Hi, first time poster here and just trying to figure some financial stuff out. To keep it short, my wife and I are nowhere near financial independence, partly because I stayed home for last five years to help care for our young children and now I am having a hard time finding work (Covid didn't help). I did have one interview recently but won't hear till next week and I am dreading it a little. We scrimp and save and I fix our old cars but it feels like its going to be a long road.
What I wanted to ask is what would you have done differently based on your knowledge now? I am genuinely curious and I need to learn quickly to get my financial life in order. Anything you can tell us that would be helpful please share and I am sure others in this forum would like to know too.
What would you have done differently?
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GreenMonsta
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:53 pm
Re: What would you have done differently?
Interesting, I recently thought about how I wish I would have found and engaged in this forum from the very start of my financial/work journey.
As it stands now I find myself looking through journals for individuals 1-2 Wheaton Levels above myself and I find inspiration there. Being able to read 5 or so years of someone’s journal with them going from point A (maybe your position) to point B (your goal) is beneficial. It’s the closest I have experienced to having a financial mentor.
From an investment perspective, I waisted a lot of time worried about things such as:
buying the right stock asset class (value vs growth, large vs small etc.);
Investing in active vs passive funds;
Having bad timing and buying the “top”;
How much in bonds do I need?;
When I stopped worrying about the perfect investing style and started focusing more on the thing I could control (my savings rate) I started making tremendous progress.
That is to say I think, going from 0-1k, 10k, 100k has more to do with savings rate than investing style.
Try to keep things simple and have an open mind on what you/your family’s situation can be in 5-10 years. The small changes you make now will compound greatly over that time period.
As it stands now I find myself looking through journals for individuals 1-2 Wheaton Levels above myself and I find inspiration there. Being able to read 5 or so years of someone’s journal with them going from point A (maybe your position) to point B (your goal) is beneficial. It’s the closest I have experienced to having a financial mentor.
From an investment perspective, I waisted a lot of time worried about things such as:
buying the right stock asset class (value vs growth, large vs small etc.);
Investing in active vs passive funds;
Having bad timing and buying the “top”;
How much in bonds do I need?;
When I stopped worrying about the perfect investing style and started focusing more on the thing I could control (my savings rate) I started making tremendous progress.
That is to say I think, going from 0-1k, 10k, 100k has more to do with savings rate than investing style.
Try to keep things simple and have an open mind on what you/your family’s situation can be in 5-10 years. The small changes you make now will compound greatly over that time period.
Re: What would you have done differently?
“When People Show You Who They Are, Believe Them The First Time” - Maya Angelou.
I should have estranged my family long ago.
I had plenty of bad experiences by age 25 to know better. But I just hung on. I should have dumped all of them. Wasted life. It’s only now I can see it all the wreckage in the rear view mirror. I basically repeated the same old experiment and got the same negative results over and over again.
I lost so much time living in their useless drama.
The investment stuff I never worry about. I guess I don’t think much of 20/20 hindsight when it comes to investing. I made mistakes and I analyze them. It was part of the path. I mean we’d all be gazillionaires if we made all the right moves. However I don’t indulge in that thought pattern. My best results have been achieved by doing something today for tomorrow. 20/20 hindsight never made me much money.
I should have estranged my family long ago.
I had plenty of bad experiences by age 25 to know better. But I just hung on. I should have dumped all of them. Wasted life. It’s only now I can see it all the wreckage in the rear view mirror. I basically repeated the same old experiment and got the same negative results over and over again.
I lost so much time living in their useless drama.
The investment stuff I never worry about. I guess I don’t think much of 20/20 hindsight when it comes to investing. I made mistakes and I analyze them. It was part of the path. I mean we’d all be gazillionaires if we made all the right moves. However I don’t indulge in that thought pattern. My best results have been achieved by doing something today for tomorrow. 20/20 hindsight never made me much money.
Re: What would you have done differently?
I don't know you, Scott, but if you are not already doing it, consider applying for jobs that are slightly below the level that you had previously, and then work your way up from there. Having an income will help and having a job will help you see how to advance. Maybe this is even your chance to start in a new field of work?
Re: What would you have done differently?
i would have studied medicine instead of engineering.
Re: What would you have done differently?
Probably nothing, though that's as much due to good luck as good judgement.
That's probably not very helpful but we only have very limited control over anything.
That's probably not very helpful but we only have very limited control over anything.
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scottindenver
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:06 am
Re: What would you have done differently?
Yes that is good point and I am looking at some alternative careers. It's harder now with kids and I didn't appreciate that it now takes longer to learn things. One thing I am trying to do is improve how I make decisions and what I spend my time on and not worry about the rest.
One thing that has bothered me is we don't really own anything that really has value beyond of course our house (but we still have a mortgage). I am not sure what to do but that question keeps coming up. I don't enjoy real estate and I am not interested in startups. But I may be able to create a small business that can provide some kind of service perhaps.
One thing that has bothered me is we don't really own anything that really has value beyond of course our house (but we still have a mortgage). I am not sure what to do but that question keeps coming up. I don't enjoy real estate and I am not interested in startups. But I may be able to create a small business that can provide some kind of service perhaps.
DutchGirl wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2023 1:26 amI don't know you, Scott, but if you are not already doing it, consider applying for jobs that are slightly below the level that you had previously, and then work your way up from there. Having an income will help and having a job will help you see how to advance. Maybe this is even your chance to start in a new field of work?
Re: What would you have done differently?
I was focused on getting out of debt, and living debt free. However, when interest rates were low, it probably would have been a good strategy to borrow money to buy appreciating assets, such as a rental home.
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mathiverse
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:40 pm
Re: What would you have done differently?
Check out this post for a few more ideas: viewtopic.php?t=12867. It is along similar lines to your question.
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IlliniDave
- Posts: 3877
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm
Re: What would you have done differently?
This is something I've thought about quite a lot, especially during and immediately after the point where I set my sights on early retirement (I was too old at that point to qualify as an ere-er.
Only a fraction of the thoughts were directly or even tangentially related to finance. I don't really know what would be helpful to you or not.
There are a lot whimsical ones, like what if I'd taken all the money I'd earned as a kid in the 70s mowing lawns and shoveling snow, and my first couple jobs in high school in the late 70s and early 80s and bought Berkshire Hathaway stock, things like that.
But in terms of habits with some general applicability starting when I became an adult in the workforce:
I would have started saving more aggressively sooner. I sort of defaulted into long-term savings when I got my first job and was encouraged to participate in the company 401k, which was a major boon over time, but I left a lot on the table in terms of not taking maximum advantage. I also would start saving outside of retirement-specific vehicles on top of those while much younger--something I didn't do until I was in my mid-late 40s.
I would have avoided debt more assiduously. I wasn't bad about it myself, but it was an inefficiency in my journey. Related to that is I would have made a more thoughtful choice when it came to getting married. My ex- was a high horsepower chaos engine financially, and while married what was effectively joint debt was a real problem at times and an appreciable long-term set back. And then the divorce was a huge derailment, it didn't put me all the way back to square one financially, but close. Ironically, that event also empowered me to change course and ultimately achieve financial success on the terms I set out for myself.
I would have taken on a low-cost passive investing strategy from the beginning. I accidentally (due to having other demands on my time) went through several stretches where I left stuff alone for years at a time, and tended to do better then than the times I outsmarted myself trying to be clever in attempts to time or beat the market.
Overall, my back of the envelope assessment is that if I'd started the financial approach that I took from my mid-40s onward when I was 23 or so, I could have maybe left the workforce a decade sooner than I did. A caveat is I never have been able to embrace the "extreme" aspect of ere, and despite drawing influences from it, I'm much more of a traditional FIRE case. Nothing I did was brilliant, creative, or insightful. Mostly it had to do with consistency and patience.
A book I would recommend people check out while they are young is Your Money or Your Life. I wish I would have read it when I was 25 (though it may not have even been written then). It's not a turnkey blueprint for everyone--and the investing approach given in the edition I read has not help up over time. What I think is most valuable about it is the emphasis on really thinking about how one spends her/his money and sort of mapping it to personal goals/values via a very simple process that highlights how well the cost of earning money is effectively invested towards meeting life/lifestyle goals.
Only a fraction of the thoughts were directly or even tangentially related to finance. I don't really know what would be helpful to you or not.
There are a lot whimsical ones, like what if I'd taken all the money I'd earned as a kid in the 70s mowing lawns and shoveling snow, and my first couple jobs in high school in the late 70s and early 80s and bought Berkshire Hathaway stock, things like that.
But in terms of habits with some general applicability starting when I became an adult in the workforce:
I would have started saving more aggressively sooner. I sort of defaulted into long-term savings when I got my first job and was encouraged to participate in the company 401k, which was a major boon over time, but I left a lot on the table in terms of not taking maximum advantage. I also would start saving outside of retirement-specific vehicles on top of those while much younger--something I didn't do until I was in my mid-late 40s.
I would have avoided debt more assiduously. I wasn't bad about it myself, but it was an inefficiency in my journey. Related to that is I would have made a more thoughtful choice when it came to getting married. My ex- was a high horsepower chaos engine financially, and while married what was effectively joint debt was a real problem at times and an appreciable long-term set back. And then the divorce was a huge derailment, it didn't put me all the way back to square one financially, but close. Ironically, that event also empowered me to change course and ultimately achieve financial success on the terms I set out for myself.
I would have taken on a low-cost passive investing strategy from the beginning. I accidentally (due to having other demands on my time) went through several stretches where I left stuff alone for years at a time, and tended to do better then than the times I outsmarted myself trying to be clever in attempts to time or beat the market.
Overall, my back of the envelope assessment is that if I'd started the financial approach that I took from my mid-40s onward when I was 23 or so, I could have maybe left the workforce a decade sooner than I did. A caveat is I never have been able to embrace the "extreme" aspect of ere, and despite drawing influences from it, I'm much more of a traditional FIRE case. Nothing I did was brilliant, creative, or insightful. Mostly it had to do with consistency and patience.
A book I would recommend people check out while they are young is Your Money or Your Life. I wish I would have read it when I was 25 (though it may not have even been written then). It's not a turnkey blueprint for everyone--and the investing approach given in the edition I read has not help up over time. What I think is most valuable about it is the emphasis on really thinking about how one spends her/his money and sort of mapping it to personal goals/values via a very simple process that highlights how well the cost of earning money is effectively invested towards meeting life/lifestyle goals.
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unemployable
- Posts: 1007
- Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:36 am
- Location: Homeless
Re: What would you have done differently?
Not sold AAPL in 2004. Two million dollar mistake now.
Barring that, worked two more years. I'll go to my death wishing I had spent more time in the office... sort of.
Barring that, worked two more years. I'll go to my death wishing I had spent more time in the office... sort of.
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unemployable
- Posts: 1007
- Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:36 am
- Location: Homeless
Re: What would you have done differently?
Something about how they raised you got you into Stanford though. Unless you don't mean your parents.Sclass wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 11:36 pmI should have estranged my family long ago.
I had plenty of bad experiences by age 25 to know better. But I just hung on. I should have dumped all of them. Wasted life. It’s only now I can see it all the wreckage in the rear view mirror. I basically repeated the same old experiment and got the same negative results over and over again.
I lost so much time living in their useless drama.
I was raised around (other) upper-middle-class and a sprinkling of actual rich kids. This gave me a warped sense of the world and how it works. Not everyone spends their spring break at their second house in Vail. But don't blame my folks for giving me that upbringing, not at all. If I whiffed on the opportunities I had in front of me (and I did), that was my fault.
Re: What would you have done differently?
I'd have aggressively crowbar'd expenses even faster. Probably a strict #nobuyyear was the right Rx for me.
Also I would not have gone down to 8hrs/week schedule (20% pay but not really 20% of the responsibility/attentionsuck, so not worth it) and would have aimed to get another 1-2yrs of FTE income in the stash before pulling the trigger myself.
With those two tweaks I'd be at ~30x as of a year ago...
Also I would not have gone down to 8hrs/week schedule (20% pay but not really 20% of the responsibility/attentionsuck, so not worth it) and would have aimed to get another 1-2yrs of FTE income in the stash before pulling the trigger myself.
With those two tweaks I'd be at ~30x as of a year ago...
Re: What would you have done differently?
I thought about this over the past couple of days, and the thing is, I don't think I could've done anything differently. Not bc I was already doing the super optimal thing but because the guy I was, with his knowledge (or lack thereof), hang=ups, psychological bullshit, etc, couldn't have done any better. Doing better would have literally required for someone else to be living my life.
Re: What would you have done differently?
The premise assumes that a somewhat someone else (you now) would be living your life: "What would you have done differently based on your knowledge now?"
Otherwise it is a pointless question in the sense that you cannot learn anything from people's answers.
Re: What would you have done differently?
I would have invested a lot more time early on to learn how to cook from scratch from the few people in my life who were good at it. I would have made that my first priority. I've always been relatively frugal except for my habit of eating out (especially lunch and coffee on work days). I would have brought lunch every day and tried to not develop a taste for lattes.
I would have realized earlier that living at the other end of the world from my family was not going to be sustainable no matter how complicated our relationship is, and I would have made spending habits and desired lifestyles a strong filter for my relationships.
I don't regret anything, I wouldn't be the person I am now if things had gone differently, but I definitely would have saved myself a lot of heartache and cognitive dissonance. And money, obviously.
I would have realized earlier that living at the other end of the world from my family was not going to be sustainable no matter how complicated our relationship is, and I would have made spending habits and desired lifestyles a strong filter for my relationships.
I don't regret anything, I wouldn't be the person I am now if things had gone differently, but I definitely would have saved myself a lot of heartache and cognitive dissonance. And money, obviously.
Re: What would you have done differently?
Highly profound statement. There was a basketball player named Lenny Moore. At one point, he was considered a better prospect than Lebron James. Due to what most would classify as poor choices sprinkled with poor advice, no one knows who he is now. Could Lenny Moore have done things differently? Was his "failure" due to character issues? Or did Lenny Moore just live his life. Either way you fall on that issue involves heavy duty lifting. That is why some believe success and failure are the same thing as they share fundamental pillars of judgment.
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scottindenver
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:06 am
Re: What would you have done differently?
Thanks everyone for your contributions! I am trying to learn as much as I can but for now I really realize I need to cut expenses down as much as possible/reasonable. I am pretty good at craigslist free and check there often if I "need" something so I don't spend any money but there are other areas where I could improve.
What is a little difficult lately is I just feel like a damn moron and now I have kids so my financial choices affect them as well. I am going to just try to maintain equanimity and make small improvements day to day but it is difficult when I realize better financial choices could have really helped my family. Also my wife and I have no one to fall back on if I really can't find a job. We didn't come from money and unfortunately both my parents and her parents were objectively stupid with money.
So in summary I know improvements we gotta make but its hard to get over the emotional stuff and move forward. If anyone has experienced similar and found ways to reframe let me know.
What is a little difficult lately is I just feel like a damn moron and now I have kids so my financial choices affect them as well. I am going to just try to maintain equanimity and make small improvements day to day but it is difficult when I realize better financial choices could have really helped my family. Also my wife and I have no one to fall back on if I really can't find a job. We didn't come from money and unfortunately both my parents and her parents were objectively stupid with money.
So in summary I know improvements we gotta make but its hard to get over the emotional stuff and move forward. If anyone has experienced similar and found ways to reframe let me know.
Re: What would you have done differently?
As ertyu says above, if I had done things differently, I would not be the person I am today and would not have the knowledge I have now.scottindenver wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 8:13 pmWhat I wanted to ask is what would you have done differently based on your knowledge now?
We all make mistakes and have terrible things happen to us. We all have successes and have wonderful things happen to us. One person's mistake is another's success. One's disaster is another's triumph.
Also see this from the thread, What Should We Worry About
viewtopic.php?p=63883#p63883
Re: What would you have done differently?
Beyond not wasting time beating yourself up now over past mistakes this is just a semantic stop sign. It is a counterfactual question and unless you have never comitted any mistakes or made any suboptimal decisions it can be answered straightforwardly.