People who are already retired: why do you something, instead of nothing?

[zbigi]

See the question in the title. Of course, it only pertains to people who actually do something demanding - engage in some sort of hobby etc. I'm struggling with this question myself, and am curious what are motivations that are driving people to extert themselves, when they don't have to do it.

[Ego]

The ability to do nothing is a skill possessed by those who, as Franklin said, "die at 25 and aren't buried until 75."

[zbigi]

The ability to do nothing is a skill possessed by those who, as Franklin said, "die at 25 and aren't buried until 75."

Most people were never similar to Franklin (not even in childhood), so he would say they were born already dead? Thus, IMO it makes more sense to believe that Franklin was a mega outlier, and not that most people are defective.

[Ego]

The mind is a remarkable thing. If it does not have sufficiently complex problems to solve, it will get very good at creating them.

[chenda]

The mind is a remarkable thing. If it does not have sufficiently complex problems to solve, it will get very good at creating them.

This may be one of the underlying causes of the mental health epidemic.

[Frita]

This may be one of the underlying causes of the mental health epidemic.

Yes and look at the higher incidence of mental health challenges in countries like the US.

Yesterday I did an all-day, solo meditation retreat as a personal hard reset. The first couple hours of stillness were predictably painful until I reremembered that everything changes. So I guess I was technically doing nothing.

[jacob]

Aside from the standard trope about internal and external motivation (see https://earlyretirementextreme.com/lack ... ation.html ), @AxelHeyst has used the concept of tension. If tension exists, there's a drive to resolve it. Or by modus tollens, if there's no drive, there's no tension.

This also explains why people may go looking for tension in whichever form it may take (trouble, disagreement, not being able to pay rent,...). Indeed, it explains why people who have meditated themselves to a state of unitive acceptance of the universe are seldomly very motivated towards changing anything. This also goes for getting older. As life gets resolved, there's increasingly less drive to resolve anything. Only way out of this is to either resolve at a slower rate (stay at your job for 20 more years than needed) or INCREASE your world. Methinks retirement really is about increasing one's world.

Much of the current philosophical brouhaha with postmodernism is that with people being freed from worrying about food, shelter, and safety, they suddenly became aware of higher stages in Maslow's pyramid like belonging, esteem, and actualization; something that humans have not had much of any tradition of having to think about much less consider important. There are simply not that many people who have answers to these questions. If you're brave enough to leave Plato's Cave, you're mostly on your own. This is why many choose to stay in the cave and avoid cutting all their chains in order to do so.

[7Wannabe5]

Well, nobody can really do nothing. What looks like "nothing" is usually more like maintenance activities being performed very slowly. For instance, walking up the driveway to get the mail becomes an "event" in the life of many retired humans. Benjamin Franklin was an ENTP, and ENTPs generally do not do so well at devoting themselves to nothing but slow-motion maintenance routines. We're always scanning the horizon for something new to get the Christmas Tree lights that show up on our brain scans twinkling. Anybody who is not interested in learning and trying new things seems like they are "dead" to an ENTP.

[unemployable]

as Franklin said, "die at 25 and aren't buried until 75."

I researched this once and it seems no evidence exists that Franklin said or wrote this. More likely it's something the internet decided to attribute to him.

This also goes for getting older. As life gets resolved, there's increasingly less drive to resolve anything.

This is often because you run out of things to resolve. Basically you succeed. Paying the bills? Solved. Place to live? Got that. Trying new things? Personally the freshness and excitement of new experiences doesn't hit at 50 the same way it hit at 20. And then you're a 50-year-old surrounded by 20-year-olds; nobody wants that. Why do you have to keep doing new things, anyway? No Internet bulletin board is forcing you to keep your score, which I say as a guy with a voluntary "retirement scoreboard".

Anyway, I quit my job expressly to do other things: hike, camp, travel, explore. Thirteen years later I've done most of the stuff I wanted to do and have far less motivation or ambition to do much more, although I wouldn't say 100% less. Have to drag myself out of bed, convince myself you don't get too many nice spring days like today and so on. I'm older and my body isn't what it was even three years ago, so my original insight, that the things I wanted to do at 39 won't be available or interesting to me at normal "retirement age", has proven true.

[AxelHeyst]

push: because death is the hunter, and I can hear her footsteps.

pull: because things can be better dammit.

eta: this post from simon sarris feels mildly relevant.

[IlliniDave]

For me it's all about balance. I do quite a lot that most people would consider 'doing nothing', and quite a lot of what feels to me like 'doing something'.

I thought about this years before I actually retired. I have lists and fish bone diagrams of all the things (that I can still remember) I told myself over the years I wanted to do 'someday'. The highest priority ones I have in place, the rest are mainly for the eventuality what I'm doing now becomes not enough.

For me the biggest draw to retirement was the way I framed it for myself: The opportunity to do things I want to do without the constraints inherent to full-time employment (the path I used to get to retirement, there are other ways to skin that cat).

Are the things I do 'demanding'? Maybe, although compared to many here I'm probably just a big goof off. I just do what makes me feel alive because it's hard for me to separate that from the point of living.

[Humanofearth]

Because doing nothing is the most depressing thing imaginable.

I saw some doc of a lady living off the grid, she said her routine is what kept her sane.

We all have routines for sanity’s sake.

I wake up, clean up, breathe, journal, eat mostly protein, “work” for an hour or 2, gym/physical therapy, work/socialize & eat out, fail at sleeping early.

Often feels like not doing much while still being very full. Every part of the day, particularly socializing, is essential to me. And also, at my young age, essential to not do consumptive activities that future human would get no benefit from: watching almost any video media alone, scrolling, trading outside system, smoking, etc. Other activities I thought would be more destructive (mostly sleeping late or eating out) are beneficial in social contexts focused on protein/water.

We’re all humans here, we’ve always done something. Those that don’t tend to either be deeply at peace or trainwrecks. If the latter, it hopefully motivates a change and healthier behavior. Probably a routine. Like what work offers you. So retirement just allows us to better pick our own routines. Once we bore of travel and novelty, or make it a routine because it’s simply our lifestyle.

* strongly agree with IDave & Unemployable’s points

[C40]

doing nothing = depression

[7Wannabe5]

Trying new things? Personally the freshness and excitement of new experiences doesn't hit at 50 the same way it hit at 20. And then you're a 50-year-old surrounded by 20-year-olds; nobody wants that. Why do you have to keep doing new things, anyway?

It's really not necessary to hang out with 20 year olds to try new things. Older humans do often get "locked" into their previously achieved realms of competence and comfort, but these realms may vary. For instance, it would be pretty damn hard for me to convince your average 65 year old guy to take a class with me to learn a brand new skill*, but I can hang out with three different 65 year old guys who are comfortable in their already achieved mastery of 3 different skills, such as welding, sailing, or non-profit foundation formation, any or all of which might be relatively "new to me", so fun to learn about.

*Yet, relatively quite easy for me to convince average 65 year old female friend to do this. I think this is because women are generally less likely to be concerned with maintaining dominance.

[ducknald_don]

If you can avoid TV and the internet then I suspect it is going to be quite hard to actually do nothing.

[ffj]

The drive one has to exhibit to retire early just doesn't disappear once you've achieved your goal. The discipline, the intelligence, the creativity, and the grit that got you to a position of having a choice will still need an outlet post-retirement.

The other issue for me at least is that you want to feel relevant, even if you don't have a job. That could be as simple as helping out your neighbors or volunteering some of your past skills. Or doing the occasional paid job. Growing the perfect tomato, whatever is fulfilling.

As I have aged, I've carefully watched people older than me and how they've faired in life. Clearly the winners as far as quality of life and longevity are the ones that had a purpose in life and moved their body. Sitting in a chair playing soduko and solving cross-word puzzles are for the people waiting to die.

[Sclass]

I get nervous if I do nothing. I think it’s a survival thing. Likely preprogrammed by evolution.

A lot of my work years and school years I tried to distract myself with escapism and procrastination. Now I kind of do the opposite. No work means I have to create it. There is a void that needs to be filled. An infinite ATM card (with daily withdrawal limits of course) isn’t enough.

[zbigi]

If you can avoid TV and the internet then I suspect it is going to be quite hard to actually do nothing.

But then, the question becomes - why avoid it? TV and Facebook are probably how most retirees spend most of their lives around here in Poland (at least during the crappy months - when it's nice outside, a lot of them have tiny summer houses, allotment plots etc. and putter around in their gardens). I guess, if it gets tiring after a while, one could set up a regiment for oneself where they try out different things, hoping to find something that will engage them. However, if one's job didn't suck all that much, it may be easier to just return to it - it will provide some engagement, plus money on top. It's certainly more comfortable than a potential frustrating multi-year search. The preference for either option probably depends on one's temperament (e.g. emotional stability - how well one handles uncertainty, frustration etc.).

[jacob]

But then, the question becomes - why avoid it?

It's like asking people who are already FI why they keep working?
Either they like what they're doing or they don't have the imagination/resources/connections to do anything else.

Freedom-from and freedom-to are different orientations.

[AxelHeyst]

However, if one's job didn't suck all that much, it may be easier to just return to it - it will provide some engagement, plus money on top. It's certainly more comfortable than a potential frustrating multi-year search. The preference for either option probably depends on one's temperament (e.g. emotional stability - how well one handles uncertainty, frustration etc.).

+1 to temperament. A potentially frustrating multi-year search sounds more 'comfortable' to me than being comfortable... which is to say that the idea of being comfortable for longer than a day or two makes my skin crawl.

It might have to do with self-managed expectations. If the explicit or implicit desired outcome is to find a stable, comfortable life, then a multi-year search through alternative/unconventional life paths is unnecessary. There are already proven scripts for stable and comfortable (including tradFI), do those.

If the explicit or implicit desired outcome is a destination-less journey of discovery, creation, invention, with all that entails (repeated failure, ostracization, being misunderstood by almost everyone, etc), then almost literally anything except for the standard scripts is advisable.

If you are doing weird things, but hoping for stable and comfortable, you will be disappointed. If you are doing standard things, but hoping for weird, you will be disappointed. If the desired outcome is implicit/not completely acknowledged, then this will feel like tension, frustration, desperation, confusion, etc.