What is a good learner car? (as in learning to fix and maintain yourself)

[jacob]

As in learning to fix ...

Based on recent experiences, I'm a-fixing to change my/our relationship to our car from "a reliable sad-to-break investment that depends on outsourced expertise" to "a cheap-enough to not mind breaking it while trying to fix it".

IOW, getting closer to a "Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" attitude when it comes to powered transportation, except for with a car. Maybe motorcycles will come later... much later.

We're currently in a situation where living without a reliable car is possible. We have EVERYTHING available within a 5 minute walk even if it's more expensive than $WMT. Big stores are walkable within a one hour return trip, so we can also do that.

I'm encouraged how this time DW didn't seem overly concerned that our car could be out for a foreseeable time. (Perhaps this leads me to a wrong conclusion here ... ). So, now I'm thinking ...

Insofar I can get DW onto the "Zen and the art"-page and me onto the "cars are not an evil to be suffered"-page when it comes to driving and owning... what would be a good vehicle to "bond" [strategically] with?

I presume the answer would be all to easy when it comes to motorcycles. But are there answers for cars? Insofar anyone has MC + sidecar answers, I'll take those too.

I'm asking about the point where a car is not something you need&outsource&dispose but something you want&insource&takecareof. I suppose the @Sclass would answer with the S-class. Are there others? Classic cars? The Geo Metro? A DeLorean?

(This guy seems to have figured it out. I recommend the book btw.)

[Ego]

You've got the perfect car for this already. It doesn't get much better than the Honda Fit.

If you want something to learn on, buy something cheap that isn't running, park it in your driveway and see if you can figure out the problems. Carbureted is easier than fuel injected. Fewer electronic brains is better than more. Old VWs were once the goto for this kind of fun, but now they are expensive.

ETA: On second though, it has to be this one....
https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/ ... 96292.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GRSpDLDEgY

[Jethrofisher]

Honda is good. The fewer the electronics, the better.
A large majority of breakdowns would probably be related to 1)battery and electrical issues involving alternator, belts, sparkplugs, distributor cap, and/or ignition wires. 2)fuel pump/filter failure 3) flat tires. You could have a breakdown ANYWHERE and probably get home without an expensive tow truck. Even mechanics in backwater West Virginia will probably have cheap common Honda parts or something that matches well enough to get you and your car home.

Some gearheads like a manual transmission and a diesel engine for simplicity in troubleshooting and reliability although you may pay more up front for this. We could learn alot from Cuba when it comes to keeping cars running.

[Ego]

It may be hard to get parts for that old Honda.

Maybe this one
https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/ctd/ ... 20988.html

[loutfard]

Closely related question. What would be a suitable car in and around Belgium?
- no diesel. Only post September 2015 diesel cars are allowed into three major cities starting January 2025.
- no petrol bought before January 2006. Pre-2021 petrol cars are to be banned from major cities starting January 2030.
- no petrol cars allowed anymore from 2035.

So the question quickly becomes about electric cars. Which electric car would be the most "cheap-enough to not mind breaking it while trying to fix it"? Or which one would that be five years from now?

[Gilberto de Piento]

I'm not sure I completely understand the situation or question but I'll give my 2 cents anyway. Best car to work on is a car that is not rusty (so it is easier to disassemble and reassemble) and common (so there is lots of info and parts available) and has no fatal flaws that can't be dealt with (don't want a car model where every 50,000 miles the transmission goes out and there is no reasonable cure other than a junkyard trans that might have the same problem).

Regarding what car to actually buy I don't know. Consider the brand, model, generation, and the options it has. Some models are good except for one particular generation or one particular engine within a generation.

That said, working on cars sucks. Find another good mechanic and spend money to avoid the miserable hassles of car repair.

If you must work on cars I would be selective about what to work on. Possible good projects because they are routine, easy, and unlikely to devolve into misery: change oil, rotate tires, change wiper blades, change air filters. Possible good projects because they will save a lot of money and get you back on the road: anything like the battery issue you described in the other thread. Bad projects to avoid: most exhaust work and suspension work. Rusty, frustrating messes. Brake work is somewhere in between. Sometimes it takes an hour to swap rotors and pads, sometimes it becomes a mess if a bolt is stuck or similar.

Just my two cents. Good luck.

[jacob]

I'm not sure I completely understand the situation or question ...

A car that uses common parts and is cheap and simple/easy to work on. This probably means something older with lots of space in the motor compartment, that is, no need to remove a bunch of parts to access X part. Basically something that can be fixed in the developing country that is my garage.

The bicycle equivalent would be a 10-12 speed fixed steel or alu frame with horizontal dropouts, friction shifters, and caliper or v-pull brakes and 700 wheels. This has all the components without needing specialized tools or special order parts. Not any pre-1990 bike fits this... for example, Schwinn bikes are ubiquitous, but they usually have 27" wheels which can be trickier to find than 700 wheels.

The situation is to pick a car that's more fun/cool for road trips than reliable for commuting or shopping since we don't need a car for that.

[Ego]

The situation is to pick a car that's more fun/cool for road trips than reliable for commuting or shopping since we don't need a car for that.

May be fun to wander around and get an idea of what you are getting yourself into with an older "simple" vehicle.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds ... id=2678290

[loutfard]

A car that uses common parts and is cheap and simple/easy to work on. This probably means something older with lots of space in the motor compartment, that is, no need to remove a bunch of parts to access X part. Basically something that can be fixed in the developing country that is my garage.

I wonder how to translate this to electric cars. Are there any serviceable older cars in that segment?

I'm keeping half an eye on standardisation efforts for electric batteries. We're absolutely not there yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if that would happen in the longer term. The state of electric car battery swapping in China is a reason for careful optimism in that regard.

[jacob]

I wonder how to translate this to electric cars.

Me too. An electric car is much simpler except that manufacturers like to load them up with various gadgets and widgets turning them into computers on wheels. All that is totally unnecessary.

So far, it looks like China is winning the electric car race including the battery race. That's good news insofar import/export becomes a possibility, since I consider the availability of "simple/affordable" designs more likely as opposed to the luxury focus that's driving the US/EU focus. Check out the Tesla-killer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiaomi_SU7 for $30,000.

[7Wannabe5]

My Mazda Protege was by far the best car I ever owned. I liked it even better than the Honda Fit. The sporty and affordable Mazda Miata series is also rated as excellent beginner car. It also is rated high for holding its value. The convertible option makes it fun and ideal for occasional road trip usage.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... /673699201

I do NOT recommend a Smart car. The only upside is that mechanics seem to find it an intriguing challenge.

[Gilberto de Piento]

The situation is to pick a car that's more fun/cool for road trips than reliable for commuting or shopping since we don't need a car for that.

What does a road trip mean to you? One hour drive or drive from Chicago to southern California?

One trade off with simpler, more repairable cars is that Evan when new needed more repairs. For example, there was a time when cars were lucky to make it to 100k miles without an engine rebuild. I'd rather have a modern car less likely to break down far from home than one that is likely to break but I can work on. That's a personal preference though.

Another factor is how it drives. If a road trip for you means a lot of time on the interstate doing 70-80mph the VW beetles that others are recommending are not going to be fun. You can certainly take one on the interstate but they want to do 60mph. The motor will be screaming if it can go faster. They are also wiggly feeling at high speeds in traffic. And if you crash you are paste in a crushed can.

Another factor is modern safety equipment. The old repairable cars lack modern stuff including things that are not obvious like crumple zones.

Some possibilities:
Full size truck from the 80s or 90s with a v8. Or a car with that drivetrain from the same era. Chevy best because you can use a modern engine from the junkyard in cars going back to the 50sand massive aftermarket and enthusiast support, then Ford or dodge.
Jeep wrangler, cj7, or similar (not a jeep expert)

Both have an enthusiast following and have parts available. Every mechanic is going to know how to work on these. Don't buy anything with significant rust or that ever has been significantly rusted.

[jacob]

What does a road trip mean to you? One hour drive or drive from Chicago to southern California?

Usually it means a biannual drive of 13 hours on the freeway or 14 hours of interstate in one stretch. Possibly split in two by staying overnight at a motel. Most commonly, it would be 1--3 hour drives locally but I wouldn't consider those road trips. We have had one incident (almost 20 years ago ) when DW's old POS car crapped out in the BFE on a Friday night. The question is whether mechanical skill and ongoing maintenance would have prevented that (in this case the timing belt blew). Instead, lacking any ability to diagnose the problem, we ended up buying a new car in the nearest town, while taking $100 in trade-in for the old car. (It was old, but probably worth more than $100.)

[jennypenny]

Why not just rent a car when you need one if it isn't that often?

Econoline vans are pretty easy to fix and predate a lot of computerized stuff. They were a popular commercial van so parts are easy to come by in junkyards. They also make a decent camper van. DS drives (and repairs) our E150 that's 22 years old.

[chenda]

An air-cooled Beetle.

Edit: To expand on this, VW spare parts are ubiquitous worldwide, the Beetle is probably the most iconic car ever made (despite literally been designed by Hitler) and likely has a large network of enthusiasts and owners forums. You can probably find you tube videos which explain about fixing everything. You can pick one up one for a few grand.

[ffj]

Eagerly awaiting what Sclass has to say but I'll throw in my two cents...

First of all, working on your own car these days means changing motor oil, transmission fluid, differential, etc. Changing various burnt out bulbs, air filter, wipers, batteries, etc. Possibly brake pads and rotors. Rotating tires, changing and fixing flats, etc. New spark plugs, fuel filter and properly washing and waxing the vehicle.

Anything more than that (let me know if I've forgotten anything) and 99% of people are utilizing a mechanic due to needing specialized tools and knowledge, possibly a lift, or another set of hands (these fucking compact engine compartments are a nightmare to work in, you literally cannot fit your hands in there necessitating massive disassembly).

So, I would pick something that is reliable and quite common, not too old, and doesn't have issues with major components such as the drivetrain, transmission, or engine. Honda and Toyota have always been my go-to vehicles. You used to be able to pick up an older Camry for a few thousand but the used car market has changed dramatically so good luck finding a good deal.

You have a Honda Fit currently? I would start there. Learn how to tune it up and perform its recommended maintenance. Do you know how to detail a car? It matters if you don't keep it in a garage. That alone will keep you busy for a while if you go down that rabbit hole deep enough. I reckon you could stay busy just learning all of the ins and outs of your current ride for the next year.

[zbigi]

Full size truck from the 80s or 90s with a v8.

An ERE peak-oiler in a v8 truck would be quite a sight. However, one could argue that, if not driven often, taking the v8 off the market would be actually doing the world a favor, as it would minimize the waste (vs a counterfactual scenario, where somebody else buys it and drives much more miles than @jacob).

[jacob]

Why not just rent a car when you need one if it isn't that often?

Been there, done that.

Long trips usually last 2-3 weeks. One-way out-of-state rentals were (are?) rather expensive ("return-fee") as is renting the same car for the duration to make it a two-way trip. Adding it all up, it didn't work for our usage pattern.

[Bonde]

We have two EVs. Hyundai ioniq 28 kwh and Nissan leaf 40 kwh. Both great cars and large online communities with repair guidelines etc.
If I had to pick one it would be the ioniq. Very efficient, old reliable operating system, and carbon frame. It also has CCS fast charging with is the leading system in Europe compared to chademo leaf.

[mathiverse]

I think Jacob is likely too tall for a Miata to be comfortable on road trips.