Early Retirement Extreme Forums

I’ve been wanting to improve my reading for speed, comprehension, and recall. Unfortunately, the skill seems to have atrophied since university. I find myself spacing out a lot when I read, and though I typically enjoy the process, I’m doubtful as to how much I’m actually remembering. I went through just under 20 books last year and want continue with non-fiction plus tackle investing and econ textbooks. Considering the greater challenge of textbooks, I’m procrastinating with the easier non-fiction material. I’m wondering about lateralization or finding flow type mindset to get there.

Anyways, I’m looking for feedback on how to improve.

From a little searching online, I’m finding resources around English as a Second Language (not applicable) or Speed Reading (not exactly what I’m looking for). Years ago, I picked up Adler’s “How to Read a Book”, which I was more recently reminded of in Hagstrom’s “Investing: Last Liberal Art”. I didn’t get through the Adler book back then, feeling like the strategies take the enjoyment and relaxation out of the activity. Maybe it’s worth another shot.

A couple chapters into Sterner’s “The Practicing Mind”, I recognize I could take a more active approach to the practice. I was thinking about looking for a class of some sort, but paying registration fees would be antithetical to frugality. There’s a lot on YT and I found a reference to the KWL method (Know, Want to know, Learned): https://asc.tamu.edu/study-learning-han ... kwl-method. There are some other reading resource pages on that site that are of interest as well.

If anyone has thoughts to share, thank you in advance.

The key to comprehension is to restate/rephrase the content in your own words via a process of active recall.

I think it's an error to spend any time trying to improve speed in terms of words read per minute, because that's a tactical focus. Instead, take a strategic approach and focus on attaining insights, knowledge, or wisdom from your non-fic reading.

When beginning to read a book, check in with yourself about what you want out of that particular book. Do you want a high-level overview of concepts of an unfamiliar field? Do you want to envelop your brain in the depths and nooks and crannies of a niche topic, in pursuit of mastery for the love of it? Is there a particular decision in your life you want help making, and the concepts in that book will help with? Your answer to these questions will guide what kind of approach you should take to each book, inclusive of not reading the book.

Your mind might be wandering because it's smarter than you and it doesn't actually care about whatever you're reading. Maybe it knows that you like the idea of learning topics XYZ, but you don't actually like those topics. Maybe it's learned that you never do anything with what you read, anyway, so it's learned it can zone out without consequence (vs university, when you needed to pass exams). Be honest with yourself. Why do you think you care about these books? Spend some time figuring this out at a level of comprehension that will seem excessive.

A fun thought experiment: Try reading a manual on how to disassemble the bottom end of a Honda CRF250L motor. How much information will you retain? Scenario 1: you don't even own a motorcycle or care about them. Scenario 2: you own a CRF250L in perfect working order. Scenario 3: You own a CRF250L, you want to ride it, but something in the bottom end is broken and you need to get in there and fix it, and you've got one month to fix it before going on an adventure on the bike in the direction of a new romantic interest. Think your speed and reading comprehension levels will vary?

Ahren's How to Take Smart Notes and Scott Young's blog posts and book on Ultralearning provide solid principles wrt reading/studying/comprehension.

Your mind also might be wandering because you are training it to have a short attention span with internet stuff.

tl;dr: find specific topics you actually truly deeply care about learning and be able to articulate very precise Why statements for that, and then read the books and engage in active recall (writing/talking about the book in your own words).

AxelHeyst wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 06, 2025 6:25 pm

I think it's an error to spend any time trying to improve speed in terms of words read per minute, because that's a tactical focus.

Seconded.

I might rephrase "speed, comprehension, and recall" to "speed, comprehension, familiarity", which is a trilemma when it comes to reading.

To pad out credit hours on term in college, I actually took a course in speed reading, taught by a university librarian. The method that they taught us was developed by the Xerox corporation long ago, as a way to have employees get through material faster. The key here was that, while the material was technical in nature, the employees were very familiar with the subject matter, and so it was possible to absolutely blaze through material (i.e. 1000+ wpm) if you got good at the method. For our class, we typically would read fairly easy material (literally, Reader's Digest Articles) with our line-speed dictated by metronome, and afterwards we would take little tests to gauge comprehension of what we read. (The class was graded based on participation, not comprehension scores). It was actually really interesting, because each student could basically generate the curve of speed (independent variable) vs. comprehension (dependent variable). Of course, the other variable was familiarity* but these were fairly random articles. So the takeaway was something like, "If I am satisfied with say, 80% comprehension of this text, I can read it at 600 wpm and be in that neighborhood."

I am a slow reader by choice. I don't worry about how many books I get through, but that is because I am either: 1) reading for pleasure, and subvocalization (which is what slows people down) unlocks the beauty of language for me; or 2) reading something where I want 100% comprehension, probably because my familiarity is low. If I have to re-read an argument two (or even three) times before I move on, I'll do it...speed be damned. I try not to push past a fuzzy understanding simply to keep moving forward. If I'm truly interested, I'll take the time. If I'm not all that interested, I'll just put the book down.

*Difficulty of "reading level" behaves similarly, and is probably very relevant if reading e.g. textbooks or non-fiction that is trying to be nuanced/accurate rather than 'accessible'. Most stuff found in the bookstore is pretty much the same reading level, though.

jaymi wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:25 pm

I’ve been wanting to improve my reading for speed, comprehension, and recall. Unfortunately, the skill seems to have atrophied since university. I find myself spacing out a lot when I read, and though I typically enjoy the process, I’m doubtful as to how much I’m actually remembering. I went through just under 20 books last year and want continue with non-fiction plus tackle investing and econ textbooks. Considering the greater challenge of textbooks, I’m procrastinating with the easier non-fiction material. I’m wondering about lateralization or finding flow type mindset to get there.

Anyways, I’m looking for feedback on how to improve.

From your description, it sounds like the issue here is your endurance of focus. That is, not spacing out should increase speed, comprehension, and recall all by itself, right? Does that sound plausible to you?

If so, I can think of two strategies (which may be combined): 1) try to train your endurance of focus. This would involve targeted, incremental challenges that increase as you progress. 2) reduce those things in your life that negatively affect focusing abilities. LOTS of tech/internet-related activities are well known to do this. Carve out a distraction-free time. But maybe it's something simple as getting enough sleep?

jaymi wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:25 pm

Considering the greater challenge of textbooks, I’m procrastinating with the easier non-fiction material.

Procrastination is a sign that you're not enjoying the reading. When you have to read for external reasons that's an obstacle to get over. For voluntary reading, why force yourself to read? Why not find a book you look forward to reading? If there are no such books, why not replace reading with an activity you do enjoy?

I go through a few books a week, sometimes more. I use audio, anywhere from 1.5-2.5x speed. Working out, doing chores, brushing teeth, etc.

Most books are a waste of time. The bar I'm using is - will it impact my actions, beliefs, or connections? The answer is typically no. So I'm just being entertained.

When the answer is yes, I write down the useful bits and try them for awhile. Then I read the book again. Repeat until it's not useful.

With time, you find most books at a given reading level repeat each other. And beyond a certain level of complexity, there's a cap to the volume if information your brain can keep fresh.

So similar to physical activity, we're choosing the level and type of mental activity our brain will marinate in. You can't know it all, at least not at once.

Once we accept that expertise means all the trade offs of specialization, and vise versa, it's easier to accept the the limits. The question is what do you want to use.

From a retirement perspective, I tend not to find much value in textbooks. They're rarely actionable, for the amount of time I'm willing to dedicate on an activity.

delay wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 07, 2025 5:21 am

Procrastination is a sign that you're not enjoying the reading. When you have to read for external reasons that's an obstacle to get over. For voluntary reading, why force yourself to read? Why not find a book you look forward to reading?

This 100%. Decades ago I learned to be ruthless with books. Basically it comes down to 3 choices when I start reading a book:

• I like it and I continue reading it

• I like it but my brain isn't ready for this type of read, so I stop reading it and add it back to my future reading list

• I don't like it and I stop reading it and move on to another

There's just way too many book choices out there to waste any time on books you don't like.

I also had set up a rule with my nieces and nephews when they were young - any book they wanted (that they couldn't get at the library) I would buy them. I didn't care what they read as long as they read. For a lot of years it was comic books, or magazines about Taylor Swift lol, or even mad libs ... I didn't care as long as they read something. I think it worked out pretty good, they are all now young adults and each of them read regularly.

I think maybe the key is in how we reference something we do know versus how we reference something we don't know. I mean, it's not like you read a book and then store everything you learned from that book in a labeled drawer in your brain. Anything you learn from a book is processsed and recalled in relationship to everything you already know or have experienced. I will often obsessively read anything I can get my hands on related to a given topic even if I am only able to gain a few new insights.

I think that maybe a good way to proceed would be to start out with some lists of truly great books and explore your way through them until you have accumulated a personally chosen library of around 5 reasonably heavy-weight books that will sort of be the gravitational centers of complex reading webs you spin out and around from them. Textbooks would mostly suck for this purpose, because they are too slick and self-contented. You need original works that contain genius, but also eccentricities, rough edges and worm-holes. These are the books you will continuously reference and periodically re-read. And the wisdom within them will form the first structure in which you will relate all the many other books you will read. This structure will expand or alter each time you encounter another book that is meaningful enough to earn its place in this small collection.

Maybe research a list of great writers of great books who have the same personality type as you do. For example, an eNTP might read Benjamin Franklin's journals. Or find a book by somebody who did some original work in a topic that interests you. For example, "The Wealth of Nations" is much more interesting than some Econ 101 textbook. Choose at least one very good book that is rarely read, currently out of favor, or obscure, but speaks to you and your interests. For example, an early book on the topic of surrealist games. (NOTE: I think I may be recreating Amy Dacyzyn's Universal Casserole Recipe in the form of Recipe for Core Personal Working Library here.) And at least one book that is general enough in scope that it could be related to all of the others. For example, "Energy and Civilization: A History" by Vaclav Smil. And at least one book that is more light or whimsical, for example it could even be a children's book like "Frog and Toad Are Friends." Now, make all the possible connections between Franklin's Journals, "The Wealth of Nations", "A Book of Surrealist Games", "Energy and Civilization", and "Frog and Toad Are Friends", and then that will be the just-complex-enough web in which you can catch everything new that you read.

These responses are super helpful - much appreciated. I’m taking away a handful of points:

• get very clear about the ‘why’ for a book - don’t read it if you don’t care (!) or shelf it for now,

• engage in active recall (at the end or throughout, say chapter by chapter?),

• slowing down for improved comprehension and enjoyment is OK,

• practice building up to longer periods of focus (I started meditating again as a sidenote), and

• review ‘digital minimalism’ to help with tech distraction.

I think that maybe a good way to proceed would be to start out with some lists of truly great books and explore your way through them until you have accumulated a personally chosen library of around 5 reasonably heavy-weight books that will sort of be the gravitational centers of complex reading webs you spin out and around from them.

@7Wannabe5 I really like this notion, though I do find heavy-weight books intimidating. I’ll mull it over more. BTW I’m INFJ if that changes your heavy-weight book suggestions. Also, you mentioned Smil – I thought his “How The World Really Works” was fantastic.

Ahren's How to Take Smart Notes and Scott Young's blog posts and book on Ultralearning provide solid principles wrt reading/studying/comprehension.

@AxelHeyst I moved onto Scott Young’s book. So far, I like the framework and ideas, but am surprised Young basically discards flow saying it’s incompatible with deliberate practice he describes.

Impact seems to directly cause retention for me. Call this a foundational principle of easy recall.

For my brain, the structure of ideas (philosophy) has a larger impact than fact-learning / trivia (the names of actors, titles of songs, the periodic table).

I can't say that I go into books knowing if they'll impact me, although the general history of ideas itself has a high hit rate because of its worldview-building bias, and I know I suck with STEM textbooks.

Not a judgement, as I want my doctor to be facts-adapted (think memorizing prescription drug interactions), whereas in philosophy class, I care more about how ideas interact than who made what argument in which text.

All to say, I think figuring out how you're best able to retain information is an important part in developing a cohesive strategy to increase retention. Emphasis on what to read, not how to read it.

If something isn't going to matter to you, I can see reading it as an exercise (Anki notecards are great for me), but wouldn't be surprised that future recall is challenging.

Perhaps this is why memory experts utilize multiple sensory associations when quickly memorizing facts, as physiological impact (color, sound, taste, shape, location) is still impact.