EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

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Sclass
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by Sclass »

Wow I’m learning a lot here. Had no idea of the fit doper connection for females. Now I’m second guessing all the gals I know who have it all.

Opium huh? :? Many years ago I had some experience cultivating it. Turns out poppyseed is from opium poppy P.Somniferum. It’s a byproduct of opium production. The DEA required that all imports to be sterilized with X-rays in the 1980s and 90s. I discovered out about 10% of the seeds in a spice bottle are still viable. It’s fun to see what colors you get in a particular bottle.

Mostly it made me sleepy with kind of a sinking or drowning into darkness after I took a few hits. You ever felt yourself consciously falling asleep? I think the technical term for it is “sleep paralysis.” That is my best description of opium intoxication. And yes, it feels good.

Today I am anti drug. It has been a long road but I’m pretty happy with how things are. It’s easier being sober. Odd because we abuse when things are hard.

ETA - and I do not recommend trying to see what it feels like. This is a road you’ll be happy to sidestep. I just saw a video on YouTube about these pathetic dopers sitting on the sidewalk with little tin foils between their fingertips in Seattle. Same thing thirty years ago with black tar. Some people can’t learn from others’ mistakes. Do yourself a huge favor and don’t go down that path. Opium is a big step in that direction.

https://youtu.be/sKcStAEZYUo

7Wannabe5
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Ego wrote:Exactly. And the circular nature is incredible. Striving for status symbols has created such distress that it must be dampened with drug and drink and endorphins. Increasingly, the drug and drink and endorphin of choice has itself become the status symbol. Payments for the Peloton Tread (mill) and the Equinox gym combined with the instructor bragging about the good bottle of wine she downed last night and the boxed vegan dinner she had delivered are the very things that keeps them on the treadmill.
Yup. There is a frugal solution, but in my experience (which may be somewhat unique to me), it requires about 4 hours/day of free time devoted to moderate physical exercise/exertion, being in nature, having fun/playing in my juvenile masculine energy, and relaxing in my feminine energy while experiencing my sexuality or other healthy aspects of sensuality. Since I also prefer to have around 4 hours/day to devote to reading at random and/or similar intellectual explorations, a full-time job is pretty much precluded if I want a lifestyle that produces physical-fitness-status-symbols in a truly healthy manner AND a lifestyle that is in alignment with my purpose/preferences.
Sclass wrote:Had no idea of the fit doper connection for females. Now I’m second guessing all the gals I know who have it all.
Females have all sorts of "secrets" both "girlish" and "womanish." In "Detransition, Baby", the male to female transexual protagonist muses on how the experiences of recently divorced middle-aged women are of interest and value to those in transition to female, because mid-life divorce often causes women to have to reclaim their "girlish" natures after years of being more in their "womanish" nature.
chenda wrote:I'd like to try opium, what was it like ?
I'm not the person to ask. I don't do depressive drugs or drink alcohol, because I do not often enough enjoy the experience and have extremely poor tolerance. I do enjoy some stimulant drugs such as caffeine and sugar. My 1980s white suburban girl cheap/efficient trick to achieve/maintain weight loss was OTC formulations of ephedra combined with riding an exercise bike while wearing sweat-suit made out of Hefty bags. Then I would lie headfirst down a staircase to zip myself into the tightest possible pair of designer jeans (trick I learned from some tough, older Catholic school girls) before heading out to the roller skating rink.

Anesau
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by Anesau »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Sat May 06, 2023 7:57 am
The cute white suburban girls with high SAT scores at my high school lived on coffee and aspirin with the occasional use of syrup of ipecac before bikini season.
Wait, what??? Your entire comment seems wild to me.

I was in the suburban high-SAT group ~a decade ago, and this would shock me. I knew a couple girls with anorexia, but I didn't know any bulimics. Mostly, I'm wondering at the inclusion of aspirin in this group. Are you calling out girls that use it ~monthly for period pain, or was there some more exciting performance-enhancing use for aspirin that I missed out on? Though I guess I didn't have any friends that were all three of white, female, and popular (as proxy for cute), so maybe it's just the wrong comparison.

I don't personally know anyone who uses weed/vapes/Ritalin. Maybe I'm just unusually sheltered, even through college & as an adult. I feel like your comment was written from a completely different culture, even though we're both in the U.S. (relevant SSC)

zbigi
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by zbigi »

Anesau wrote:
Tue May 09, 2023 3:59 pm
Are you calling out girls that use it ~monthly for period pain, or was there some more exciting performance-enhancing use for aspirin that I missed out on?
Combination of ephedrine, caffeine, and aspirin is used for weight loss. I've tried it once when I was young and stupid, and it was very effective. Perhaps the girls were trying only two of the three?

See: https://www.healthline.com/health/eca-s ... erformance.

sky
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by sky »

jacob wrote:
Fri May 05, 2023 1:43 pm
Insofar I could walk down the street with my own bowl, fill it without waiting by paying $1/1000kcal, and walk right back two minutes later, I'd do that everyday no questions asked. That's like my dream food-scenario.

I wonder what it would take to implement this in the US or if it would even be possible...
Robotic solar powered vending machine that takes the frozen burrito of your choice, microwaves it, and delivers it to your waiting bowl in less than 60 seconds. Ingredients scientifically designed for maximum health benefit and nutritional value, and prepared in a single vast, nationwide, entirely automated food processing plant near Yuma, AZ, flash frozen, and delivered by robot navigated trucks with automated vending machine refill devices.

sky
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by sky »

guitarplayer wrote:
Sat May 06, 2023 8:13 am
It's either I am very detached from mainstream society or I need to go the the US for an anthropology field trip.
After experiencing Detroit in the 1980s, every other place in the world seems boring in comparison.

Frita
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by Frita »

zbigi wrote:
Wed May 10, 2023 2:27 am
Ephedrine was banned in the US in 2004.
In 1986 I used to study with a gal who suddenly died of a heart attack induced by an ephedrine cocktail. She was heavyset so I assume that she was not a habitual user.

ffj
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by ffj »

One of my best friends lost his older brother the other day. The brother would start his day by drinking light beer non-stop until his working pharmacist wife would arrive home and then they would together polish off at least 3 bottles of wine every night. Well now he's dead and hopefully his alcoholic wife will find the way to change her habits. Imagine if she was your pharmacist.

It is beyond depressing how many people are dependent on legal and illegal drugs on a daily basis. Either to gain a competitive edge or numb whatever pain (physical and emotional) they are feeling. They are literally prisoners.

Please people if you want to see the wonderful effects of drugs then do a few ride alongs on an ambulance in any city. You'll get to see plenty of over-doses, people that have literally drunk themselves to death, pick up the girl that has been raped after she has become blotto drunk at a party, the drunk driver that has just killed somebody and the person that has shot himself in the head because of his addictions. And you'll get to see the very close relationship between mental illness and substance abuse.

It'll sober you right up. :cry:


Regarding the OP:

When I started in the workforce the minimum wage was $3.35/hour. Imagine working a full day for around $20 after taxes. But I am now wealthy in every sense of the word.

You have two things on your side: you are young and you are intelligent. If you make good decisions on a daily basis, opportunities will present themselves. Take advantage of them and slowly distance yourself from dependent living.

I know this advice is vague but your attitude should be never to lose, and that is merely paying attention to fundamentals of finance while continuously finding ways to game any system that is designed to remove money from your account while simultaneously nurturing any positive returns in your life. I could list many examples but I think you get the point.

7Wannabe5
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Anesau wrote:I was in the suburban high-SAT group ~a decade ago, and this would shock me. I knew a couple girls with anorexia, but I didn't know any bulimics. Mostly, I'm wondering at the inclusion of aspirin in this group. Are you calling out girls that use it ~monthly for period pain, or was there some more exciting performance-enhancing use for aspirin that I missed out on? Though I guess I didn't have any friends that were all three of white, female, and popular (as proxy for cute), so maybe it's just the wrong comparison.
Well, I was in high school in the early 1980s, so it was a somewhat different culture. According to this history of eating disorders:
https://www.eatingrecoverycenter.com/bl ... rs-history
1977 - Bulimia (binging and purging by exercise, vomiting or using laxatives) cases rapidly rose during the 1970s and 1980s in the U.S., England, France and Germany.
The 1980s was very much a decade in which Americans were concerned with superficial displays of success. So, displaying as thin and fashionably dressed, like spokesmodel for the era Brooke Shields, or any of the other early teens fashion models of the era was the goal. I also did some shoplifting in the early 80s, when I was around 14, even though my middle-class parents provided me with a clothing allowance and I made money babysitting, because my thinking was "the adults have created this terrible culture and trapped me in it with compulsory education, so this is what I must do to survive." But, by the time I was a Junior/Senior in high school, I was completely checked out of the scene and becoming frugal. I stopped spending money on fashion, and was kind of known for making "shocking" comments like "Why bother? Men only care what you look like naked." :lol: (Not true, but still a fairly good philosophy/practice in my experience. Best practice being getting in touch with your own authentic aesthetic and considering how best to creatively "afford" it.)

Anyways, we weren't allowed to drink coffee at my high school, so we would pop Excedrin which contained a mix of caffeine and aspirin at lunch time. I was severely asthmatic as a child, so I took ephedrine formulation in order to run track in 8th grade, and noticed its potential for appetite suppression. One thing that may have made your experience different than mine, was I noted that you mentioned that you look very young on another post, and I was an early bloomer who was already 5'9" 135 and curvy in the 8th grade. I started getting hit on by men in their 20s when I was 13, and started sleeping with them when I was 15. Birth control was less readily available in my era, so I actually used to help some of my friends who were more "freak" than "geek" by making rhythm charts for avoiding pregnancy. Also, I am the oldest of 4 sisters, so I probably give off the vibe of being somebody other women can confide in. My daughter's friends used to be pretty open with me too (much to my daughter's annoyance.) My early 30s daughter's friends tend towards nerdy, very well-educated, hipster, artists, academics, and they definitely have vaped, smoked pot, used Ritilan, and gotten prescriptions for just the right formulation of birth control and anti-depressants to clear their skin, perk them up, and reduce bloating, etc. etc. etc. Same holds true for my niece who is in her mid-20s, and is a professional dancer in music videos (not so nerdy.)

American culture, especially on college campuses and in upper-middle class suburbs, has shifted more towards the Green from the Orange, since the 1980s. So, eating disorders have also become more politically "correct" than in my youth. It's not "good" to simply flaunt being skinnier and richer than anybody else in the room, so the focus is more on being "healthy" and "concerned." The eating disorders that are prevalent now are more in tune with this trend. Othorexia nervosa - obsession with food purity or "fixation on righteous or "healthful" eating", and anorexia athletica (obsession with exercise) have been on the rise, and some studies report an incidence as high as 25% on college campuses. IOW, because it's no longer "cool" to actually try to look thin&rich, the upper-middle-class now tries to look more "healthy/socially-conscious/athletic", but it pretty much amounts to the same thing in terms of signaling, even for those who are too naive to be fully aware of their field of motivation.

Anesau
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by Anesau »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Wed May 10, 2023 9:12 am
I feel a little bad for contributing to derailing this thread so hard, but I'm just fascinated with this whole setup. Your world sounds completely alien to mine... I don't hear much about my older family's high school years, so it's strange to hear your experience in a forum from a real person and not just from a character in a book.

For comparison, if you're interested -- my generation had easy birth control I think, but my family is Catholic, so none of us were allowed to get it. Didn't matter much for us though. My parents had the opposite problem a lot of parents of teens complain about in that only one of my siblings dated at all before graduating college. We had no curfew or anything.

I went to two different high schools. I don't remember my first (small Catholic) high school's position on caffeine, but the "rebel" thing to do there was smoke weed in the parking lot. My second (large public) high school had vending machines around school that sold caffeinated energy drinks, and the "rebel" thing to do was vape in the bathrooms. The girls I knew that were anorexic had other mental health stuff going on -- I don't think it was for physical appearance. I can definitely think of some people my age who might qualify for orthorexia, though.

Rumor was the most common illicit drugs on my college campus were amphetamines (probably partially from abused ADHD prescriptions), but I didn't first-hand know anyone that took them.

Overall, I've known a lot of people some combination of attractive, smart, and successful, and none of them have done anything illicit, so my experience is pretty much opposite your observation of successful people on drugs. It definitely happens, just not in whatever bubble I'm living in.

--

As a side note, @ffj, something like that worked for me. A while ago I went to an area with a kava/kratom bar with the intent of trying it out. But before going in, I spent a couple hours chatting with a very nice homeless guy hanging out in the area, which led to me meeting a different homeless guy who seemed to be disconnected from reality. It was a very quick way to end any interest I had in trying drugs.
Last edited by Anesau on Wed May 10, 2023 7:46 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Kriegsspiel
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by Kriegsspiel »

Frita wrote:
Wed May 10, 2023 7:50 am
Ephedrine was banned in the US in 2004.

In 1986 I used to study with a gal who suddenly died of a heart attack induced by an ephedrine cocktail. She was heavyset so I assume that she was not a habitual user.
FWIW, you can still buy ephedrine (as Bronkaid & Primatene) at the major pharmacies. They just keep it behind the counter now.

TopHatFox
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by TopHatFox »

What happened to this thread lol, bunch a' druggies up in here

chenda
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by chenda »

For the record I don't take drugs other than alcohol and caffeine. I dabbled a bit in other stuff when I was younger but the experiences were underwhelming and not something I ever got into.

Edited late night ramblings.

7Wannabe5
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by 7Wannabe5 »

Anesau wrote:Overall, I've known a lot of people some combination of attractive, smart, and successful, and none of them have done anything illicit, so my experience is pretty much opposite your observation of successful people on drugs. It definitely happens, just not in whatever bubble I'm living in.
I was doubting my own perspective, so I talked with my DD32 about the topic, and she confirmed my take on "Upper-middle-class Pilates Moms who drink wine." She also said that because her generation can actually make money through performative signaling, the trend may even becoming worse.

However, bringing the thread back to original topic, it's not really about illicit substance, or even legal substances such as wine. It's about status, competition, signaling, stress, life itself, and the ultimate (including hidden) costs of whatever coping mechanisms are employed to deal with the stress life must bring to all of us, unless we are actually living in a box lined with cotton. For instance, I recently read a novel in which the observation was made that wealthy WASPs think any problem can be cured with sports and alcohol. The Jewish stereotype would be more like any problem can be cured with food and talk. Any and all coping mechanisms may become problematic and expensive (not in alignment with frugality!) if taken to extremes.

So, if you consider the micro-culture which is the socio-economic-generational-regional-etc. bubble in which you live, and you FITB for your micro-culture for the statement: "Any problem can be solved with _____ and ______.", you might reveal the coping mechanisms that could become problematic or expensive. OTOH, it might be the case that the bubble itself is the coping mechanism in which the problems and expenses are hidden, and you and your friends are living in a "doll house" version of the real world in which problems are really just simulations of problems.

jacob
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by jacob »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu May 11, 2023 7:04 am
[...] for your micro-culture for the statement: "Any problem can be solved with _____ and ______.", you might reveal the coping mechanisms [...]
That is the most brilliant/useful insight/tool I've heard in a long time; connecting "when all you have is a hammer ..." with coping. Subcultures do indeed tend to believe in just a few universal approaches and thus tend to [mis]apply them everywhere and in particular use them to cope with other issues. The misapplication doesn't need to be vectorized towards expensive. It could be anything that doesn't solve the problem or causes another one.

Anesau
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by Anesau »

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu May 11, 2023 7:04 am
So, if you consider the micro-culture which is the socio-economic-generational-regional-etc. bubble in which you live, and you FITB for your micro-culture for the statement: "Any problem can be solved with _____ and ______.", you might reveal the coping mechanisms that could become problematic or expensive. OTOH, it might be the case that the bubble itself is the coping mechanism in which the problems and expenses are hidden, and you and your friends are living in a "doll house" version of the real world in which problems are really just simulations of problems.
I second this being very useful. The first time I read it it annoyed me, but now that I've thought about it a bit and come back to it, I think you're much more correct than I initially expected. Pretty sure my bubble's blanks would be "fiction" and "(video/board) games"... like wine, it doesn't solve any problems, but it does successfully numb the real world. If the problem is the doll house problem, I don't currently have whatever skill it takes to see outside of it. Need to think more on this.

Walwen
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by Walwen »

My own experiences to add onto the pile:

My grandfather was shocked at how high minimum wage is in my state. He said he made, I don't remember anymore, like 6 dollars a day at his first job. I asked him how much McDonalds was. He said, well, they didn't have McDonalds, but you could go to the local burger restaurant and get a burger and drink for twenty cents.
Image You could buy 6 big macs per 1 hour of minimum wage work in 1980.... and not afford a single one, today!

Re: drugs. Smoking is out among my generation. Vaping is in and is perceived as much, much safer, based almost purely simply on "smoke smell bad, vape smell like bubblegum." Vape pens can also be snuck within a sleeve and hit even in class, or effortlessly in the hall and bathrooms between classes. In high school I'd say up to 40% vaped regularly and almost everyone had tried it. Weed, ADHD drugs, and Xanax were the next big three. Followed by cocaine, but I never really saw people on coke in class like you saw them stoned or clearly on prescription stimulants- coke was for parties. I also knew people that were using hard drugs like meth and crack in middle school and high school, but their parents/relatives also did too.

My first day of ROTC, all the older guys were comparing their gym gains and openly talking about their steroid use. Some of the girls openly admitted to using them too. If it wasn't anabolic steroids, it was the technically legal SARMS. And I definitely heard some unhealthy diet regimes/using drugs for appetite suppression etc. A few guys had the obvious puffy unnatural look, but most of them just.... looked like athletes. I'd estimate at least half of the men were on steroids or SARMS, and just about everyone used supplements such as creatine, protein powders, pre-workout, etc.

Pain pills weren't much of a thing- pain pills are a ghetto thing. Kids buying drugs off each other in high school didn't have much access to that unless they lived in those neighborhoods.

Now that I work with the homeless, well, I think our rate is about 80% have active drug or alcohol issues. It gets demoralizing to be around so many people that are high and drunk all the time. I am pretty straight-edge, although I'm not against conscious and well-thought out recreational usage. It's not really the drug's fault. Literal meth is still prescribed for narcolepsy and fentanyl is important for surgical and cancer pain. Most people who drink aren't alcoholics or binge-drinkers. The question isn't really "Why are there drugs?" but "why do people become addicted and abuse drugs?" All my opinions.

In terms of ""Any problem can be solved with _____ and ______.", I think for my own life, it would definitely be "deciding the grapes are sour anyways" and "staying at home in free places online instead." Balancing saving my money now for future goals against the opportunity costs is a big problem for me. Do I spend 1.5k now to get a certification, or not? Do I buy 200 in art materials to develop my portfolio for jury submission? The cop out is to just decide I don't want to learn that new instrument, I don't want to apply for that gallery anyways, it probably wouldn't work out, the money is better spent towards my future, and I can get entertainment for free anyways...

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Ego
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by Ego »

Big Macs were not fifty cents in 1980.

ETA, I haven't been into a McDonalds in years but apparently they are $4.89 today at the McDonalds near here.

theanimal
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by theanimal »

The minimum wage is also the legislative minimum, not the market minimum. As of 2021, the percentage of people in the labor force at or below minimum wage is 1.4%. Since sometime during the pandemic, I have constantly seen ads at about every store throughout town from the local hardware supplier to McDonalds to Wal Mart with starting wages at $15-20 for low skill, entry positions. This is in a town without strong economic prospects. From what I've heard and read, this is not unique to my area/state. So I don't think it would be unfair to say that the market minimum is somewhere near double the federal minimum, or $15/hr, which on an annual is not far off the total of the median earnings for an individual in the US of $37,500/yr.

I would be curious what jobs are at or below federal minimum wage. My guess would be much of the restaurant industry, jobs that have a higher proportion of tips (like tourism) and seasonal stuff like farm labor.

chenda
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Re: EVERYTHING Too $$$ Now

Post by chenda »

I expect undocumented labour has risen a lot since 1980 as well.

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