Bulk food buyers and storers

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jacob
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Bulk food buyers and storers

Post by jacob »

Ego wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2023 3:00 pm
We should probably have a dedicated Bulk Foods thread ...
Great idea!

Here's a thread dedicated to those who want to (re)fill their gamma-sealed and possibly Mylar bagged 5 gallon buckets in the most optimized way possible.

In terms of this thread, bulk means filling such a bucket, so we're talking 20 pound bags or bigger. Alternatively, acquiring twenty one-pound bags at a time. In short, BULK!

Of interest to this thread would be:
  • Time-limited deals like free shipping (when to buy)
  • Best sources (where to buy)
  • Methods and strategies for developing new sources (how to buy)
  • Storage methods and priorities (what to buy)

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Ego
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Re: Bulk food buyers

Post by Ego »

AxelHeyst wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2023 3:22 pm
azurestandard has organic flax seeds for 1.64/lb, is that competitive with the feed grade stuff?

At bulk amounts azure has them for closer to a dollar a pound, but they seem to be out of stock on that. The 1.64/lb is for 33oz bags.
Wow! Yes! It beats the pet food supply shop by a mile. I love the fact that they offer a scheduled free shipping to the home of another customer in my neighborhood where I can pick it up. Thank you!

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Re: Bulk food buyers

Post by AxelHeyst »

@ego Great!

Question: How important are gamma lids in an arid environment where any given bucket will turn over once every three months, six maximum? By arid I mean 30%RH is uncharacteristically muggy. It is 15% RH right now and it feels normal. Once I level up to 6-12 month pantry depth I'll go for the gamma seals but for now I have the normal snap on lids. So far I haven't died. Are there subtle effects likely and I should just gamma up?

chenda
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Re: Bulk food buyers

Post by chenda »

Wholesalers can be useful though you often need to be a member, or know someone who is.

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Re: Bulk food buyers

Post by jacob »

AxelHeyst wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2023 4:08 pm
Question: How important are gamma lids in an arid environment where any given bucket will turn over once every three months, six maximum? By arid I mean 30%RH is uncharacteristically muggy. It is 15% RH right now and it feels normal. Once I level up to 6-12 month pantry depth I'll go for the gamma seals but for now I have the normal snap on lids. So far I haven't died. Are there subtle effects likely and I should just gamma up?
30% RH is uncharacteristically muggy, you say? I hate you now. Also, I miss CA. (This one doesn't like humidity. DW doesn't mind.)

In our case, we have a 6-9 month turnover, so no oxygen absorbers or mylar bags here.

Gamma seals are basically air tight, water proof, insect proof, stackable, and more convenient than snap lids, so after a one time expense you may wonder why you waited that long to get them. But this depends on how much of a hassle the formerly mentioned issues/risks/inconveniences were to you.

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Re: Bulk food buyers

Post by AxelHeyst »

Well, weather forecast for down in town is 116F next week, so there are pros and there are cons to the aridity....

Thanks for the response, I'll probably begin to add a few an order until I'm all gamma'd up. The best next move for me to make wrt preservation is probably to make a cool storage space. Right now my food storage is in the studio and I tolerate up to 95F indoor temps (working on up to 100F), which happens only for a few hours a day for a few months a year, so I'm unlikely to build active cooling. I doubt cycling up to 100F is good for the food...

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Slevin
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Re: Bulk food buyers and storers

Post by Slevin »

At <$8 each from azure standard, I think the saving one bucket once ever from going bad (assuming something like $2.50 x 25lbs or $2 x 25 lbs) pays for all of the lids? And assuming insects (and especially ants), if they find a way into one bucket they’re gonna be in all of them. Moisture probably similar (though agreed likely not a big issue for you).

I will echo Jacob though in saying they are the best lids and make the whole system usage drastically easier.

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Re: Bulk food buyers and storers

Post by AxelHeyst »

Touche. See, this is why I hang out here... smart friends will call me out on my nonrational bs.

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Re: Bulk food buyers and storers

Post by guitarplayer »

I am so far behind, in terms of grains or lentils I just get a 40-50lb bag and let it sit in the kitchen only casually wrapped to avoid them accidentally spilling over the floor. Maybe an advantage of pest free (we do get fruit flies though) second floor flat living. I appreciate this is a very non stackable solution.

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Re: Bulk food buyers and storers

Post by jennypenny »

I've gotten the best $/lb on black beans, lentils, garbanzo beans, and rice at our local restaurant store. After freezing them for a few days I repackage them into smaller bags -- I don't like storing 20+ pounds of anything together because if I had a bug, mold, or critter issue I'd lose too much food at once. I vacuum seal things into smaller bags (still kept in buckets and bins) and keep smaller buckets of open food in the pantry.

Has anyone tried vacuum sealing bulk foods in those large mason jars? I like vacuum sealing but dislike plastic bags.

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Slevin
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Re: Bulk food buyers and storers

Post by Slevin »

Never had an actual issue with the gamma seal lids until this morning, but now I have to put out a PSA to actually make sure the gamma seal lids are all the way closed / screwed on; Just woke up to argentine ants in my cat food gamma seal that I left the lid 1% unscrewed. Luckily it was only 25% filled. Tested and I don't think they couldn't get in anymore once I did the final 1% closing

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Ego
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Re: Bulk food buyers and storers

Post by Ego »

Mice got into my bulk drawers. Most of the bulk grains are kept in plastic containers with gamma seal lids, but I have a large set of drawers full of packaged foods I got from the used-food vendors. We were surprised to find that their favorite item was the bag of crushed chilis. The exterminator will be setting traps.

I am running out of rolled oats. Previously I tried to order from Azure Standard. Their price for oats is excellent (.65/lb) but the drop-off point near me did not meet the minimum, so they cancelled. Will try again. Is anything else a good price from Azure Standard? What do you regularly order from them?

ETA: I got six tubes of Nateal charcoal toothpaste for $1 today at the swap. She had piles. I should have purchased more.

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Re: Bulk food buyers and storers

Post by AxelHeyst »

Lentils. Rice, wheat berries, oats (rolled, steel cut, groats), coconut oil, powdered milk, dates, seeds, nuts, sugar…

I also get bulk spices from them but I haven’t price compared. I almost never buy produce or dairy from them because can get much better prices at grossout.

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Re: Bulk food buyers and storers

Post by theanimal »

For those in CA, the California dates at Grocery Outlet in the 2 lb bag are usually cheaper and taste a lot better than the ones from Azure, IMO.

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Slevin
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Re: Bulk food buyers and storers

Post by Slevin »

theanimal wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2023 4:57 pm
For those in CA, the California dates at Grocery Outlet in the 2 lb bag are usually cheaper and taste a lot better than the ones from Azure, IMO.
How recent is this tip? Usually they rotate out products about every month or so (except fresh produce) depending on what was available, so its always kinda roulette except for some standard local stuff. I'm gonna look for them anyways when I go to pick up bread later (Don't think I've ever seen dates there before).

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Re: Bulk food buyers and storers

Post by theanimal »

Slevin wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2023 5:14 pm
How recent is this tip? Usually they rotate out products about every month or so (except fresh produce) depending on what was available, so its always kinda roulette except for some standard local stuff. I'm gonna look for them anyways when I go to pick up bread later (Don't think I've ever seen dates there before).
We were buying them regularly from late August up until about 3.5 weeks ago. And we were able to find them at probably 5-6 different GroceOuts from NorCal to SoCal. Some of them only have the Mejdool dates in 12 oz bags. Those aren’t as good and are more expensive. The ones we saw were 32 oz in a white and green bag. I know each store is slightly different, but we always found them on the wall, near the mixed nuts. Never in the aisles.

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Re: Bulk food buyers and storers

Post by frugaldoc »

I am finding it difficult to find bulk food here in Japan. Everything is packaged in such small quantities and has a great deal of packaging waste. Fortunately, the movers didn't think much about the two five-gallon buckets they packed up in California. Those were full of beans and rice. So at least I have a supply of that. In my current situation bulk purchasing would be for saving money more than food security (they will always feed me on the ship). However, the dollar has been so strong compared to the Yen that food is pretty cheap. Last week I bought a nice hunk of fresh tuna steak (~1.2 kilo) for around $7.

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Re: Bulk food buyers and storers

Post by mathiverse »

I do see that you mentioned that the point is mainly food security rather than daily eating patterns, so perhaps this isn't relevant to your decision making. But I'll post anyway.

Are you sure that eating out is all that expensive compared to eating in in Japan? I recall this relevant discussion that suggested that eating out isn't as bad a choice in Japan as it is in the United States in terms of money saved.
Seppia wrote:
Fri May 05, 2023 8:16 am
Stats I remember from my food big corp I worked for 15 years ago:
Meals consumed 1 at home 2 out of home

Italy: 40/60
France: 50/50
USA: 40/60
Japan: 10/90

In Asia, people eat an overwhelming majority of their meals out of home.
This means the average restaurant/food truck/ramen bar has a LOT more foot traffic Vs its equivalent in say Europe.

This means 1 they have to rotate tables much faster 2 they can work on lower unit margins because they sell much more volume and the higher volume means a smaller per-unit impact of fixed costs (rent personnel etc)

The opposite economies of scale apply to supermarkets, making eating at home more expensive vs europe

The long short is eating out in Asia is faster and cheaper
C40 wrote:
Fri May 05, 2023 12:58 am
Some reasons [eating out is more common in Asia]:

- Extremely low labor costs
- Ingredient costs are lower because of the low labor costs
- Low labor and low cost of living results in restaurants staying in business even if the profit is really low
- Less seasonal temperature variation means more food types can be harvested numerous times per year. Ingredients are used more locally rather than shipping them long distances.
- A culture of eating out frequently helps to keep volume really high at restaurants and enables them to have really small profits on each meal sale. Even people with low incomes for the local area eat out regularly.
- Eating out can actually cost less than cooking at home. It's because of ingredient prices. The prices eating out are low enough that if you buy ingredients at a supermarket type store, it will cost you more. The only way to eat cheaper at home is to be quite good at buying food at low prices (going to the traditional markets and bargaining, or having connections with suppliers). In some Asian countries, one thing that old ladies commonly discuss with eachother is the prices they pay for foods at the market. It's a point of pride to be able to buy at the lowest prices and they will brag to eachother like "I buy these oranges for only $XX/kg, pretty good, huh"?
- Dense cities and one of the points above result in there being about 100 restaurants within 150m of my apartment.
- Extremely popular use of meal delivery services and competitive discounts resulting in delivered meal prices sometimes lower than in-store menu prices.
- Restaurants and food cultures there have evolved in times of poverty, scarcity, etc,... so they've been creative about finding ways to make food taste really good without using expensive ingredients. (and usually the methods are not less healthy, or are FAR more healthy than the ways American restaurants make food tasty)
- Simpler menus in restaurants. Many restaurants basically serve one dish, and the variety there is the type of meat added to that dish. This means 1 - you have your food served really quickly. At one place I frequent, I have my full meal on the table 20 seconds after walking in. And 2- This menu simplicity makes it possible for that one dish to be made really, REALLY well. Often the person making the food is the long-term owner, and in many cases that person has been making and selling that same exact dish every working day for the last 20 or 40 years. So the food here is literally very fast, but this food that is fast is normal - it's not unhealthy junk like most of the 'fast food' in the US.

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Re: Bulk food buyers and storers

Post by loutfard »

Singapore is probably the most outspoken example of takeout being cheap and fast versus cooking at home.

Returning to the topic, any hints that apply in the EU? We are blessed with five or six large Asian shops within a km from our home, but I'm always on the lookout for better deals, in particular for EU wide bulk delivery.

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