for a waxed cotton or similar one.

I think the pattern is clear. I own slightly more clothing than needed. This provides some slack. I hardly ever have to buy clothes in a rush. This keeps cost down.

[delay]

Thanks for starting your journal!

And so what is the smallest wardrobe you can have before things star getting inconvenient? What do you all think?

That's interesting. I've been wearing clothes longer before I wash and buy no new clothes. It's surprising how far I can shrink my wardrobe without discomfort!

For shoes, I'm on running shoes, sandals, walking shoes, cycling shoes, and old running shoes for chores. So five pair seems to be the minimum. Seems very personal though.

[Stasher]

I would say welcome to the forums but you have been lurking for awhile, so instead I will say welcome to the journal section Petah.

I personally really enjoy having a lean wardrobe, nobody cares what you are wearing and won't notice if you wear the same thing often. You can also wear clothes a lot longer than you think between washings. Sure t-shirts, socks and underwear get changed and cleaned nearly daily but my jeans will usually be a month and same goes for my go to hoodie. I could write a bunch here but I have always enjoyed the experiments Matt D'avella has shared on his youtube channels. What I like is he also shares when an idea or experiment fails or he was wrong about something. Fortunately like him, I'm a black jeans black tshirt kinda guy.

https://youtu.be/PWl6t4agmtw?si=IaLQDK1aUtWzwSPF

https://youtu.be/NlcBA8s22BA?si=QxnVuTJuXufRo4Jt

My only important clarification for myself is that I am very active in running, backpacking and cycling which requires its own unique footwear and clothing so that does add to what I own. For this category though I buy high quality brands and literally wear them out completely.

[delay]

I could write a bunch here but I have always enjoyed the experiments Matt D'avella has shared on his youtube channels.

Thanks for sharing. Matt owns fifteen grey shirts, a bit excessive!

Matt says nobody notices what you wear. That's not my experience. Colleagues comment on what I wear. Even strangers can compliment me for wearing a t-shirt with a nice drawing or message or a colorful shirt.

[pteah]

Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone! Appreciate it. I lost a long response I had written up after clicking on one of those YouTube videos. Been a while since I've posted on a forum!

Loutfard: I think this is the answer here. Thanks for describing the solution to this issue so succinctly.

I think the pattern is clear. I own slightly more clothing than needed. This provides some slack. I hardly ever have to buy clothes in a rush. This keeps cost down.

The handmade socks are an interesting option from a quality and longevity standpoint. I own a quartet of hand-sewn/woven shirts from Asia. I opt for $5-$10 shirts on a daily basis, but the handmade button-ups always attract compliments when I wear them. Too bad they require a more specific washing & drying regimen.

What constitutes traditional shorts in your neck of the woods?

It's surprising how far I can shrink my wardrobe without discomfort!

Hi Delay, yes, it really is interesting how lean you can take things without making yourself uncomfortable!

I live by the beach and have sandals, but just wear low-top basketball shoes to beach. When living in the midwest, I went without winter boots - a thick pair of wool, double-lined socks kept my feet warm enough as I walked to work in basketball shoes. I suppose I look out of place sometimes. Oh well.

I do have 3-4 pairs of shoes scattered near my front door, and another 8-10 pairs stashed in my closet.

hi Smashter, I disagree with you (and agree with delay) - combine the most jarring colors you have in your wardrobe, and head out on the town. Clothes that intentionally clash, or some insane combo. Guaranteed to have a person or two compliment your outfit.

I discovered this phenomenon mistakenly, by just grabbing items on the top of the 'recently washed' pile, throwing them on without a second thought and walking around. After getting randomly complimented for my clothes for the first time in my life, I explained to a buddy over the phone that I just started "wearing whatever I wanted, even if it didn't match, just kinda screwing around," only to have people compliment me several times.

thanks for sharing those videos from D'avella - I didn't know who about him. And I do agree with you. Most of my hoodies can go a couple of wearings between washes if necessary. And while there have been times I have been complimented on my outfit(s), there have also been times while wearing some older/stained items that I have been confused for being a member of the local homeless population

I respect you for your ambitious outdoors hobbies. Seems tempting to make those kindsa hobbies more expensive than they need to be. My roommate does all of that stuff - kayaking, ocean swimming, skiing, and not a week goes buy that he isn't purchasing some new accessory. (He's ERE-oriented, too, but this domain is where he likes to spend his cash.)

[Stasher]

Only you will make your hobbies more expensive....the physical recreation need not be that way and thrifting, especially the rise of sport focused consignment/second hand options as well as online market places allow this.

Yourself and delay focusing on the color of the clothing in the video is missing the point, it was about intentionality and reduction of what you own. If you want bright colors then rock the life you want to live, want patterns with laser beams and kittens, rock that. I am in the clothing industry, I totally get it.

[pteah]

Wow! Would love to hear about your experiences working in the clothing industry. Thanks, Stasher, i've enjoyed talking to you about this stuff

[jacob]

I started an 'experiment' about a month ago, curious if intentionally restricting my wardrobe had any affect on overall happiness, or was dramatically more inconvenient.

I dug around here a bit, looking at threads and Jacob's blog posts on 'minimalist' wardrobes, etc, trying to determine what was the least amount of clothes I could own. Part of this may've been inspired by spending about a year traveling out of a suitcase and working remotely last year. On the road, when I needed a new shirt or two, I'd head to the mall or local market pick up what I needed, and discard the worn items.

I now do my laundry every Friday night/weekend, and instead of 'dreading' the ever-growing pile of used clothes needing washing, doing the laundry every week is now just a smooth, seamless part of my weekly routine. If anything, artificially constricting my wardrobe options seems to have increased my happiness.

And so what is the smallest wardrobe you can have before things star getting inconvenient? What do you all think?

I've found that it depends on three things:
1) What you do. Do you need specific clothes for work or public appearances (business or business casual) or does anything go?
2) Your laundry cycle. Do you do your laundry alone in a machine? Do you do it by hand? Do you throw your laundry in with the rest of the family.
3) How many "seasons" do you need to cover. By seasons I mean range of both indoor climate, work climate ditto, and outdoor climate.

The smallest wardrobes are those with a very stable climate that's practically same both indoors and outdoors (think California) so you don't need to change clothes when going from one to the other. Ditto if summer/winter falls within a narrow range too. Without many different activities, wardrobe size also goes down, but if you do office work, gardening, basketball, and sailing, it goes up significantly. Finally, if you do your own laundry solo and don't want to handwash (daily), it makes sense to have just enough clothes to do full loads (no more, no less).

I've personally been guilty of "must wear it to shreds before getting rid of it". This means I still own a reserve of legacy clothes. It just fills a suitcase in my closet. Effectively, I don't use more clothes than fits in a carry-on. I've taken to just throwing "the users" in a rubbermaid crate w/o folding it after it's washed and dried. There's so little of it that I can easily pick out what I need w/o having to search. I have about a 4-6 day rotation between doing laundry with DW.

Strategically, I've always thought of the wardrobe as a system I add stuff to if I have new needs AND subtract from when items are worn out. I've never done a "clean reset" or built a wardrobe from scratch. That might be interesting. FWIW, I'm not all that interested in clothes.

[ertyu]

about minimum necessary wardrobe, the concept of a "capsule wardrobe" might be useful. It was an "influencer" thing a while ago so you'll find a ton of content you'll need to sift through, but the concepts apply. The capsule wardrobe's advantage is that it's geared towards an urban college student or office worker, in other words, someone who is to some extent concerned with appearance -- for them, appearance is one of the functions clothes have to fulfill.

[pteah]

hi ertyu,

'absolutely minimum wardrobe' - great phrase! i enjoyed watching some of these capsule wardrobe videos, thank you for pointing me in the direction of this concept. fun to see the shiny influencer class promote a certain style of limited consumption, "contains paid promotion" banners at the beginning of the videos and all!

hi jacob,

first, thanks for changing my life! fall of 2015 sitting in a matchbox-sized, fan-only, shared-bathroom guesthouse in Vientiane, Laos, I googled "how to retire as early as possible" and came across your blog and forum. Spent hours reading and absorbing, feeling hopeful about the direction of my life all of a sudden. went home a month later, picked up as a job as a fry cook, transitioned into low-level hospital supply/transport work shortly thereafter, saved $100k in cash over 3 years, started investing in 2019. i didn't start investing early enough (and consistently enough over time!) to be comfortably ERE right now, but i could probably stop working right now if given no other option. thank you!

1). Work from home means basketball shorts, t-shirts, and hoodies. let's hope that return-to-office mandate never hits my inbox.

2). Nearest laundromat is about 8-10 minute walk from the house, so the once-per-week laundry cadence probably suits me best. If i had a combo washer-dryer unit it house, would be fun to try and pare down to 3 days for everyday wear stuff.

washed some stuff in the sink back in my early-20s. not particularly eager to revisit that (never felt like things got as 'clean' that way), but it would be fun to buy a disposable pool, fill it with water/detergent and see how inconvenient washing things by hand is relative to laundromat.

3). The constancy of the climate here in SoCalifornia certainly has its perks. interestingly, being close to the water, i spend just as much time (if not more) every year in hoodies/pants than i did back in the upper Midwest.

interesting - so a rubbermaid's worth of clothes for everyday wear + legacy/well-worn back-ups in the roller suitcase. something to aspire to.

4). forgot to mention earlier - i'm nearly bald now, so ball caps or sunscreen are required. never wore a hat when i had hair. have about 5 hats in the rotation, but have somehow managed to acquire/accumulate approximately 15-20. one more thing for the eBay pile/Salvation Army box.

I'm glad to have generated discussion on this matter, despite not being particularly interested in clothes myself!

upon some reflection, i suppose it was fun moving to California and getting swept up in that unrelenting tidal wave of mindless consumption, especially having never tried it before (never had the money, and then laser focused on saving while wearing hospital scrubs 40+ hrs/week.) ultimately, though, it all feels meaningless in the end. and now i'm staring down the barrel of all of this crap. Cheers, all!