Open My Eyes: where can I get a house + garage in a safe area for <250K?

[TopHatFox]

I've been using Zillow, and it's depressing as hell. Even earning 75K/yr, I feel like I can't afford any house. :c Where can I get a house + garage in a safe area for <250K? Fixer-upper is OK within reason (like changing tile, paint, fixtures, flooring, trim, roof shingles, etc. -- no fixing foundations, flood damage, or similar).

My job is remote, likely for the foreseable future and the company seems stable, so time-zone wise and citizenship-wise, I can live anywhere in the US, Argentina, or EU countries (but I think EU countries would be pushing it as the time-zone differences are 5-6 hours). I don't know whether Americans can buy houses in Canada, but I probably don't want to live there anyway. IOW, I just need good internet.

In metropolises like LA or NYC, 500K+ gets you a condo. In big cities like Denver or SLC, a regular SFH is 400-500K, easy. The affordable houses seem to be where no one wants to live, like Kansas, Nebraska, or West Virginia. It's really making the places middle class ppl can live much narrower. I think I'm at the point where I'm okay looking at smaller cities or towns in good states. I still would really like to live somewhere interesting in UT or CO, water concerns be damned. That said, I don't feel OK spending half-a-million on a collection of concrete, steel, wood, copper, and sheetrock, + the dirt it sits on.

[ertyu]

I mean, Argentina sounds great to me, what's wrong with that plan

[TopHatFox]

@ertyu, entire family tells me it's scary there, lots of instability, thieves, murder. I suppose I could buy a house there tho, as I am a bonafide citizen. Maybe there are some cities/regions that are safe for expats, and the houses are cheaper since I'd be buying in USD and the Argentine Peso is basically worthless at this point (1 Argentine Peso = .0043 USD, or ~232 AP = 1 USD)

[ertyu]

@ertyu, entire family tells me it's scary there, lots of instability, thieves, murder. I suppose I could buy a house there tho, as I am a bonafide citizen. Maybe there are some cities/regions that are safe for expats, and the houses are cheaper since I'd be buying in USD and the Argentine Peso is basically worthless at this point (1 Argentine Peso = .0043 USD, or ~232 AP = 1 USD)

this might work in your favor: if that's the public perception, if it scares away the wasps, it only benefits you in terms of lower property prices. ditto with the economic instability, i heard interest rates are at 97% now or some such, someone paying cash in usd will have a massive advantage i'd think. stay away for the top 3 regions that you hear about being "ok for expats" because they're likely overpriced. i'd go down there, rent first, see how things are. talk to some expats, make friends with the kinds of locals you'd like to hang out with and see where they live, etc. you lose nothing, you gain life experience. if you're a bona fide citizen, it's no brainer imo. going for argentina now would be the equivalent of buying stocks at the bottom

[TopHatFox]

@ertyu, assuming I don't get ransomed, but fair enough, I see your point. Will research it as an option

[Ego]

If you buy or sign a long-term lease in a place where the only job worth having is remote, then you have locked yourself into finding and holding a remote job. If you hate your job, you are stuck.

Why not take advantage of the fact that you can work remote? Like this little place in San Telmo for $640/mo. After a month, try another neighborhood. Or move to Rio. Or Medellin, DF or Oaxaca.

You are free. Use it while you have it.

[ertyu]

or you can comes join us buttfuck nowhere eastern europe, properties are cheaper and last i heard people don't get ransomed lol.

[TopHatFox]

@ertyu, you guys are still sovereign nations? I am learning Russian after German :p

[white belt]

If you want to stay in the USA there are a ton of places that meet that criteria. They just aren't going to show up on Instagram as a trendy place to move to because that means they are already overpriced. I've lived throughout the southeast so I know that area best, but my understanding is there are also many places in the midwest that meet the criteria. Off the top of my head I know a handful of locations that fit your criteria in Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, North Carolina, etc. There are metro areas with >200k population. If you want more rural or small college town feel, then there are those places as well. You just need to get out of the Austin/LA/NYC tech bro social media bubble. It should be pretty easy to find these things if you first sort by metro area size in each state and then dig in from there (assuming you want some urban amenities). People act like there is no world outside of a half dozen "hip" metro areas.

If you buy or sign a long-term lease in a place where the only job worth having is remote, then you have locked yourself into finding and holding a remote job. If you hate your job, you are stuck.

Basically this. I think it's pretty risky to buy a house in an area that doesn't have local jobs (assuming you need a job). Keep in mind that the job market is still running hot so it's possible remote jobs will become much harder to come by in the near future. I understand the whole programming tech remote job argument, but the reality is companies can and will do whatever they want when unemployment goes up and people need jobs. Buying a house isn't some cheat code to having a good life; it's just a tool in the toolbox. It won't solve all of your problems.

Personally, I agree with @Ego that maybe you're better off renting in few different places for maybe 1-2 months at a time to get a feel for what you like.

ETA: Aren't you in Florida? Off the top of my head there is Jacksonville, Tallahassee, and Gainesville among many others. They are all still relatively affordable compared to more popular metro areas like Miami, Tampa, and Orlando.

[ertyu]

I think it's pretty risky to buy a house in an area that doesn't have local jobs (assuming you need a job).

Even if 1. you don't need a job and 2. you'll always be able to find a remote job consider what will become of the area when *other people* can't get local jobs. think detroit for an extreme example.

the reason why i bought a place is to have somewhere to die. i deliberately wanted it to overlook the city; assuming one's got one's brains, one can sit on the balcony and still get the feeling of having spent time "outside." i liked how trash place is in the shade until 11am in the summer; excellent hang out on the balcony with coffee time.

if i were buying in my 20s, id buy a place i could rent out until it's time for me to stop working god knows where and go "settle down" and wait to die. trash place is a block and a half away from the city park, a block and a half away from a fresh produce market, and with 5-6 grocery stores in 10 min walking radius. the street it's on goes towards the local university and is lined with cafes. "downtown," as in the city square, is 20 min by foot. the place itself is in a horrific condition and will eat up I estimate and additional 30k+ in repairs but the location isn't half-bad.

[zbigi]

I've been using Zillow, and it's depressing as hell. Even earning 75K/yr, I feel like I can't afford any house. :c

Sounds like a matter of perspective. In my country, a young person who's just starting in a career wouldn't even dream of owning a house with a garage, much less in a city (but even remote stickland is too expensive). Nobody is depressed for that reason.

Also, did you check if your company is ok with you working remotely from a foreign country? Suprisingly, a lot of companies are not.

Also, what's wrong with Nebraska? It's good enough for Warren Buffet. Omaha looked nice in an HBO documentary about him. Most people in the world would kill (figuratively) to live in a city like Omaha. Aren't you falling prey to the "striving-suffering" cycle, where we suffer because we want something that's just outside of our reach, instead of enjoing the perfectly good things available to us?

[take2]

Dude you are all over the place. In your journal you said you were likely c. 5 years from buying. Has that changed in a matter of 2 weeks?

Bounce around for a bit and figure out where you want to live. Agree with @zbigi that working from a foreign country is probably a big no for your company given tax implications. You are a W2 and a US citizen so whilst you’re liable for US tax no matter where you live, depending on the tax treaty with the relevant country, the country of residence usually has first rights to tax the income. You then get tax credits or use the foreign income exclusion to offset US liability. It gets incredibly complicated for companies to deal with (especially smaller companies) as they can be held liable if you aren’t taxed properly so the answer is usually just “no”.

You can fly under the radar by not telling them and using a VPN but just know you’re taking on your own tax issues if you do that. Generally (although it varies by country so DYOR) if you stay less than 30-90 days you typically don’t incur tax liability so it’s a good strategy to bounce around but not really the best to settle down. Long term you face the other issues raised re: what happens if you lose the job, etc.

If you do want to get formal approval I personally wouldn’t ask until you’re more established and have curried some favor with the guys who call the shots. You just started so prob not the best look to be asking immediately.

[chenda]

There's a lot of places in western Europe which would work. But I agree renting first is preferable, especially if you are moving abroad.

[jacob]

Also, did you check if your company is ok with you working remotely from a foreign country? Suprisingly, a lot of companies are not.

Some don't even agree to employees working from another state.

[Henry]

you guys are still sovereign nations?

Considering that typical home buyers start with questions about school systems and local eateries, not geopolitics, you might want to take a pause and think about exactly where you are in the process.

[sky]

Buy a Toyota Sienna minivan, camp in the back, and go exploring to see what is out there.

[ffj]

Shouldn't your question be rephrased " where can I get an affordable house where I would prefer to live?"

Like others, I can show multiple listings here in the States where 250 goes a long way. Properties are priced in relation to location. There are multiple reasons certain locations are desirable but chances are if you desire it, so do many, many others.

So either find a hack to live in those desirable locations or explore the possibilities of more remote locations. And understand that even the stereotypical "bad" States will have gems throughout them. Or at least affordable property near where you would like to spend time.

Zillow is often wrong btw. If you want a true sense of available properties and their price points, you need to see a Realtor. They have their finger on the pulse of what is really happening.

[take2]

Buy a Toyota Sienna minivan, camp in the back, and go exploring to see what is out there.

+1 but I would start with converting a sprinter van or similar first and touring from there . Given the OP’s recent automotive skill development it could be quite complementary. For example:

- buy the van, continue living with your parents whilst you fit it out
- launch your journey westward (per your journal)
- bounce around for 18-24 months in different locations
- eventually decide where you want to be and purchase thereafter

Your costs should be reduced by not needing to pay rent and if you fit out the van properly / research where you can stay it might not be a bad lifestyle. Given you are single and wish to stay that way it’s a low cost way to save + gather data on where you want to be.

[TopHatFox]

@Ego, that's a good point, who knows if remote work is here to stay. I think that's another reason that I'm iffy on Argentina. If I'm gonna buy a house, it'd likely be somewhere I can live indefinitely. Still, traveling around is perfectly fine. That's crazy that it's so cheap for Americans to stay a whole month. Good to know.

@whitebelt, that's a good strategy. Yeah, if the place is popular, forget it -- 500K house. It is true that companies do whatever. Even a lot of the AC alumni I talked to got canned, and they were coders (had a new job quick tho). Companies doing whatever is in their best interest alone can make planning hard, but that's here to stay.

@ertyu, yeah, I hear that argument. Having somewhere where even if you lose your job or get injured, you won't be homeless, that's pretty good. I've driven all around Nebraska and Kansas, nothing wrong with them, but any mountains, canyons, or other cool outdoor activities are states away. Not really a place I'd consider a forever home, lest you really wanted intellectual hobbies. I think my company has employees in SA, SE Asia, and so on, but they're not US citizens. Haven't asked, and don't want to this early in the game.

@take2, yeah, not sure if can stay at parents house and gf changed mind (totally OK) & wants to have a kid, so I think I'll likely be single & wanting to go elsewhere with my computer soon. Even if I can stay, you don't just show up and buy a house in 5 years. Lots of research needs to happen between now & then. Agreed on everything international, why I'm thinking it makes more sense to get something in the US. Besides, US is huge. Nothing wrong with bouncing around to see the world while working.

@sky, yes, van or RV life with internet sounds very appealing. Will probably cost a lot upfront in terms of a van & converting it.

@ffj, I've noticed that Zillow kinda sucks. I'll give Realtor.com (ha) a look, perhaps it's more accurate. Realtors are for when you decide on an area I think, it's kinda a waste of their time to go in not knowing what you want or where you want it.

@take2, That sounds like a great strategy. Will there be internet? & how much do you think a used Sprinter + conversion would cost? A lot of builds are a crazy $60k (for a van and some wood + cabinets)!

[take2]

I am not best placed to answer those questions but
IIRC someone on the forum was also converting vans as a side hustle so maybe someone else can jump in. Otherwise Google is your friend.

As for internet there are lots of ways to solve that problem - 4G hotspots, mobile tethering, well planned routes where you identify where you will stop, driving only on weekends or nights when you aren’t working, etc.

Just keep in mind it’s a pretty big change in lifestyle so not something to jump into without researching. Bathrooms, showers, food, etc. All solvable problems but ones that need more thought and consideration vs just taking a standard year or month to month lease somewhere.

Given your other questions re: university courses I think you first need to decide what you really want as I don’t think you can do all of this simultaneously.