@theanimal (or others), best way to roadtrip/see Alaska & Western Canada?

[TopHatFox]

I think it'd be fun to do a big road trip through the highlights of western Alberta, British Columbia, the Yukon, and Alaska. I usually plan the road trips as a big, meandering circle including major and mid cities, national monuments, national parks, national historic sites, and unique stops like the Biltmore Mansion or Alcatraz Island.

I noticed that a lot of the national parks in Alaska don't really have any roads leading to them, which is unlike the rest of the US. In fact, it looks like pretty much all of south-western and northern Alaska have no roads at all. It almost seems like you're better off having a pilot's license in Alaska than a driver's license.

Is it better to just buy a cruise that takes you to see places like Glacier Bay NP, Kenai Fjords NP, Lake Clark NP, and Katmai NP? Maybe it's possible to see Denali NP from Highway 3, and it looks like you need to charter a flight from Cold Foot to see Gates of the Arctic NP. It seems like the capital, Juneau, can't be accessed by road, but maybe by ferry.

It's very interesting to have all this nature at your disposal, but it's much harder to access. What do Alaskans do when the few highway roads blizzard-over in the winter, especially with it being totally dark for months of the year?

[theanimal]

Well, first off I wouldn't do a cruise, based off what you said you are interested in. You will see some sights from the boat, but will be ferried around with ten thousand of your closest friends and not have much time to do stuff off the boat except for planned activities and short stops in towns along the way. In 2019 (before the pandemic, Juneau had something like 1.3 million cruise visitors. They are expected to have 100k more this year. That's something like 10-15k tourists (or one cruise's worth) a day in a town of ~30k. Juneau is the 2nd largest city in AK. The other towns you'd visit would number in the low 1000s, if not hundreds.

There is very limited infrastructure in Alaska and it is a very big place, something that I don't think can really be appreciated until having spent time here or in a similar locale. Yes, most of Alaska is off the road system and there is only one road that goes through the northern half of Alaska and no roads that go to western AK. Summer trails are generally the exception in most places, including national parks, increasingly so as you move further north. The Kenai Peninsula and the Chugach National Forest around Anchorage probably have the most trails in the state. But otherwise in the summer people are going off trail, following game trails, old mining trails etc. In the winter there are endless trails, along rivers and all throughout the forest and tundra. From my house I could pretty much ski on trails to essentially any town within Alaska.

I would suggest travelling in the summer. You are able to see everything by car, including some national parks. Most of the parks do not have roads or infrastructure into them but it is still possible to see them. There is one 100 mile road that goes east to west across the northern portion of Denali NP. Private vehicles are permitted to mile 13 and prohibited the rest of the way. There is a road that goes through the northern portion of Wrangell St. Elias NP as well as the southern portion. I used to live in Coldfoot and the surrounding area. I can give you some recommendations regarding hiking in the area as well as Gates of the Arctic NP if you end up going.

The can't miss areas, or areas I'd suggest basing a trip on, would be as follows:

- The Brooks Range (ie Dalton Highway, Gates of the Arctic, Arctic Refuge): The wildest area on the road system in the state. Tons of outdoor things to do. More or less all public land. The road goes through the width of the range for 100 miles, and beyond the northern treeline. Very, very wild. You will pass no town and only a handful of homes for the 6 hr drive from Fairbanks to Coldfoot. There is only one town on the road from Fairbanks to the Arctic Ocean (~500 mi).

-Denali Highway (not associated with the park) goes along the the southern base of the Alaska Range for 135 mi. Lots of wildlife, blueberries in the fall and very few tourists

-Wrangell St Elias National Park- largest in the US and world. Tons to see and very, very few tourists.

I would recommend centering the trip in those areas around early summer (late May, early June) or fall (August-mid September), especially in the northern areas as early June to early July is peak bugs. On the coast, there are hardly any bugs. North of the Alaska range there are a lot.

Regarding Canada, you will be travelling on the Alcan for much of the route. There are some cool provincial parks along the way like Kluane and Muncho Lake with plenty of options for hiking and camping. It might be worthwhile to take a side trip to Haines and Skagway, AK. They are 2 of 3 communities on the road system in southeast AK, which would give you an opportunity to see coastal mountains, historic areas like the Chilkoot trail and potentially make side trips to places like Glacier Bay if you were interested in something like that.

The Milepost is considered the best road log in Alaska (and the routes to AK) and will give you information regarding services and sights along the roads within the state. It'd be worth checking out for more ideas and planning.

[TopHatFox]

That sounds good, I was thinking a driving-every-hour-of-sunlight, 4-week road trip, split in two-week vacations b/w western Alberta + BC + Yukon, and Alaska. Don't really want to do the van life thing yet as wfh and my job is new to me. Maybe I can do the first 2 weeks this fall. Will need to choose whether Alaska or western Canada for the fall trip. Banff & Jasper NP sure look cool.

[theanimal]

I wouldn't go to all 3 of the places I mentioned in 2 weeks, that'd be a ton of driving, even for AK. It sounds like you would be starting from an airport?

It's also worth noting that fall is hunting season and those areas will have more people along the road around opening day (Aug 10 caribou and sheep;Sept 5-10 moose) But like hikers, the vast majority of hunters do not go more than a mile from the road, so it's just the road corridors that are relatively more crowded.

[TopHatFox]

I think it makes the most sense to loop around Alaska and the Yukon flying into Anchorage for one 2-week vacation set, and loop around western Alberta and BC flying into Calgary for the second 2-week vacation set. I think these have to be summer or early fall road trips, cause rental cars don't have snow tires. I suppose the big difference with the western US and Alaska is that there are significantly less roads and cities, so the destinations are more clear-cut & short. Another interesting variable is that I don't yet know what The Alaskan sunlight hours are for different parts of the year.

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Alaska + YK + NWT: I did 13-16 hours of driving a day when I did all the western states, and if I include weekends when taking 10 days off work, that's 16 days * 13 hours of driving a day = 208 hours of driving time available. I think that's good to do a loop-di-loop on all main attractions of Alaska & the Yukon (and maybe Tuktoyaktuk in the Northwest Territories) based off Google Maps driving estimates.

Alberta + BC + NWT: For the western Canadian trip, 208 hours of driving should be enough to do a loop-di-loop from Calgary through western Alberta, BC, Yellowknife in the Northwest Territories, and back to Calgary through Edmonton. I don't really do any big hikes or camping on the road trips, for now it's just to enjoy the scenery/attractions, and get an understanding of the lay of the land.

[theanimal]

Alaska + YK + NWT: I did 13-16 hours of driving a day when I did all the western states, and if I include weekends when taking 10 days off work, that's 16 days * 13 hours of driving a day = 208 hours of driving time available. I think that's good to do a loop-di-loop on all main attractions of Alaska & the Yukon (and maybe Tuktoyaktuk in the Northwest Territories) based off Google Maps driving estimates.

Man, that sounds rough. I would not recommend doing that. I don't doubt that you could do it, but I can't see any reason why you would want to. That seems like a very poor and inefficient means of achieving your objectives.

If you're looking to just get a sense of the area like that, a better use of your time would probably be spending a couple days looking around on YouTube and Google Earth.

If you are just going to do your idea anyways, then what I said above in my previous responses doesn't really matter for your purposes. The only thing I would suggest then is to make sure with the rental company that there are no travel restrictions with regards to road surface(gravel), mileage limits and whether you can go into Canada. There are some that prohibit gravel road use and the use of some highways, which would eliminate some of the areas I mentioned.

[TopHatFox]

That's a good idea to check yeah, especially if I can take the rental car into Canada. I've taken rental cars through dirt roads before, though I'm not sure if you're allowed to (definitely nothing more than dirt tho, not trying to get stuck). The major rental car companies give me unlimited miles, and every time I take one of their cars, they need an oil change by the end of the trip lol.

It's actually not bad at all, you fly to a major airport, rent a car, and go to sleep at a hotel/motel. You get up early, then drive from sunup (usually 5 to 7 AM) to sunset (usually 6-7 PM) through beautiful landscapes and with intermittent stops for 16 memorable af days. Meals are usually in the car or after sundown. I usually do the trips with 1 or 2 friends to split the motel and food costs.

I dunno, Youtube and Google Earth aren't the same. Photography/VR isn't good enough yet at transmitting scale, distance, or what one feels as driving through an area. Previous research on GE or Google Maps is really useful to know what you're driving through and how it relates to the surrounding states or provinces.

[Laura Ingalls]

My DH and son did an Alaska trip about a year ago. They flew into Juneau and out of Anchorage with a car rental. They rented a car for most of it. In Juneau they walked and rode public transportation.

My DH prefers to travel more on the fly without a set itinerary or a bunch of reservations. He violated that for the this trip and made pretty detailed plans. He had reservations for like nine of the 14 nights he was gone. The remaining nights were camping plus one cheapish hotel. One day he called me and asked to reserve him a hotel night where they had stayed earlier on points. I looked it up and no point room totally booked. Anchorage had basically no rooms. They ended up camping several hours north of there. Lots of tourists and more planning beforehand is probably going to yield a better experience.

I think your plan has way too much driving, but I am not a road tripper. I like to get to my destination and start walking around.

Rental cars were very expensive too. DH actually got a good deal but it was an actual mistake rate the weekly rate was supposed to be the daily rate.

Weekly car rental trending about $1500. I just checked.

[TopHatFox]

@Laura, yeah, I think that's why having 1 or 2 ppl to splitting costs 3 ways is essential. You're still gonna spend a few thousand/person/16-day trip, but it's worth it, as you then have a clear idea of what different parts of the world are like. I do know that summer costs are always higher cause kids are out of prison, er -- school -- and more likely to be traveling (> demand). Main costs are:

1. Round trip airfare to major airport (each)
2. Rental car (split 3-ways)
3. Gas (split 3-ways)
4. Walmart food (split 3-ways)
5. Museum tickets, park entrances, etc. (split 3-ways)

[Laura Ingalls]

They used an Alaskan companion fare with the BoA Alaska Card. Might be worth checking out

[Colibri]

I live in the Yukon. As mentionned in other replies, this is a lot to pack in a short trip. Many major roads in the Yukon are gravel roads or partially paved, same thing in Alaska. It might take longer than planned to make distances.
Road washout, forest fire jumping the highway, early snowfall, things like that happen every year. Those things can slow down your travel or just put a end to it.
Better to plan too much time than too little.
Would be disappointing to spend all that money in car rental and not see all of what you would like to experience. The North is such an amazing place.

P.S. Do go to Tuktoyaktuk if you can. Highly recommend.

[TopHatFox]

@Colibri, is the main highway to Tuktoyaktuk fully paved? (highways 9, 2, 5, and 8) I'll likely avoid gravel roads if they're too long, sticking to main highways instead (unless they have something really cool at the end). Gravel roads slow the pace down like 4x.

Yeah, in California, forest fires derailed my trip south into southern Idaho instead. I'm OK w/ making changes as needed. Hopefully all major highways don't get blockaded by fire, snow, or caribou.

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Just checked. A bunch of major highways in these places are straight-up dirt (like to Prudhoe Bay or Tuktoyaktuk). That's almost unheard of in the Lower-48. All it takes is a big rain-fall and you'd need a pick-up truck to get through the inevitable ruts...you guys are like a different country o.0

I'm curious if the Google Maps drive estimates include the fact that you're driving on non-paved roads and therefore can't go 70 mph.

Also also: it must be $$$ every time one wants to travel out of Alaska, either in a long drive time or expensive flight. Interesting. Must attract ppl that want that isolation I suppose. It's like living in Hawaii, but with polar bears and moose.

I wonder if it may be better to rent a quarter-ton truck instead of a Civic or Corolla for this trip, or at least a compact or intermediate SUV with higher clearance. I doubt you can even legally drive such long dirt roads with rentals. Hm, maybe anchorage rentals make an exception. Will also need a satellite phone in case we get stranded. All of this adds way more expenses & research than a regular trip.

[Laura Ingalls]

There are unpaved state highways in at least one lower 48 state. Ask me how I know

[TopHatFox]

Which one? All the state & interstate highways were paved in the lower-48, even the ones in the middle of friggin’ nowhere southern NM or NE Montana

[Laura Ingalls]

Wyoming

[unemployable]

Which one?

New Mexico still has one that goes to a National Park Service unit! Highway 57, to Chaco Culture.

North Carolina 197 is partly unpaved, and I drove the unpaved part last month to get to a trailhead.

I think Virginia still has a couple as well.

[TopHatFox]

Interesting, wouldn't they form ruts like crazy when it rains or snows? Maybe you can get by with a sedan for most of it, but if even one stretch is messed up, you gotta turn around or risk getting stuck...

[unemployable]

If it's part of the state highway system it's probably hard-packed and pretty well maintained. Including being graded well enough in the first place and providing adequate drainage via ditches, culverts and the like.

What you are thinking of is an issue on some forest service roads, which face the additional problem of people driving them intentionally during bad conditions with vehicles that tend to rough up the surface such as ATVs and modified Jeeps.

[TopHatFox]

So you think I can go over the Dalton highway to Prudhoe Bay with a basic compact/interediate SUV or even a sedan (in the summer)?

[theanimal]

There are only 2 rental companies in the state that allow driving on the Dalton. Alaska 4x4 auto rental and GoNorth. Rates are much higher than typical rentals. They rent crossovers and SUVs with a full extra tire, cb radio and some other supplies. The rest of the companies explicitly prohibit travel there as well as on other gravel highways/roads such as the Denali highway.

ETA:The dalton aka the haul road is an industrial road that is composed mainly of trucks coming and going to the oil fields. Oil is how Alaska funds the government, so yes there is year round maintenance but that doesn’t mean the road is good. Middle of winter are the best driving conditions as the grade is smoothest and traction is good. Worst are during August to about mid September until things go below freezing during the day. DOT stops doing maintenance on the road then (fall) and that is the rainy season so there can be some really rough sections (washboard and potholes). For example, there have been occasions where it takes 14 hrs to travel the 240 mi from Coldfoot to Deadhorse/Prudhoe. In decent road conditions, it takes about 5.5-6 on a straight shot. These are gravel roads, they are not dirt roads or trails like you are describing.