hmm.. which car?

[lillo9546]

How do you know which car would be the best one, not only because it will be cheaper, but one car in some places give you also status, so it's an investiment on social life quality.
So how do you know if a Toyota Yaris or an Audi Q2, it's right? Which are the real cost, both economic and social?

[chenda]

Go car free.

[suomalainen]

Hahaha. Investment in social life via buying a car. Will wonders never cease?

If you value brand association or value other people’s opinions of brand association, by all means, get the brand you think the people you’re trying to impress will be impressed by.

For my money, I’d find less shallow friends.

[chenda]

For my money, I’d find less shallow friends.

+1000

[C40]

Best car is Honda Fit. Cheap. Efficient. Reliable. Very good cargo capacity. Great for social life. (if you're in an area with small roads like Japan, or slow speeds, or high import tax, other options would be better)

When I had a rich friend, and hung out with him and his friends. Nobody gave one fuck about what car I drive. I mean, none of them thought about it in a bad way. Except that the bodyguard of my friend (a GIANT, super muscular, intimidating looking guy, also gay) was so excited about my small red Mazda 4-door coupe. When we went to town to buy something, and he saw my car, he was thrilled to ride along.. So much so that I let him drive the car back. He had been driving my rich friend's cars for him - a Hummer, Mercedes. But the car he was most excited to drive was that $18,000 economy car (because it was the car he really wanted to buy... but at his day job (EMT) his coworkers had big trucks and he bought a big truck to fit in but what he really wanted was my car.)..


Rich and smart people either don't care about what you drive, and/or they will admire if you drive a car that's financially smart (even if they themselves blow a lot of money on their cars... because they realize how much money they're wasting).

[okumurahata]

I don’t have a car, but sometimes I think about what car I would have if I needed to buy one. I would never buy a brand new car; you can find second-hand cars with less than 100k km that are nice. I also like designs that never get old, so buying a second-hand car that looks good today will guarantee that it will look great tomorrow. There are several options that I would consider (my criteria are biased because I don’t have kids):

1. Smart ForTwo: An efficient way to move around the city. Automatic. Cheap. Simple.
2. Fiat 500: Also very cheap, Italian design, compact, does a great job for city driving.
3. Mini Cooper: Same reasons as 1. and 2.
4. Mazda MX-5: A convertible that shows you have good taste in cars.
5. VW Golf: It just works well; after so many generations, it’s a discrete and well-made car.
6. Porsche Boxster: The last on the list. If you buy it second-hand, treat it well, and use it only when you really need it (petrol consumption is a crime in this car), you will have a classic car that will last forever. Also, they are beautiful, and you can find some of them with less than 100k for 20k EUR. The most expensive on the list, but one of the principles of ERE is to have high-quality products that last longer. If you maintain this car forever, and in the meantime your neighbour changes their car 4 times, you will have been better for the environment.

Well, this is not the typical Japanese list in ERE style for cars. You can have alternatives that are also great and without spending a fortune.

[fiby41]

Nano costing ~₹1202 dubbed the world's cheapest car but unforunately it is out of production.

[zbigi]

Unfortunately, you can't buy such cheap cars in most developed nations, because they don't meet safety standards. Which is kind of weird, given that it's completely legal to buy motorcycles, mopeds etc. I guess the assumption is that they (motocycles etc.) are too inconvenient for most of the population to consider, so they don't contribute to fatalities in a significant way.

[Seppia]

if you really need a car, there is no better option in Italy than a second hand, low mileage Panda Hybrid.
You get access to most "low emission zones", it's cheap and holds its value extremely well.
If you friends judge you because of your car, you need new friends

[Scott 2]

Status with who? Plumbers in the Midwestern US have a much different answer than bankers in Hong Kong.

If the social circle you value, considers a specific vehicle important, figure it out. Buy used, maintain the car well, drive judiciously. Maybe you can turn a profit if you flip a good deal every couple years.

I don't think it's fair to automatically dismiss someone because they ascribe status to an expensive vehicle. Everyone applies a standard. Look at the grief MMM got for his interest in electric cars. Try rolling into the next ERE meetup with an Escalade.

It depends on your role in the social circle too.

I remember a recent grad showed up to work driving a Porsche SUV. Coworkers were not happy. She was from China. Family money they said. There was a combination of feeling she hadn't earned it and probably some jealousy. Yet people 20 years her senior were commonly driving cars in that price range. Those were just cool toys.

[ducknald_don]

I knew someone who did that at a company I worked for in the nineties. Big flash BMW with a huge loan. Needless to say management soon found a way to get rid of him.

I do find this thread amusing as displaying status via car ownership seems to be the antithesis of the philosophy of ERE.

[zbigi]

I knew someone who did that at a company I worked for in the nineties. Big flash BMW with a huge loan. Needless to say management soon found a way to get rid of him.

Conversely, one of my former bosses (an owner of a small software consultancy) had a rule to never drive a car better than his client's drive. Given that a lot of his clients were public servants (we did a lot of projects for ministries and various public agencies), he drove an old Skoda.

[Ego]

I do find this thread amusing as displaying status via car ownership seems to be the antithesis of the philosophy of ERE.

Actually, ERE has automobile status. Many of us own the aspirational (and sadly, discontinued) Honda Fit. 7W owns a Smart Car. So, we are not immune to buying cars that reflect what is important to us. The day Toyota releases the Renaissance van we will all be in line at the dealer.

[Scott 2]

Big flash BMW with a huge loan. Needless to say management soon found a way to get rid of him.

Someone with money problems is a liability, especially if the organization has high value inventory or sensitive data. We had client pressure to run both drug tests and credit reports on employees, in addition to regular background checks. Catch a problem early, before they get entrenched and cause substantial harm.


IMO - from an ERE perspective - how one consumes is more important than what. It's not "copy this canned lifestyle," but a set of principles used to build your lifestyle. There are simple answers (ie no car), but they are not the only answer. One could alternatively use a "high status" car to make money (work truck, Uber comfort driver, influencer photo shoots???, etc.).

Develop mastery over a specific model of car, like @sclass has done, and you've built an exceptional form of status, one that might be held in near universal regard.


Start combining those strategies, and I'd venture if it's really important to you, driving any car is feasible.

[chenda]

Remember cars aren't just about money, they bring with them a huge collective cost on to society.

[Scott 2]

There's definitely a selfish aspect to it. No denying that. Unfortunately, with those costs already baked into society, going car free means real personal sacrifice.

[Jean]

Panda are the best car one can dream of. I'm looking at a panda with no back seat right now, so that a red deer could fit in it somehow.
Girl and friends you'll attract with cars are usually not so interesting, unless they really like cars, but then, you'll impress them more with your car repair skills (for which a very well maintained old car is a good way of demonstrating) than with your car's price tag.

[zbigi]

My relative worked in a Panda factory in Poland and his observation was that, while the actual quality of the assemly work done in that factory was decent, the parts of the car were just cheaply made, unreliable and not durable. He and his colleagues drove a lot of Pandas and he said that the suspension would regularly start giving up around 40kkm and around 80-90kkm you'd probably already be replacing it a second time. Granted, these were company cars, so probably abused, but still. My experience with owning an Alfa Romeo (a Fiat in a nicer packaging) was totally abysmal too. I couldn't belive a car can break that often.
BTW my relative, as soon as he stopped wanted to advance his career further within Fiat, stopped buying Fiats altogether, even though he had a nice employee discount. He just didn't belive the hassle is worth the savings.

[chenda]

I'm looking at a panda with no back seat right now, so that a red deer could fit in it somehow.

This is so Jean, I love it

[Sclass]

Someone with money problems is a liability, especially if the organization has high value inventory or sensitive data. We had client pressure to run both drug tests and credit reports on employees, in addition to regular background checks. Catch a problem early, before they get entrenched and cause substantial harm.
..
Develop mastery over a specific model of car, like @sclass has done, and you've built an exceptional form of status, one that might be held in near universal regard.

Yes. I had two coworkers addicted to cocaine. We found out when things started disappearing. Once they got caught a lot of mysterious things around work got suddenly explained. You get 100 people working together and eventually you find 4% have serious issues with substances, impulsive behavior and mental health. I recall one guy always had bad stuff happening in his life. He seemed to attract misfortune. One day he complained his car got repoed and that’s why he was late for work. That should have been a red flag but it took a major inventory loss to put the spotlight on him.

My cars haven’t won any status. Some geeky Mercedes lovers like my cars at shows but they don’t respect me any more than a Pokémon player respects the owner of a Mewtwo holo card.

My 40 yo Benzes get the mirth of my family and friends. Mom used to say it isn’t really a Mercedes because it’s so old. Granted dementia was setting in. But I understood her feeling. My sister enjoyed teasing me about my car. Still does. She’s a serial bmw owner. I’ve talked about her before. She’s very status conscious and indebted to her ears. She found leasing allows her the newest model at the lowest monthly cost.

I suspect all the jokes and insults make my people feel better about the financial chasm that has grown between us. We don’t have much in common aside from dna. It’s alien to me that they find cars so important. It’s just a carriage.



I used to think my car demonstrated I was a master mechanic but nobody seems to care. I only impress myself. Everyone else sees junk.

I think it’s like living on a JAFI. Here we know that takes skills. But to outsiders you just look poor.

Mom used to say I looked like I was lower class. My cousin warned me that people see me and think I’m poor. So what right? That’s kind of validation around here.

I love our ten yo Honda Accord. Never breaks. Wife’s car. We outgrew the need for status long ago. I don’t feel insecure about being poor anymore. That kind of thing is for aspirationals. Leaving work did miracles for shedding aspirationals and accompanying insecurities.

Extract yourself from the arena. Don’t let anyone in your FIT who doesn’t want to be there with you.