Junk Collecting

[sky]

As I drive around, I occasionally see houses with yards full of stuff, old cars, various equipment, household items, yard furniture, outdoor toys, hobby things, etc. In some cases the things are clearly unused. The result is a house that is surrounded by what looks like trash. The yard becomes impossible to mow and nature takes over. Eventually it becomes obvious that this is not just negligent blight, but that the residents have some type of aversion to picking up and disposing things.

The owners of the homes seem to have some mental condition that compels them to acquire things, and prohibits them from disposing of things. I am wondering if this is a learned behavior or a mental condition?

I am interested in this because I would like to increase my motivation to declutter, to regularly organize my desk, to organize my gear, manage my food inventory, dispose of unused things, organize my tools, etc. Perhaps understanding the mental illness of debris collecting might provide insight on how to avoid junk collecting and how to organize one's posessions.

[jacob]

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... c-20356056

It's mostly learned or anti-learned during one's formative years(*), but some mental conditions (OCD, stress, depression) makes it easier to "learn". Accumulation is a long process and eventually the amount of stuff just overwhelms people's ability to even begin to deal with it. The fact that people "aren't getting any younger" as they keep accumulating compounds the problem.

(*) Often there's a parent with the same problem or the opposite problem. E.g. a parent hoarded, so the child grows up thinking it's normal. Alternatively, the parent(s) had nothing, so the child grows up with a scarcity mentality and keeps everything.

The modern environment also shares some responsibility making it far easier to acquire stuff than dispose of it in any responsible way. For example, you can order something online with a single click and it will appear on your doorstep. However, getting rid of it again requires multiple clicks, pictures, dealing with buyers, ... so the ratio between the ease of input and output is outrageously high.

Psychologically, the problem can be that people form emotional attachments to their stuff, e.g. the broken toaster oven from 30 years ago. Stuff can also represent dreams and aspirations: "I'm keeping this because one day I'm going to ...". Ironically, hoarding unread books on "How to declutter". There can also be philosophical objections against throwing "good stuff" in the trash instead of finding someone who can/will use it. Some of these problems are cultural diseases as much as mental diseases, e.g. polluting the environs at our peril as people replace good things because they prefer new things. However, since the vast majority does it, fouling the collective nest is considered normal and not insane.

[Frita]

It’s ironic that collecting/cluttering/hoarding can be progressively worse as people get older. “Hearses don’t come with luggage racks,” after all. Who do folks think is going to clean this stuff up? What do they think will happen to their items?

Typically, hoarding is categorized as OCD. It can also be a (mal)adaptive coping mechanism, possibly progressing to behavioral addiction. The presence of a co-morbid mental health condition and/or substance addiction can make it worse.

And another thing I notice is having a bunch of disorganized used stuff/junk seems to be worse than newish things stuffed into a space. But aren’t both avoidant? There are business-driven solutions marketed to the consumer. The organization industry hawks containers and shelves. Storage units businesses allow one pay monthly to forget about saved items. Real estate agents suggest a bigger house with a basement or larger garages.

[Dream of Freedom]

Keeping stuff around hasn't always been maladaptive. You live in a particularly prosperous time.

[jacob]

Who do folks think is going to clean this stuff up? What do they think will happen to their items?

There's a cartoon making the rounds in minimalist circles showing a garage full of stuff and a senior going: "One day son all this will be yours!"

I suspect some of it is generational. Parents used to collect towels, utensils, etc. to start their children off in life. Ditto keeping old furniture because it was too expensive to buy new when moving out. It requires somewhat of a paradigm shift [by generational death] to abandon these traditions.

Since I've had several very long (years and years) and boring conversations about just who will clean this stuff up, the answer is "well, of course, you guys! When I'm dead you all get to go through it and pick out what you want".

The driving belief is that there's gold in them thar garages which the heirs will appreciate

A convincing argument to get the senior folks to engage in some overdue Swedish death cleaning rather than maintaining the illusion that they're doing their children/relatives some kind of favor by "saving the stuff" is to tell them that you already have everything you need and if there's anything left behind when they die, you'll be renting a dumpster and throwing it all out. Harsh! Maybe phrase it more gently, but do get the point across. They will then conclude that insofar there's any value it's up to them to make the sale or donation while they're still alive/functional.

[ffj]

The need to continuously organize and manage can also morph into an unhealthy mental condition. Although if one were to choose which affliction to suffer from, well, that's an easy choice.

It is so easy to accumulate excess stuff and calories. You don't even have to buy anything as people will just give it to you. So part of what you are witnessing is just wealth spilling over into tangible items. Not necessarily hoarding. And if you have any kind of interests or side hustles then it compounds the issue greatly.

Also, different lifestyles necessitate different levels of "stuff". A farmer will have much more stuff than an author for example. Because the farmer has to be able to operate and a lot of his "junk" are potential spare parts for when something breaks.

But I think a lot of the problem comes down to the fact that we produce too many things in the name of continuous growth. That shit has to go somewhere. Either your over-stuffed closet or the landfill.

[7Wannabe5]

Compared to other problems, getting rid of somebody’s accumulated possessions when they die or go into care is does not have to be a big deal. You can just get an estate sale/junk hauling team to take care of it very quickly with the aid of swarms of professional and amateur “scavengers.”

It’s also possible to err on the side of doing your Swedish death cleaning too early. I minimalized myself down to fitting all my belongings into small car at around the age of 53, and it was satisfying on some level, but ultimately kind of pointless.

[ffj]

@jacob

Here is a nice compromise to counter the harshness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=celv8TTTYU4

I've been working on my mother-in-laws home and this is a video I suggested my wife show to her. It is hard to clean the house because there is so much stuff in the way and she is not in the best of health. If she would give me permission I would empty that entire place (literally rent a dumpster) and do a deep clean. But the reality is that unless something changes the kids will have to do that one day.

[grundomatic]

That article, @Jacob’s post, and @sky’s concerns all resonate with me. I fight a disposition towards hoarding, whatever the origin. Like if I come at my pile of stuff occasionally with a hard-core minimalist hammer, I can approximate a normal living situation. I’m thankful I can at least recognize the problem. We can talk about things that have helped me.

Part of my problem is indeed not wanting good stuff to go to waste. Learning that half of the stuff that goes to Goodwill gets thrown away did not help this. Reading Early Retirement Extreme the first time helped broaden my perspective to utility and waste beyond my own. Giving away my stuff on freecycle (hopefully) keeps new things from being bought in the short term, and new things from being produced in the long term. Higher value items can be sold, and a low price will make them move nearly as fast as free things. Back then, success built on success. Getting a little money, making a lot of room, and seeing people stoked about their good deal led to me doing more of it. Similarly, more recent stress has led to stuff piling up, and the more stuff piles up, the more I want to avoid dealing with it, and the trend continues in the wrong way. Moving to a smaller place previously helped apply some pressure. Moving to a larger place now allows stuff to pile up easier.

As far as emotional attachment goes, I found some value in Marie Kondo’s thanking an item for its service, especially for gifts I couldn’t use. The item served its job when it was given as a gift. Thank it, then send it along. Shirt I used to love but is no longer my style? Thank you for your service, and goodbye. This does not work for me with super sentimental items. When I come across something that embodies memories, I end up thinking “What will remind me of this if I get rid of this item?” In the memory box it stays. The best I can end up doing is consolidating to a single item from a person, place, or time period of my life instead of multiple items.

Oh, aspirational projects. I see the potential in everything, and I am terrible at
1. Knowing how long it will take to complete something
2. Knowing what I’ll be interested in down the road
3. Recognizing how the clutter cramps my ability to actually do the projects
Now, I have mostly been able to get past buying bits and parts for potential projects at retail by realizing that with a large bankroll, I can just buy what I need when (but really if) I need it. What gets me in trouble is the free or cheap-as-free-stuff. I just do periodic purges, with the trouble being that I often cycle back to old interests and regret the few things I want again but are now going to cost me way more, etc., and forget the many things that have gone that I never end up missing.

I wish I had more and better solutions for you @sky, as well as for myself.

[jacob]

... with the trouble being that I often cycle back to old interests and regret the few things I want again but are now going to cost me way more, etc., and forget the many things that have gone that I never end up missing.

Ahh yes, I've heard those ones too. Also, "I'm going to buy this because it's on [yard] sale and I might need it some day" and "If it's free, it's for me". One resulting issue is that people often end up owning several items of something because they forget they already had it or where it was. Hence the standard minimalist advice of "keeping likes with likes".

Another compounding issue for old folks is that once someone starts cleaning up their act, they'll offer up and transfer their excess stuff to their friends. This is either a systemic problem or a systemic solution depending on who is in the waste stream. Some ERE people have their nets materially in the waste stream thus getting stuff very inexpensively or even making a profit. However, for hoarder and consumer destinations---those who don't use or sell the stuff again---it merely shifts the problem onto someone else's clutter-storage. When relatives die or go to a retirement home where excess junk is not allowed, their homes tend to end up with the hot potato.

In general, the solution to the problem of stuff s not "organizing the problem of stuff" but preventing it from occurring. Three rules:

1. One in, one out.
2. A place for everything and everything in its place.
3. Likes with likes.

This will put the kibosh on any growth or hoarding. However, it will also make it hard/impossible or at least create serious resistance to doing anything that actually requires new stuff or more stuff. For example, hardcore minimalists tend to be very limited in their capabilities beyond doing yoga, podcasting, traveling, and eating out.

[Henry]

Winning the simplicity war is one thing. Winning the simplicity peace is another. Every item that comes into the home gets vetted like it's a potential threat to the hard fought battle that got us here. If we decide to move on a moment's notice, we don't have to spend one second evaluating what comes with us. Find the baseline, and don't let it move an inch unless it's towards reduction.

[sky]

When it comes to regular organization of things (rather than a full on death declutter), I observe the following techniques that trigger the motivational spark to start picking things up and organizing or disposing clutter:

1. Disgust. When one looks around and decides that this area is just too disorganized, dirty or non-functional, it is time to clean it up.
2. Obsessive-Compulsive. When one frequently looks around for anything that is out of its place and immediately puts things the way they should be.
3. Scheduled. When one follows a routine or is reminded by a calendar to clean and organize, for example trash pickup every Monday, washing dishes and cleaning the kitchen every evening, or a weekly calendar event that reminds one to take some action to clean and organize.

Are there other trigger types that would start someone to take action to declutter, clean and organize?

[sky]

4. Checklist. Keep a written list of things which need to be done, and refer to the list occasionally as a reminder. No need to think or worry about what needs to be done, just write it down and check the list when you have time to take care of things. The list may include one time tasks or recurring tasks.

[ffj]

@sky

In the fire service, we had a cleaning schedule for everything from mowing the grass to cleaning the bays to emptying and cleaning the kitchens. So in addition to your normal cleaning every day there would be an additional deep cleaning of some part of the fire station or grounds. It worked well.

[jacob]

In the fire service, we had a cleaning schedule for everything from mowing the grass to cleaning the bays to emptying and cleaning the kitchens. So in addition to your normal cleaning every day there would be an additional deep cleaning of some part of the fire station or grounds. It worked well.

The dojo I attended had a similar system. Once a year, all students would gather for a Saturday morning and start checking off boxes on what was a very long list (1) clean this, 2) clean that, 3) ...). "Spring cleaning" is practically ritualistic (ritualistically practical) in Japanese culture. This could be done at home to good effect too. It could even be a social thing with several people getting together and taking turns on each other's homes. This way it all gets done by the end of the day.

[ertyu]

5. I associate decluttering and organizing with a feeling of lightness and enjoying my neat, tidy enclosure when done. So one can be motivated by the after-minimizing "vibe" one wishes to experience.

[sky]

Virtue: A desire for the serenity and harmony that cleanliness brings.

[sky]

6. Observation. Walk around and look for things that need to be taken care of and cleaned up.

[jacob]

6. Observation. Walk around and look for things that need to be taken care of and cleaned up.

One technique is to start at your entrance door and always deal with the first clutter in your way. The theory is to deal with the clutter than you and guests will see first as well as making steady inroads.

[7Wannabe5]

A technique better suited to extroverts would be to invite people over to force you to clean. Some humans even find that hiring a cleaning person improves their behavior, due to not wanting to be judged by the help.

Another way to improve observation/focus if you tend towards living in your head rather than your environment would be to put your hands together to form a smaller viewing frame and look around you through this smaller frame. This is also a method towards interior design.